Germany wants its gold back
bronco2078
Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
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bronco2078
Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
bronco2078
Posts: 10,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
If you are going to bother owning physical it doesn't need to be under your pillow but it should be on the same side of the ocean I think. Anyway, since the Fed has no use for it it should ease their minds to not have to watch over it anymore.
wear on the German Central Bank. Simply stated, if you don't hold it, you don't own it. When the paper gold scheme comes crashing to the floor and there are 10 liens on every
bar in the vault, that's when you want to own it. Germany wants their 3396 tonnes of gold back, not just 150 tonnes to assay which was foolish to even consider. Of course the
NY Fed would send you 150 tonnes in legit gold bars. But 3396 tonnes? That's a different story. And while all the supposed US and foreign gold that is supposed to be at the FED
bank of NY is there, it's a whole different story on who has dibs on it. First come, first serve. Germany's not waiting for anyone else to pull their gold first. Bullish for gold, especially
if there are any screw ups or problems in the transaction.
If everyone could trust each other and there weren't a zillion paper promises out there, it probably wouldn't matter where the gold was stored. But in today's world with $1.1 QUAD
in derivatives and specifically $450 BILL in gold otc derivatives (>8,000 tonnes of gold equiv), I'd want that gold in my country. Should there be a reset in the financial system down the
road where gold comes into direct play, you'll want that in your hands, not across the ocean....esp. if a reset occurs in Europe. If anyone doesn't want to pay SDB fees to store their
gold feel free to send it to me since it doesn't matter where it's stored. I have extra room in my box and I'll even send you a certified receipt/IOU.
Well, one could always pose the opposite question - do you have your money stored over in a fiscally-unstable place, like maybe Spain for instance?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>So? If it's not being used, and is just being stored, what does it matter where it is stored? >>
It shows a lessening of trust in the US by Germany.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>So? If it's not being used, and is just being stored, what does it matter where it is stored? >>
As implied in the article, Germany only needs the gold here if some day they need to buy dollars (that's why they're not repatriating all of it). It's the same story for the gold they have in Great Britain (i.e. there in case they need to buy Pounds). However, since France and Germany are both on the Euro, there's certainly no need to have gold in France.
P.S. All the gold in the NY Fed vault is real and accounted for (I've seen it).
It's a "no confidence" vote on the dollar. What they didn't say is "why". What's changed after all these years? Obviously, something has changed, in their opinion.
I knew it would happen.
Did you also assay the bars and inspect the books to see what portions were leased/swapped out as well as who actually has title to the gold?
Germany has recently been trying to view their gold but has been rebuffed. The Bank of England told Germany they didn't have visitor rooms so they
couldn't accomodate a tour of their gold. The people of Austria recently found out that a huge portion of "their" gold had been leased out....basically gone forever. But they
have the IOU's.
In Germany, there's a hot debate about gold vs. currency. They lived through the Weimar inflation and have a totally different mindset than the US. To them it's very important
where the gold is stored. If the gold in unemcumbered it should be able to return to Germany. Venezuela has already repatrioted their gold. Several other nations are already in
process of doing the same thing. Better to be early to this party. There's also great political pressure from within to bring Germany's gold back. If I were the strongest nation in
the EU I'd want my gold stored within that union.
<< <i>The people of Austria recently found out that a huge portion of "their" gold has been leased out....basically gone forever. But they
have the IOU's.
Who leased out their gold? The Austrian government?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Who leased out their gold? The Austrian government? >>
More than likely. The gold had been stored in London. The people are starting to figure out that most of this "leased" gold over the past 10-15 yrs was used primarily to manage
the gold price. When Gordon Brown sold 50% of England's gold from 1999-2002 the supposed reason was to reduce the "volatility" of its reserves. An asset that is at 20 yr lows
is "volatile"? Check out the variations of gold vs. currencies, stocks, oil, and bonds over the past 10 yrs. Gold has about the most stable price of all of them.
is "volatile"?
Gordon Brown is a "visionary".
(or maybe just plain stupid)
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>P.S. All the gold in the NY Fed vault is real and accounted for (I've seen it).
Did you also assay the bars and inspect the books to see what portions were leased/swapped out as well as who actually has title to the gold?
Germany has recently been trying to view their view their gold but has been rebuffed. The Bank of England told Germany they didn't have visitor rooms so they
couldn't accomodate a tour of their gold. The people of Austria recently found out that a huge portion of "their" gold has been leased out....basically gone forever. But they
have the IOU's.
In Germany, there's a hot debate about gold vs. currency. They lived through the Weimar inflation and have a totally different mindset than the US. To them it's very important
where the gold is stored. If the gold in unemcumbered it should be able to return to Germany. Venezuela has already repatrioted their gold. Several other nations are already in
process of doing the same thing. Better to be early to this party. There's also great political pressure from within to bring Germany's gold back. If I were the strongest nation in
the EU I'd want my gold stored within that union. >>
I saw a group from a foreign country inventorying and weighing their bars; the guide said there were inventories up to once a month. Your conspiracy theories just have NO basis in fact.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>So? If it's not being used, and is just being stored, what does it matter where it is stored? >>
As implied in the article, Germany only needs the gold here if some day they need to buy dollars (that's why they're not repatriating all of it). It's the same story for the gold they have in Great Britain (i.e. there in case they need to buy Pounds). However, since France and Germany are both on the Euro, there's certainly no need to have gold in France.
