One Major Difference Between PSA and SGC

PSARich · January 17, 2013 4:05AM

I for one favor PSA as the grading company for my cards but I never criticize SGC or even Beckett. I believe they do as credible job as PSA in card grading. I even like SGC's holder better than that of PSA and I think their reputation for grading vintage cards well respected. I believe buy the card not the holder is good advice to consider. But one obvious difference lies in the perceived value of the card based on sales. Now perhaps I am generalizing a bit much here but I just had a recent experience that illustrates this point:

I had a 1975 Topps Frank Robinson that I sent in to SGC some years ago and it received a SGC 96 Mint grade. Although I have cross-overed most of my SGC cards to PSA, I do have a few remaining. I decided not to do a crossover because with 1975 Topps, every little flaw shows on the colored borders and I believe PSA is pretty tough on this series. I have the card in PSA 9 so I put this one on eBay last year with a starting price of $39.99....no bids. Recently, I relisted it with a starting bid of $35.99...still no bids. I relisted at $34.99 and had a bidder who won it at that price. About the same time, a PSA 9 1975 Frank Robinson is listed on eBay. It sells for $96.00 when the bidding came to an end.

Now, why does one graded mint card, same player, year and company sell for three times more than the other? Obviously it is the PSA brand name and the fact that there are many more potential collectors and buyers of PSA cards compared to other grading companies. Now I believe this to be a pretty extreme example but the fact remains that when it comes time to sell our collections, and that will happen to all of us (either by us or our loved ones), many if not most cards (vintage in partular) will probably bring higher sales values in the PSA holder.

Just a thought based on my recent experience and I would welcome other opinions and other's experiences regarding the sales value of PSA cards vs. other grading companies when the auction hammer drops.

bking · January 17, 2013 4:07AM

TRIAPD

mrmint23 · January 17, 2013 4:07AM

Also consider auction versus buy it now...A lot of people don't/won't search bin prices.

Maurice · January 17, 2013 4:16AM

<< I had a 1975 Topps Frank Robinson that I sent in to SGC some years ago and it received a SGC 96 Mint grade. Although I have cross-overed most of my SGC cards to PSA, I do have a few remaining. I decided not to do a crossover because with 1975 Topps, every little flaw shows on the colored borders and I believe PSA is pretty tough on this series. I have the card in PSA 9 so I put this one on eBay last year with a starting price of $39.99....no bids. Recently, I relisted it with a starting bid of $35.99...still no bids. I relisted at $34.99 and had a bidder who won it at that price. About the same time, a PSA 9 1975 Frank Robinson is listed on eBay. It sells for $96.00 when the bidding came to an end.

Now, why does one graded mint card, same player, year and company sell for three times more than the other? >>

The SGC 96/9 sold for only ~1/3 of the price of the PSA 9 for the same reason that you didn't attempt to crossover the SGC 96/9 card to PSA. Because it wasn't worthy of the mint grade.

ddfamf · January 17, 2013 4:33AM

Without seeing the card first-hand, Maurice is full of horse crap.

PSA cards sell for more because they have a heavily-marketed image pushed by the set registry concept.

Higher demand for PSA vs. SGC graded cards.....simple economics.

Maurice · January 17, 2013 4:56AM

<< Without seeing the card first-hand, Maurice is full of horse crap. >>

Ok, then explain why he didn't even attempt the crossover when he has stated that he has crossed over most of his SGC cards to PSA.

<< PSA cards sell for more because they have a heavily-marketed image pushed by the set registry concept. >>

Ok, then explain why PSA cards sold for more than SGC cards before the Set Registry existed.

<< Higher demand for PSA vs. SGC graded cards.....simple economics. >>

Yes, higher demand. But the reason for the higher demand is due to the fact that PSA has a superior product.

I'm sure you can provide scans of a handful of SGC cards that look nicer than an equal grade PSA card but on the overall SGC cards are graded more leniently.

mrmint23 · January 17, 2013 4:58AM

Just do like Levi and charge 5 times the normal price and it would not matter the Grading Company.

