die rotation

civilwarcoincollector

I have a 1861 three cent piece in my civil war collection that has a 180 degree rotation. Does anyone know if this is a common thing in this coin or what?
I like it but have no way right now to post a pic. I will try to get a scanner soon.
What does die rotation do to coin values if anything?

BillJones

In the old days die rotations didn't mean very much, but a few people seem to be enthralled with them. For early U.S. coins (1790s and early 1800s), it's not that unusual. For the later pieces they are bit more unusual.

The only piece I have is this 1861 gold dollar. The die rotation is noted in Dave Bowers' gold dollar book, and I bought it as something odd. I did not pay a premium, but I did spend some extra time when I bought it making sure that it is genuine.

Sonorandesertrat

I have seen 3-cent silver pieces with the medal orientation on a few occasions, and I also have an 1861 3CS with a 180 degree die rotation in my Dansco 7070 album. I bought it about 5 years ago, but did not pay a premium for the rotation. The recent book by Kevin Flynn and Winston Zack on three-cent silver pieces has some information on which dates have been found with this type of error. I wouldn't call these very rare, however.

MrHalfDime

I cannot speak with any authority about the three cent silvers, as it is not my series, but I find it very interesting that the OP has an 1861 three cent silver with 180º rotated dies, Bill Jones has an 1861 gold dollar with 180º rotated dies, and I have two examples of an 1861 half dime with 180º rotated dies. I wonder what was going on at the Philadelphia Mint in 1861 with small diameter coins? I, for one, pay a premium for rotated die half dimes, particularly if it is one that I have not previously seen. To date I have identified approximately 35 different Liberty Seated half dime varieties with substantial rotation of the dies.

Sonorandesertrat

These errors occurred in years other than 1861 too. I bought an 1853 arrows Seated dime with a rotated reverse (40 degrees CCW) last month; it graded PCGS 64.

BillJones

<< <i> I wonder what was going on at the Philadelphia Mint in 1861 with small diameter coins? >>



A couple of things -

First, the mint was slammed with higher mintages, especially for gold coins than they had seen in many years. The reason was that the Union Government thought at first it could pay for the "civil uprising" with gold. It quickly found out it couldn't, but not before every 1861 gold issue with the exception of the Three Dollar Gold Piece reached high levels.

Second, some of the more experienced employees were probably off training the Pennsylvania State Militia to go off to war. That left less experienced people to work the presses, who probably didn't keep an eye on them or were not fully aware of how to mount the dies. They either mounted them wrong or didn't take note if they rotated in the press. Certainly such rotations would have been less obvious on the small coins like the trime and one dollar gold

AUandAG

don't waste you money on a scanner. Get a camera (point and shoot with the flower button) at least.

bob

ebaybuyer

coins with dies out of coin alignment have a following, it is surmised that some of them were struck intentionally (as for presentation maybe ?) others are obviously nothing more than a natural rotation of a loose die. with few exceptions, one can generally expect a rotated die to be worth at least a small premium : the 1846 dime for instance is always rotated, none that i am aware of are correct coin alignment.

GeorgeKellogg

Here is my 1844-D half eagle with a rotated reverse. I purchased it from Doug Winter in 1998, via private treaty (under the banner of "The Charlotte Gold Company"). Coins from the North Georgia Collection were sold in a fixed price list, prior to the main collection being auctioned by Heritage at the 1999 FUN Show. The photo is courtesy of BluCC.