P.S. All the gold in the NY Fed vault is real and accounted for (I've seen it). >>
Whew!!!...now I can sleep at night!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>When Gordon Brown sold 50% of England's gold from 1999-2002 the supposed reason was to reduce the "volatility" of its reserves. An asset that is at 20 yr lows
is "volatile"?
Gordon Brown is a "visionary".
(or maybe just plain stupid) >>
Gordon Brown Sold Britain’s Gold at Artificially Low Prices to Bail Out a Large American Bank
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
This is like transfering your savings to someone else for safekeeping and expecting them to never touch any of it.
<< <i>I have never understood storing gold in another country, doesn't Germany have a secure place to store their gold???
This is like transfering your savings to someone else for safekeeping and expecting them to never touch any of it.
The upside is that you don't have to worry about the boat sinking while bringing it back across the Atlantic. It is possible that title to any particular bar in storage may have switched back and forth across the Atlantic many times in recent decades without the bar being exposed to the briny deep. I'm sure that you can get insurance, but that costs money.
The downside is that the person storing it may have issues.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>During the cold war it made sense - West Germany could have been quickly overrun and its gold taken. It is not necessary for them to store it in the US now. >>
Good point!
<< <i>It is easier to loan out or use as collateral if a third party is holding it, especially if the one holding it is the third party. Someone loaning against it or leasing it does not want to have to worry about getting to it if there is a default. By keeping it elsewhere, it is easier for the owner to borrow from or lease to the party holding it. >>
How does weighing anything determine its actual composition? Basically, it doesn't. And just because I direct you to a vault and say "those" are yours, doesn't mean you have
title to them....or that 5 other entities don't also have "title" to them. It's common knowledge that central bank gold inventories double count leased gold as owned by both the lessor
and lessee. Why is that? Why don't they publish an official rendering of who really owns what? Why are bank gold transactions more secret than building nuclear weapons? Why
in the heck would Germany want to repatriot its gold if the system were fully accountable and safe? I'd be more impressed if foreign officials were in the vault with more sophisticated
equipment than a scale. They can do inventories like that every single day and it wouldn't matter.
If gold is such a barbarous relic why should it be needed by anyone to get a loan from a 3rd party, especially Germany? All the gold held by the CB's is a drop in the bucket compared to
all the debt and entitlement that's out there. So why all of a sudden is gold that important to repatriate if it's not money, not a debt extinguisher, and not very desireable in our fiat
world? If I were Geithner I'd ensure that the Treasury Dept was playing games with gold. After all it's to the govt's advantage. It's a significant part of maintaining the debt-money
regime a while longer. Rubin and Summers invented the latest gold game and every SOT since has played it. I'd expect nothing less of our unelected officials to do what's best for the
big banks and US govt. Rather than a conspiracy....it's just common sense. $1.1 Quad in otc derivatives says the system is gamed. $200 BILL in silver otc derivs in July 2008 also
proved the system is gamed (14 yrs of world production). $650 BILL in gold otc derivs in 2008 says that gold is a big part of the gaming (7 yrs world production). The big banks were
caught rigging Libor and smashing the world's financial system with a $20 TRILL loss from 2008-2010. But they wouldn't dare play games with rigging gold.
I wonder what is up. I'm certainly induced to accelerate my stacking.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
<< <i>This action of Deutschland impresses me far more than that of Chavez's Venezuela.
I wonder what is up. I'm certainly induced to accelerate my stacking. >>
Hey, I see on BST ~ PC is trying to sell 8,000 oz's a month
<< <i>So? If it's not being used, and is just being stored, what does it matter where it is stored? >>
Can you say.... M.F. Global
Boating accidents while navigating deep lakes may be the last safe refuge.
MF GLOBAL
JC
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Like roadrunner said, central banks apparently don't trust each other. And this is story behind the story. We've gone from banks not trusting each other to central banks not trusting each other. The mistrust will surface in bonds, currencies and all other "promises" that have been made on the international level.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I have never understood storing gold in another country, doesn't Germany have a secure place to store their gold???
This is like transfering your savings to someone else for safekeeping and expecting them to never touch any of it.
As stated earlier, it gives them the ability to buy another country's currency (in the case of the NY Fed, US dollars) without any delays.
<< <i>I saw a group from a foreign country inventorying and weighing their bars; the guide said there were inventories up to once a month. Your conspiracy theories just have NO basis in fact.