ClockworkAngel · January 17, 2013 5:09AM

<< I agree that PSA has a superior product and that it usually sells for more than SGC.

That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

This is a great point. You know, PSA is the king of the market when this is happening. I do not even deal with SGC or Beckett anymore. I like my stuff to be clean and uniformed, so everything I own is PSA and I'm keeping i that way. In fact, I was under the impression that SGC was a very distant 3rd to PSA and Beckett

yankeeno7 · January 17, 2013 5:14AM

<< 
That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

At least research the facts before you make such a ridiculous statement. There are 30,003 SGC cards currently listed on Ebay. There are only 1,338 cards that list SGC and PSA in their auction title.

CocoaBeachDodgers · January 17, 2013 5:15AM

Back about 10 years ago, I had a ton of cards I wanted to get graded & sell, so I did quite a bit of research regarding on the different companies. I went with PSA because they consistantly sold for more as you are saying, plus there was a larger market & PSA seemed to have a better reputation.

As time has passed, I still beleive this to be true, but I think the reason is mainly because of the impact or popularity of the Registry. I do think that their reputation & quality are better than the other 3PG's, but that is debatable, as where almost everybody beleives the reason has much to do with the Registry.

CSC · January 17, 2013 5:36AM

<< I agree that PSA has a superior product and that it usually sells for more than SGC.

That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

If you call the registry a product, then you have a point for modern high grade cards. Otherwise, the rest is ridiculous. SGC, PSA and Beckett are all good grading companies. There are over 50 PSA sets on the registry at over 70% completion for 1975 Topps set. SGC has 1. Registry people are the ones that pay high prices for slabs with 9's and 10's on them. 50 people is a lot more than 1. Nothing to do with the product itself (Slab with grade on it). Also, for those 50 people , there are another 5 people that push prices up by bidding on the cards to flip to registry collectors.

miwlvrn · January 17, 2013 5:48AM

PSA can sell for more than a similar card in a BGS or SGC holder in many cases. One exception is the rare mystique of the pristine 10 if you are lucky enough to get such a grade, since the perception is that PSA can only achieve a BGS 9.5 or SGC 98, where in theory the BGS 10 or SGC 100 is above and beyond a PSA 10. Another case would be where the the card has enough interest as a stand alone item, regardless of the existence of a registry, such as a big name rookie that is universally popular and collected (i.e., for example, I believe a Crosby RC in a BGS 9.5 has no trouble at all competing with a PSA 10). Really I just think there are more people including "PSA" in their search terms when shopping for items than there are "SGC", and multiple bidders on the same item is what controls the sales price. Of course this is debatable but I don't think it stems from a difference in quality/trust of grading product as much as it is the effects of marketing and registry participants.

Maurice · January 17, 2013 5:49AM

<< Otherwise, the rest is ridiculous. SGC, PSA and Beckett are all good grading companies. There are over 50 PSA sets on the registry at over 70% completion for 1975 Topps set. SGC has 1. Registry people are the ones that pay high prices for slabs with 9's and 10's on them. 50 people is a lot more than 1. Nothing to do with the product itself (Slab with grade on it). >>

I don't agree that the 1975 Topps Frank Robinson SGC 96/9 card sold for ~1/3 of the price of a PSA 9 due to the Set Registry.

But, humor me and explain why there's 50+ 1975 Topps sets on the PSA Registry and only 1 on the SGC Registry.

KbKards · January 17, 2013 6:17AM

The buyer most likely bought it to try to cross over to PSA. Most collectors interested in buying a graded 1975 Topps Frank Robinson card have no interest in the card it's in an SGC holder. SGC promoters will say that's not true but all you have to do is look at the set registries. It's absolute proof of what collectors are collecting. Just compare the number of sets registered sets with PSA and SGC for Frank Robinson and 1975 Topps. There's 1 Frank Robinson set registered with SGC and it's 7% complete. PSA has 36 basic Frank Robinson sets registered with 10 at 100% complete. For the 1975 Topps Set SGC has 26 sets registered and the top sets are at 86%, 49%, 27%, 15%, 12% complete. The other 21 SGC sets are at 7% or less completion. PSA has 178 sets registered with 30 at 100%.

vladguerrero · January 17, 2013 6:32AM

Most of my thoughts have been stated. I wouldjust add that the SGC scale also confuses some part time card enthusiats so people feel the need to equate it with the industry leaders scale... Not always straight up spam.

PSARich · January 17, 2013 6:33AM

Appreciate your comments but I didn't intend the post to lead to criticizing any board members. Respect your opinions regardless of whether I agree or disagree. Allow me to address a few points that were brought up. 1. The card was listed in an auction format with a starting price of $34.99. Not BIN. After the initial bid, no others bids were received. 2) I choose not to send it to PSA as a crossover because as I stated 75 Topps are tough cards to get mint grades on and I debated as to whether I wanted to spend $ on the grading fees plus S/H. Maybe it would crossover, maybe not. Most crossovers are not a sure thing. In other words I falsely believed that a PSA 9 for this card wasn't worth $10 more so why spend the money? Turns out that was not a good decision as I didn't realize there would be such a descrpency in value. Obviously, knowing now how these two auctions turned out, I would have sent it in for crossover. Lesson learned.

However, for the purpose of this discussion lets please assume that card was worthy of its mint grade given by SGC. So with the realization that SGC graded it mint and when put up for auction a comparable PSA 9 card sells for three times the amount. Without debating whether PSA or SGC are tougher graders, my question remains...why the big descrepency in final values when sold? Now I don't think that a typical PSA card is worth 3x the value of a SGC card, grades being the same. As I mentioned this seems an extreme case to me. But the reality is it did.

What I'm hearing so far is that PSA is a bigger and more respected brand that is well marketed/promoted and there is a bigger market and higher sales values for PSA cards, possibly driven by the Set Registry. If that is the answer to the question I put forth, so be it. Lessons learned if that is the case: 1. If you collect for the joy of it without respect to back end values or investment purposes, you will spend less money and get very similar cards (possibly equal condition, but debatible) by purchasing many cards in SGC, Beckett, etc holders. If you are concerned with the market value for when you sell, PSA cards are a better way to go. (As evidenced by the 1975 Frank Robinson scenario presnted at the beginning of this post).

ddfamf · January 17, 2013 7:02AM

Bigger = yep

Better marketed = yep

Larger registry = yep

Better respected? --- even if you ignore wiwag and the recent trimming fiasco then it might, almost, maybe be close to #1

OcTrAdInG · January 17, 2013 7:37AM

Please don't get me started again...but since you asked...

Feel free to view the following CU thread that details my recent dismal SGC to PSA crossover story:

1952 BOWMAN SUBMISSION - WOW, WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!!!

I'm still waiting for folks to post some PSA 7.5 scans, and I'm still looking for answers/opinions about the grading.

Anyway, if you don't feel like reading the thread, just know that I submitted 5 1952 Bowman SGC 96's, only to receive 1 PSA 5, 1 PSA 7, 1 PSA 7.5, and 2 PSA 8's. For the most part, PSA grades can be blamed on surface defects (understandable), but with that said, one grade (the PSA 7.5 Jenson) still makes no sense to me at all.

In my opinion, PSA is by no means a superior grader. If anything, they seem very reluctant to cross high-grade, valuable material, and consistency in grading is just lacking. One day there is Evidence of Trim, and the next day there is not. Please just get it right the first time.

Even with my recent crossover experience, I have never been disappointed when I received a high-end SGC card. I won't say the same about PSA cards, and in fact, I just received an overgraded PSA 9 in the mail today (a low-pop card which looked good in the scan, at a purchase price 3 times SMR). Oh well, I'm held hostage by the success of the PSA registry. Is SGC more lenient? No. The grading criteria are different.

It's just too difficult to find SGC cards, and I honestly believe that a lot of PSA cards I own would not cross to the SGC-equivalent if I were to elect crossover treatment from PSA to SGC. Can you tell I'm a big fan of SGC even though I am active in the PSA registry? I am.

For market value and investment purposes, always go with PSA. As has been stated already, the discrepancy in value lies in the fact that demand for PSA cards is higher; assuming a card will crossover (especially one of value) is a bad proposition that will undoubtedly lead to heartache and frustration.

RipublicaninMass · January 17, 2013 7:46AM

I think they each have their place

llafoe · January 17, 2013 8:23AM

like 3000% more...

ClockworkAngel · January 17, 2013 8:45AM

<< 

<< 
That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

At least research the facts before you make such a ridiculous statement. There are 30,003 SGC cards currently listed on Ebay. There are only 1,338 cards that list SGC and PSA in their auction title. >>

Your point...?

Let me ask you this. how many of those 1,338 have a PSA card and are telling us what it would great at SGC? Probably none of them. All 1,338 are telling us what an SGC card would grade at PSA....that's all you need to know

yankeeno7 · January 17, 2013 9:01AM

<< 

<< 

<< 
That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

At least research the facts before you make such a ridiculous statement. There are 30,003 SGC cards currently listed on Ebay. There are only 1,338 cards that list SGC and PSA in their auction title. >>

Your point...?

Let me ask you this. how many of those 1,338 have a PSA card and are telling us what it would great at SGC? Probably none of them. All 1,338 are telling us what an SGC card would grade at PSA....that's all you need to know >>

My point is that MOST people do NOT put PSA in their SGC titles. How much clearer can it be? I was responding directly to the statement quoted. And, as well for you, all you need to do is a little research...this took me all but 15 seconds...
example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5

ClockworkAngel · January 17, 2013 9:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 
That, plus the fact that most people on ebay list their SGCs as "SGC this = PSA that" ... reinforcing the superior image of the PSA brand. >>

At least research the facts before you make such a ridiculous statement. There are 30,003 SGC cards currently listed on Ebay. There are only 1,338 cards that list SGC and PSA in their auction title. >>

Your point...?

Let me ask you this. how many of those 1,338 have a PSA card and are telling us what it would great at SGC? Probably none of them. All 1,338 are telling us what an SGC card would grade at PSA....that's all you need to know >>

My point is that MOST people do NOT put PSA in their SGC titles. How much clearer can it be? I was responding directly to the statement quoted. And, as well for you, all you need to do is a little research...this took me all but 15 seconds...
example 1

example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5 >>

Why so grouchy my friend? One of those days? Run out of Card Savers? PSA gave your 1988 Topps Mattingly a 7?
Those examples you posted are called CYA...cover your ass. Sellers capturing searches buyers have saved. Has nothing to do with this discussion.

What BBG was saying was that you see a lot of this:

Text Text

Telling us what the SGC card is equivalent to at PSA. They are everywhere. Show me a bunch of PSA graded cards where the seller is telling us what the equivalent is at SGC...nope not going to find it. And that's the point. There are so many PSA collectors out there that often the seller is compelled to tell the buyers what he will get at PSA

Don't be mad, but you lose. There will be better days. Keep fighting the fight but choose your battles wisely

yankeeno7 · January 17, 2013 9:41AM

How ever it is you want to interpret is fine. Gosh, I feel like such a loser and you are such a winner. I wish I was you.

grote15 · January 17, 2013 9:48AM

Dpeck100 · January 17, 2013 9:48AM

PSA has 85% market share. That number may be higher now.

You do not get to be the 800 pound gorilla by mistake.

Scottiec2288 · January 17, 2013 9:50AM

People put them on Ebay that way because of IDIOTS don't know what an SGC 88 is. I have both PSA and SGC and ebayers ask me What does SGC 88 equal in PSA. I used to give them an answer, now I just ignore, if you don't know please do not buy the card. There are just too many people that just aren't knowledgable enough to figure it out, so if you put in headline these Idiots will know.

nightcrawler · January 17, 2013 10:12AM

<< 
Don't be mad, but you lose. There will be better days. Keep fighting the fight but choose your battles wisely

>>

Dpeck100 · January 17, 2013 10:15AM

LOL

That is awesome Trent!

ddfamf · January 17, 2013 10:51AM

PSA has 85% market share. That number may be higher now.

What is your source for that number?

whaleteeth · October 5, 2013 7:51AM

I love this debate... it's what ever floats your boat! I think an SGC holder is nicer, no debate , PSA holders look cheezy in comparison to SGC or even BGS for that matter. For me the cut off for SGC is 1969, I can not justify sending 70s or 80s material to SGC let alone modern. PSA definitely rules anything past 69. I've just subbed 15 cards to SGC. Some I have cracked out of PSA cases... One was a real great example of a 57 Mantle PSA 4. If it gets an SGC 60 will it sell for more??? Thoughts

bobbyw8469 · October 5, 2013 8:52AM

<< One was a real great example of a 57 Mantle PSA 4. If it gets an SGC 60 will it sell for more??? Thoughts >>

No.

whaleteeth · October 5, 2013 3:25PM

Believe me this is a really nice psa 4 57 mantle... it could get an SGC 5.5... lol

bobbyw8469 · October 5, 2013 9:11PM

Unless centering is on point, I don't think it will. Sorry. SGC just does not get the money PSA does.

TheMick6 · October 7, 2013 2:24AM

I really think SGC has corrected the lax attitude regarding centering in the past year or two, this is just my personal opinion but I often buy SGC cards that are in 88 and 92 grades paying strict attention to centering to cross them. I think SGC does just as good a job as PSA. I recently sent off 5 SGC 88's and a 92 only to have them come home as 4 PSA 8's a 9 and to my surprise a 10. These where all vintage Brooks Robinson Cards. It's been my experience that if the centering holds up the grades are pretty equal I'll be the first to admit that SGC in the past would hand out 86's to older stuff that would get a PSA qualifier or a grade reduction but even those where usually decent cards not completly mis graded just graded by a differnt company on a differnt scale.

Mickey71 · October 7, 2013 6:13AM

Beckett is terrible for vintage. Many that are graded high are trimmed. I look at Mantle's and Aaron's and just shake my head when I see a Beckett 8.

bigred1 · October 7, 2013 6:51AM

I will go with registry, how else to explain the ridiculous prices on low pop commons.

MiniDuff · October 7, 2013 7:20AM

For my personal collection, I have always liked SGC. That works out nicely, since I can often have cards I want at a discount.

As a seller, I never send cards to SGC for the simple reason that they do sell for less. My own experience has been that it is very hard to cross an SGC card in its holder to PSA, but it is very easy to crack them out and cross (as a previous poster mentioned, if the centering is ok).
I've cracked out well over 100 SGC 92s and never gotten less than an 8 and have gotten many PSA 9s.

So bottom line, please keep on bagging SGC. Just makes it cheaper to buy some nice cards. As always, buy the card, not the holder.

ToppsFan · October 7, 2013 7:28AM

<< For my personal collection, I have always liked SGC. That works out nicely, since I can often have cards I want at a discount.

As a seller, I never send cards to SGC for the simple reason that they do sell for less. My own experience has been that it is very hard to cross an SGC card in its holder to PSA, but it is very easy to crack them out and cross (as a previous poster mentioned, if the centering is ok).
I've cracked out well over 100 SGC 92s and never gotten less than an 8 and have gotten many PSA 9s.

So bottom line, please keep on bagging SGC. Just makes it cheaper to buy some nice cards. As always, buy the card, not the holder. >>

I think people are just being honest. I have found PSA to be in general tougher on grading than SGC. Any SGC I owned have either been sold or converted to PSA, and the conversions either got rejected or got lower grades.

jackstraw · October 7, 2013 7:44AM

If SGC would fix their flip and go to a permanent well and get rid of that cheesy black insert
they would probably get more share? Oh and lose the stupid 1 to 100 scale already, you are not fooling
anyone...

whaleteeth · October 7, 2013 10:28AM

I choose SGC for my pre 1970 ... & 1970s to present I choose PSA... just wonderin what you guys thought as collectors not sellers??

Brick · October 7, 2013 1:27PM

The PSA Registry is terrific as noted by the many participants and number of sets registered. The PSA registry is fairly easy to navigate and take care of business. SGC does have a registry but to add cards you need to beg Earl to do it for you.

ElvisP · October 7, 2013 1:33PM

Not all the time but most times if you start your auctions at a lower price, say $9.99 rather than $30 or $40 you will get more people bidding and interested. Some people just won't bid if they think it has a high opening bid.

haiku808 · October 7, 2013 2:02PM

do not help values of sgc when you go to the site right now.

check it out. now.

fkw · October 7, 2013 10:35PM

a very common '75 Topps card in a SGC slab is all wrong!

PSA is for the newer common mass produced stuff like all Topps cards or the common older stuff like all the T206 subsets and R319 etc.,
SGC is for anything older and rarer...

JHS5120 · October 7, 2013 11:13PM

If you plan to ever sell your cards or believe your children will one day sell your cards or suspect their children may one day sell your cards you better get them graded by PSA.

If you will NEVER sell these cards and you are absoluteloy positive any future generation will carry this same resolve then feel free to send them to whomever you desire.

corncobb · October 8, 2013 6:45PM

Ive cracked 100's of cards for my raw sets from both PSA and SGC.

I usually get a more constistantly higher quality card from the SGC holder.

You can kid yourself all you want, but the Only reason PSA sells for more is because of the Registry and
no doubt Great Brand Name Marketing. Its certainly not anything to do with a superior card.

TheMick6 · October 9, 2013 12:22AM

I really don't think there is any major difference in the quality of grading anymore. SGC is a quality company with very good customer service. I choose PSA because of two reasons and they have nothing to do with grading quality.

1. PSA is the leader in the marketplace and if for any reason I am forced to sell it would sell quick and for the greatest amount. I don't think anyone can argue against that.

2. I am currently putting together a 1953 and 56 topps set. 620 Psa slabs store in less space than 620 SGC slabs. I think alot of hobbyist are like I am and enjoy having continuity in there collection, all PSA or all SGC.

One side note regarding SGC's holders. I actually like the overall look but having bought numerous SGC cards and a few over the Internet I've had more than one have the black gasket bite into the corner if a card. I'd be interested to know how many stay away from SGC for that reason.

bigjed · October 9, 2013 2:58AM

I see this as a mint 1975 Frank Robinson is a $35 card but some PSA set registridiot is willing to put a $60 premium on the holder.

PSA is not superior to any other grading company. They have employees making subjective decisions just like the other companies have employees making subjective decisions. PSA has simply found a way to capture the attention of collectors through a new kinds of "sets" via the registry. And those collectors are willing to pay more for the missing holder (err...card) from their set.

JHS5120 · October 9, 2013 3:05AM

<< I see this as a mint 1975 Frank Robinson is a $35 card but some PSA set registridiot is willing to put a $60 premium on the holder.

PSA is not superior to any other grading company. They have employees making subjective decisions just like the other companies have employees making subjective decisions. PSA has simply found a way to capture the attention of collectors through a new kinds of "sets" via the registry. And those collectors are willing to pay more for the missing holder (err...card) from their set. >>

I agree with this.

So, from what I am reading it would be beneficial to go to PSA for grading needs over SGC.. From what CornCobb said (and others from what I hear) PSA is more lenient on grading and from what everyone is saying, their slabs demand a premium (for whatever reason). So, let's say you have a NM-MT 1975 Topps Frank Robinson. You can send it to SGC and because of their strict standards it'll get an SGC 88 (worth $5?) or you can send it to PSA and it'll get a PSA 9 (worth $90). Why would you ever send a card to SGC? Surely the black paper insert isn't worth $85, is it?

TheMick6 · October 9, 2013 3:15AM

I wouldn't say SGC is more strict than PSA I think they are right on par with each other at the moment. There was a time when SGC was more lenient on centering than PSA but I've seen under and over graded cards in both holders. Right now I'd say they are pretty close standards wise. It's just been my experience that a well centered SGC card almost always crosses well if not higher (if cracked out)

One Major Difference Between PSA and SGC

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