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Is this really a 64?
Onedollarnohollar
Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
ms64?
Testing my grading skills. Saw this tonight on the bay. I'm looking at the details in Lady Liberty's hair, the flattened date, its overall look, and I'm not seeing a 64. Please enlighten me as to what I am
missing in my evaluation.
Testing my grading skills. Saw this tonight on the bay. I'm looking at the details in Lady Liberty's hair, the flattened date, its overall look, and I'm not seeing a 64. Please enlighten me as to what I am
missing in my evaluation.
0
Comments
scans, blah
probably ok as a 64 but scans can be trixy
i'd like to see that grimy/toned surface in-hand!
.
grade. Judging the skin, luster and such is a lot more difficult with a pic.
That being said, please study the characteristics of the '21 Peace. Lack of hair detail with reverse weak
eagle and flat numerals are the norm. Not indicative of wear. '21 Peace dollars are a breed of their own.
Like any dollar please look at the cheek, the fields and the luster and then you'll be better to judge
the grade.
good luck,
bob
I wouldn't worry about the date though, I think it looks warn just from the picture.
Just my 2 cents.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
<< <i>It doesn't look like a problem coin, just something with pretty ugly toning. I do agree that it's not an MS64. Look how dull and worn out the hear is. I'd give it an AU58, at very best.. >>
Not saying you're wrong necessarily. I don't think that coin should be a 64 either. Assuming the crappy scan makes it look worse than it does in hand,
the hair is flat because of the super weak strike that is common with this date.
I see what looks to be a big scar on the cheek and potentialy a roll mark leading right down to it.
There are multiple little rim bruises and another fairly large ding on the obverse rays above her head.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
For some reason these 'no lustre' heavily (originally) toned coins are the ones I like to buy.
Too bad the lack of luster gets a huge knock at the grading companies.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>ugly regardless of grade >>
I'd still prefer this over a dipped out example and feel it's prettier then Snooki
Does it have any lustre?
.....................................................
<< <i>.
scans, blah
probably ok as a 64 but scans can be trixy
i'd like to see that grimy/toned surface in-hand!
. >>
I really don't think the scans do this coin any favors and would also like to see it in-hand . . .
With that said, I think much nicer '21s can be found for 700 bucks ! ! !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>It doesn't look like a problem coin, just something with pretty ugly toning. I do agree that it's not an MS64. It's normal for '21's to have worn hair, but I think this one's way too obviously worn out, and you'd need to make quite a stretch in your argument to call it a 64. I'd prob give it an AU58. Heck, my 58 has more detail than this, lol.
I wouldn't worry about the date though, I think it looks warn just from the picture.
Just my 2 cents. >>
Just so that it's clear to Onedollar, the flat central area in Liberty's hair and the lack of definition on the center of the eagle is NOT an indication of wear. These coins were made in high-relief and did not strike up properly. All of the 1921s in existence were minted in just four days at the end of December. Because of the relief of the design and high pressures required, die life was incredibly short. The operators compromised by reducing the striking force to prolong die life. As a result, 95-98% of 1921 Peace Dollars are struck with incomplete center details. Even coins in MS67 holders usually show poor central detail in the hair.
If you're looking for wear on a Peace Dollar, the best places to look are the point of the Eagle's shoulder and the truncation of Liberty's neck. Luster breaks over high points like the center of the cheek, jawline, and neck can also reveal wear.
From the photos provided, I'd be unwilling to make any guess as to the appropriate grade. Most likely it's graded appropriately, but there's no way to know. 1921s in MS64 are VERY easy to find. Take your time and pick out a good one. There's no reason to take a risk here.
<< <i>Just so that it's clear to Onedollar, the flat central area in Liberty's hair and the lack of definition on the center of the eagle is NOT an indication of wear. These coins were made in high-relief and did not strike up properly. All of the 1921s in existence were minted in just four days at the end of December. Because of the relief of the design and high pressures required, die life was incredibly short. The operators compromised by reducing the striking force to prolong die life. As a result, 95-98% of 1921 Peace Dollars are struck with incomplete center details. Even coins in MS67 holders usually show poor central detail in the hair.
If you're looking for wear on a Peace Dollar, the best places to look are the point of the Eagle's shoulder and the truncation of Liberty's neck. Luster breaks over high points like the center of the cheek, jawline, and neck can also reveal wear.
From the photos provided, I'd be unwilling to make any guess as to the appropriate grade. Most likely it's graded appropriately, but there's no way to know. 1921s in MS64 are VERY easy to find. Take your time and pick out a good one. There's no reason to take a risk here. >>
Thanks for clarifying- I def. learned something new. Perhaps I was a bit harder than I should have been on this particular coin- the reverse looks pretty good and the neck on the obverse does as well. Perhaps it's hard to see from the picture, so I expect people to take a grain of salt when I say this- but the coin still doesn't look too impressive for an MS64. I think there are plenty of better ones (MS63 especially) out there, and would agree in advising against taking a risk.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
<< <i>I know I'm in the minority here, but these are the coins that I love to collect.
For some reason these 'no lustre' heavily (originally) toned coins are the ones I like to buy.
Too bad the lack of luster gets a huge knock at the grading companies. >>
I agree!
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
because they were very mark free for the grade. Marks were about as important as luster. Today, luster has leapt ahead of marks in many cases. Collectors have been told
to appreciate white, blasty, dipped coins. Dealers have followed suit because this is what collectors are thinking they must buy. I sort of agree with DE here.
This coin should have ok luster but it will be weak. It will have no real offending marks. I still think it's a 64 coin today but probably would never cross or get a sticker. This
particular look is frowned upon today. Still, I prefer original brownish coins like this than the dipped out ones. So shoot me. Yes, it's a real 64...but probably not so marketable
for a 64 price these days. I don't need to grade the coin but just have to know when it was graded to know what this coin will look like in hand. I sold a ton of NGC coins back
then with this same orig brown/blackish look... from MS64/65 bust half dimes to MS64/65 silver dollars. To some extent I specialized in buying coins like this for 62 and 63 money
and sending them to NGC for upgrades. That game doesn't work today. But, this is a 64 coin. I think the originality ads to the charm. It's not ugly to me. But I'm in a very tiny
minority these days. This is how an orig ch unc 1921 Peace Dollar, 1917 T.1 quarter, or 1917 Merc dime is supposed to look from that era. Most of what you see today are once
or twice dipped coins. And that's what 90% of the market prefers and pays for. This particular Peace dollar probably has C eye appeal, A on marks, C on luster, and B on strike.
Good luck finding an originally toned 64 AAAA coin vs. this 64 CCAB.
I have a 63 in a PCGS holder that looks much better than that.
Maybe I'll try to get CAC to put a sticker on it.