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MrEureka strikes out again!
MrEureka
Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
Went to this auction today and came home with nothing.
1796 Half Cent
Amazingly, I counted 7 bidders - 4 in the room and 3 on the phone - that were willing to pay north of $200,000 for the coin.
1796 Half Cent
Amazingly, I counted 7 bidders - 4 in the room and 3 on the phone - that were willing to pay north of $200,000 for the coin.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Man, what would the toning look like if this had've been a silver coin!
Sorry you lost out Mr. E. Maybe next millenium.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
More seriously, do you think the owner maximized the price? Or do you think the price would have been higher (or lower) if the coin was encapsulated and sold by, say Heritage or Bowers/Stacks?
<< <i>Big whoop. You lose the auction, you return home with 0. But if you had won the auction, you would have returned home with only 0.5¢ more. Hardly worth starting a thread about...
More seriously, do you think the owner maximized the price? Or do you think the price would have been higher (or lower) if the coin was encapsulated and sold by, say Heritage or Bowers/Stacks? >>
I would say it would have been lower. One just sold a few months ago as PCGS 64 for roughly 400 grand. The image doesn't do the coin justice if it is mint state and better than the 64. It wouldn't have been beneficial to pay 350 grand unless you could be fairly confident it would grade 64 or higher. Also when a new coin joins the pop report the value drops because it's now less rare at that condition. Essentially I'm saying, the owner got really lucky that bidding fever hit.
<< <i>Big whoop. You lose the auction, you return home with 0. But if you had won the auction, you would have returned home with only 0.5¢ more. Hardly worth starting a thread about...
More seriously, do you think the owner maximized the price? Or do you think the price would have been higher (or lower) if the coin was encapsulated and sold by, say Heritage or Bowers/Stacks? >>
I'm still baffled as to why it didn't sell in the US. They almost certainly would realize (at least) the same if not much more from accessibility of viewing. It wouldn't at all surprise me if it's for sale again very soon with a major US auction house.
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>was the coin problem free Andy? >>
no kiddin. i'd love to see pro images of that baby. looks amazing from the images, especially if it is a rb
.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There's "no price too high" for freshness like this.
Just gotta keep the paddle raised until it's yours....damn the potted plant....all ahead full....max bids ahead.
Let us know how the winning bidder fares at PCGS or NGC. Could make for an interesting conclusion as there are so few coins like this now showing up in auctions.
Still I'd say that over $358,000 was all the money for that piece. It does have some red, but not enough to be an R&B, and if it grades below MS-63, I think the price was might high, especially for a raw coin.
Would it have brought more in the USA? I'd say it's 50/50.
Problem-free? Yes, absolutely. All of the crud on the surface looked like it would come off very easily.
BTW, the photo exaggerates the amount of red remaining on the coin. Still a beauty, though.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Mint state, though?
<< <i>BTW, the coin has appreciated roughly 8.75% a year since the day it was struck. >>
I work in fixed income. I tried to explain the numbers to my boss relating to an 09 vdb, a 1959, and a 2009. All were MS grade. If I remember correctly, the numbers were pretty similar ( I don't remember what compounding I used), but this was in 2009.
Edited to fix: I stand corrected Bill - it was dollars. OK, they know VERY LITTLE about American coins apparently...
<< <i>Looks like an extremely nice coin.
Mint state, though?
>>
High grade coins whose date starts with a "17" get an outomatic five bonus points.
<< <i>Looks like an extremely nice coin.
Mint state, though?
If that is the coin it is not Mint State. I'd grade it AU-55 or 58 depending upon the luster.
Here's a 1795 half cent in AU-58. It's not a rare date, but it is the same type.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>Looks like an extremely nice coin.
Mint state, though?
To be determined...
Still... $358,000.00 is
<< <i>sure hope the buyer doesn't mess with it looking for a higher grade
Of course he will - Andy already said the crud will easily come off. Raw coins are bought sometimes for how they WILL look, not how they DO look!
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW, the coin has appreciated roughly 8.75% a year since the day it was struck. >>
I work in fixed income. I tried to explain the numbers to my boss relating to an 09 vdb, a 1959, and a 2009. All were MS grade. If I remember correctly, the numbers were pretty similar ( I don't remember what compounding I used), but this was in 2009. >>
Doesn't say much for the Fed's fiat policies, eh.
<< <i>sure hope the buyer doesn't mess with it looking for a higher grade
He is going to have to mess with it to make back his investment. That look does not sell well.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like an extremely nice coin.
Mint state, though?
... >>
If that is the coin it is not Mint State. I'd grade it AU-55 or 58 depending upon the luster.
... >>
It is indeed the coin. I agree with you on the grade.
LINK
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>sure hope the buyer doesn't mess with it looking for a higher grade
He is going to have to mess with it to make back his investment. That look does not sell well. >>
It seems like it sold pretty well with that look. Maybe the buyer isn't seeing it as an investment but a collectible coin. Someone liked it as it was. If they see an improvement and greater profit by "restoration", it will eventually make the news. And if that attempt fails , it will make history. It would be left "as is" if it were in my possession. Isn't that how it got to where it is ?
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>Only age 20. It is an amazing story. >>
A lot of higher grade early American coins came from England. Bear in mind that there were almost no coin collectors in The United States prior to the mid 1850s. Many U.S. coins went to Europe and more specifically, England, where they were preserved in collections and accumulations. Over time these coins have been repatriated and now are often the better preserved examples of early U.S. coinage that we now have to collect. I have no doubt that some of these coins have sold for dirt cheap prices in England because some British people had no idea what they were worth. Think of it this way. You could have a rare date British coin and not know its worth unless you consulted a British numismatic price guide.
That may have been the case for this 1796 half cent. The 20 year old guy may have bought it as a common piece at a low price. Somehow I doubt that he went out and bought an American coin that then had a value of more $10,000 at the time at anything near that price. After all the auction house, which is supposed to know what it was doing, only estimated the hammer price to be $40,000 to $48,000.
This 1795 half dime was found among an accumulation of other lesser coins from one of those ubiquitous "little old ladies" who showed up with a purse or jar of coins at a shop in London. An American dealer who regularly goes to the England to buy British and other coins purchased it there. The piece probably was Mint State before it was tossed in the purse and rubbed with other coins which gave her a shiny nose. The dealer tried to get it into an MS holder several times, but finally gave up. I bought it in an AU-58 holder.
As footnore I will that one of the finest known 1794 silver dollars was bought back from England in the 1970s by the Ed Hilbert, a Madison, New Jersey coin dealer who died years ago. He sold the coin for something like $12,000, and the price has been zooming up since then.
Back to the coins. You mention conserve....can you be so kind as to elaborate? What do you think will be done as far as conservation to the coin? And can you post a picture of another old copper coin that is a good representation of what the coin MIGHT look like once conserved, as well as your potential grade estimate of the 1796 Half Cent
Thanks.
über ridiculously cool
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>MrEureka strikes out again! >>
Funny, I read this as "strikes out" meaning "set out on some new adventure".
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
At the least, the dust and grime that cover the coin will be removed. It's also possible that a protective coat of some sort will be applied to the coin after it has been "cleaned". I am not an expert on doctoring techniques, so I can't be any more specific about of this. As for the grade, I'd expect it to grade somewhere from 63 to 65. My own bid was at roughly 63+ money.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Was it fun striking out ? The fun would be placing the second bid but not the second to last. >>
MrEureka has more fun when he's the last man standing
<< <i>Back to the coins. You mention conserve....can you be so kind as to elaborate? What do you think will be done as far as conservation to the coin? And can you post a picture of another old copper coin that is a good representation of what the coin MIGHT look like once conserved, as well as your potential grade estimate of the 1796 Half Cent
At the least, the dust and grime that cover the coin will be removed. It's also possible that a protective coat of some sort will be applied to the coin after it has been "cleaned". I am not an expert on doctoring techniques, so I can't be any more specific about of this. As for the grade, I'd expect it to grade somewhere from 63 to 65. My own bid was at roughly 63+ money. >>
This is not doctoring. Copper coins are prone to gathering a moist surface grime from the atmosphere that detracts from the eye appeal of the piece, and over time can develop into corrosion and surface damage. In a damp place like England or Florida for that matter, this can be a real problem. Proper conservation and maintenance can remove this material and prevent it from forming. This is one of the reasons why copper collectors "CARE" and those goat hair brushes. The brushes can cause hairlines if you are not careful, but they can be a part of the copper maintenance cycle.
The steps outlined above are one of the reasons why so many copper collectors don't like slabs or even Capital Plastic holders. They are concerned about the maintenance of their collections, and believe that "naked" copper is better.
<< <i>Final grade: NGC MS66 BN >>
Of course, there could be many reasons for not buying the coin, considering the price, but I am curious what Andy and others thought this coin would grade. As a 66, it sounds like it was a "deal."
Tom
I'd say the reporter isn't a collector.
<< <i>Final grade: NGC MS66 BN >>
Looks like the finest graded
I graded it 64 at best. I don't know if it has been conserved, or if it looked any different when it was graded. Regardless, I did not see the potential in the coin that the buyer obviously did. Good for him!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.