How does weighing anything determine its actual composition? Basically, it doesn't. And just because I direct you to a vault and say "those" are yours, doesn't mean you have
title to them....or that 5 other entities don't also have "title" to them. It's common knowledge that central bank gold inventories double count leased gold as owned by both the lessor
and lessee. Why is that? Why don't they publish an official rendering of who really owns what? Why are bank gold transactions more secret than building nuclear weapons? Why
in the heck would Germany want to repatriot its gold if the system were fully accountable and safe? I'd be more impressed if foreign officials were in the vault with more sophisticated
equipment than a scale. They can do inventories like that every single day and it wouldn't matter.
If gold is such a barbarous relic why should it be needed by anyone to get a loan from a 3rd party, especially Germany? All the gold held by the CB's is a drop in the bucket compared to
all the debt and entitlement that's out there. So why all of a sudden is gold that important to repatriate if it's not money, not a debt extinguisher, and not very desireable in our fiat
world? If I were Geithner I'd ensure that the Treasury Dept was playing games with gold. After all it's to the govt's advantage. It's a significant part of maintaining the debt-money
regime a while longer. Rubin and Summers invented the latest gold game and every SOT since has played it. I'd expect nothing less of our unelected officials to do what's best for the
big banks and US govt. Rather than a conspiracy....it's just common sense. $1.1 Quad in otc derivatives says the system is gamed. $200 BILL in silver otc derivs in July 2008 also
proved the system is gamed (14 yrs of world production). $650 BILL in gold otc derivs in 2008 says that gold is a big part of the gaming (7 yrs world production). The big banks were
caught rigging Libor and smashing the world's financial system with a $20 TRILL loss from 2008-2010. But they wouldn't dare play games with rigging gold. >>
Philipp Missfelder, a politician from Merkel’s own party, has asked the Bundesbank for the right to view the gold bars in Paris and London, but the central bank has denied the request, citing the lack of visitor rooms in those facilities, German’s daily Bild reported.
This is NOT the NY Federal Reserve Bank
I'm not sure why buying another country's currency would be facilitated by holding another country's gold in a vault outside that country. After all, these are the days of electronic money transfers and instant money creation with the stroke of a computer keyboard.
It is a huge inconsistancy to insist on holding someone else's gold as some type of "future collateral" for a currency that is being created out of nothing, all the while repeatedly stating that gold isn't money.
I knew it would happen.
CNBC is reporting this, Steve.Link
And yes, the Germans were denied an inspection of their own gold being held in the NY Fed - so you must have some special clearance because according to Der Speigel, even owners don't get to see their own gold.
Tourists are allowed to venture below street level to see the vault. After descending in an elevator, they stand in front of an enormous steel cylinder that pivots like a door in a 140-ton steel-and-concrete frame. But not even the owners are allowed to view their own gold. According to the Federal Audit Office report, the Fed explained that "in the interest of security and of the control process" no "viewings" are possible.
der Speigel
I knew it would happen.
CB's know how much gold they've leased out or sold, esp. the US which holds the world's reserve currency. Germany supposedly has not sold any of their gold over these past few
decades. Maybe they want to keep it that way (ie ensure someone else doesn't sell it for them). When the otc derivatives/debt-money scheme comes to a head, those CB's who have
gold will have a somewhat stronger seat at that table. And when the system cracks, you don't want the entity that is holding your gold to invent liens on it. Germany has a long
history of having liens attached to its assets.
Bring It On Home
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Maybe the Germans have decided that they don't want to be "Corzined". >>
Maybe they already have. We'll soon know.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's certainly a likelihood. I wonder if we'll ever really know, except that - who's next, after Germany?
I knew it would happen.
They certainly know the state of their gold and its virtual standing and benefits of having it where it is,
and as well know the complications of that resource, the gold game overall, and downside of trying to pull it back.
If the Germans want their gold back, all they have to do is provide transportation. I know they pay NOTHING for storing it at the Fed, and I suspect the guards which transport the gold out of the vault are also free.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Do we still have troops in Germany? >>
Probably enough there to put two or three in every American school house.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Maybe they already have. We'll soon know.
It's certainly a likelihood. I wonder if we'll ever really know, except that - who's next, after Germany? >>
Netherlands is queing up.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Do we still have troops in Germany? >>
Probably enough there to put two or three in every American school house. >>
Why? Do we still fear that Germany will be overrun by the Soviet Union? We should give them their gold and take back our troops.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm not sure why buying another country's currency would be facilitated by holding another country's gold in a vault outside that country. >>
Im confused on this too as the other gold is not an investment, its speculation thread has many saying that gold isnt really money...
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure why buying another country's currency would be facilitated by holding another country's gold in a vault outside that country. >>
Im confused on this too as the other gold is not an investment, its speculation thread has many saying that gold isnt really money...
If you're buying dollars and have gold in the US or buying euros and have gold in Germany the transaction is facilitated much quicker. This is one reason why gold deposits or kept in more than one major country. Sorta like keeping a credit balance in your "account."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I have never understood storing gold in another country, doesn't Germany have a secure place to store their gold???
This is like transfering your savings to someone else for safekeeping and expecting them to never touch any of it.
According to the BBC, "The bars were originally taken out of Germany as a precaution against an invasion from the Soviet Union."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21040214#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey