FUN 2013 Report & Observations (Long)
TomB
Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
Right about now there will likely be a fair number of FUN show reviews posted on the various coin boards. I like to read numerous reviews for the same show since this can give everyone a better idea of how each market niche might be behaving at a given moment in time. Most reading this probably realize that I specialize in superb type (gem and near-gem Seated Liberty and Barber coinage, etc…) as well as problem-free earlier Federal coinage (VF-AU Draped Bust, Capped Bust and Reeded Edge pieces, etc…) and anything else I find especially cool (classic commems, crusty gold, foreign, exonumia and other). What I like to buy and sell is where the emphasis of my experience and show report will spend the most time.
FUN is a large show with a major, multi-night auction, large bourse, educational events and thousands of dealers and collectors in attendance. Given the many options that compete for time and energy, it is best to have a plan beforehand. This is especially true, in my opinion, for dealers like me who work alone. Immediately after check-in at my hotel I proceeded to go to the Heritage room for auction lot viewing. Lot viewing began slightly later than I had expected since I could not find my hotel on International Drive. I’ve done the FUN show for 15-years or so and have never had this problem in other years, but I booked too late to get a show hotel and ended up about two miles away from the convention center. This shouldn’t have been an issue since the hotel and convention center are both listed as being on International Drive. The problem came about because the Hampton Inn was actually one block away on Sand Lake Road and was facing Sand Lake Road. However, the entrance to the hotel parking lot was shared with a Dunkin’ Donuts that faced International Drive and the sign for the Hampton Inn, which was little more than the typical “For Sale” sign in front of a home, was approximately hip level and obscured by pedestrians. I passed the entrance without seeing the sign; passed it again on my second go round; passed it a third time after using Yahoo Maps to locate the hotel just blocks away; and then passed it a fourth time when I noticed it too late and had the choice of either pulling into the driveway like a maniac and taking out a few pedestrians or circling back on my now familiar route. I circled back, entered the Dunkin’ Donuts parking lot, and drove behind the Dunkin’ Donuts to see the wonderful waste container they have out back, passed a dinosaur and wild animal themed pitch-and-put and finally entered the Sand Lake Road facing Hampton Inn parking lot. The manager behind the desk told me that everyone has a hard time finding the place…I wonder why?
Lot viewing went well. Heritage has this down to a science and makes certain to have ample room, plenty of on-site staff and comfortable heating/cooling settings. My goal at this point was to finalize inspection of a number of lots that clients had asked me to preview for them as well as to go through coins that had looked interesting to me. There were some nice pieces and, of course, some not so nice pieces. I took copious notes for my clients, and while looking at coins that I thought might be interesting, came upon the object lesson for one of the best reasons to have someone lot view when viewing cannot otherwise be done in person. The coin was PCGS graded and was within my niche. The images on the Heritage website gave an idea as to how the coin might look in-hand, but of course were not perfect. I picked the coin up and was astonished to see that a coin with significant negative eye appeal as well as surfaces that should have been bagged for cleaning was actually in a problem-free holder. I don’t often write this, but the coin was horrible and should have been off the market. I didn’t say anything as I rotated the coin in the light, but then handed it to the Heritage staff person who was helping me lot view and asked her what she thought. Keep in mind that she wasn’t a “coin person”, but she immediately rotated the coin like I had done and said “It looks scratched up”. No kidding. I told her that this coin would be sold to an internet bidder who hasn’t seen it in-hand and hasn’t made arrangements with someone like me to lot view. A quick check of the Heritage site shows that someone made a four-figure mistake, in my opinion.
The show itself seemed to be quite busy from my perspective with good floor traffic, a relatively good or optimistic mood about the hobby and many deals. Numismatic Americana (njcoincrank) is always kind enough to allow me to use table space to keep my stuff at and to otherwise use as my home during a show. I walk the floor with my inventory in-hand during a show to sell primarily to other dealers and to acquire fresh material for my own clients. This arrangement has worked well in the past and worked well at this show, too. Not all of my show reports list those who were at the show, but a quick shout out should go to a few folks including boiler78 and Lakesammman who came to the table for a bit of show-and-tell of truly unusual and scarce coinage; the PCGS-in-exile coinguy1 (Mark Feld) who never misses an opportunity to make my life just a little more complex on the floor; another PCGS-in-exile member who is a tremendous resource for Southern gold and classic commems, FatMan, whom I had last met in person at a show in NJ about 8-years ago and whom I recognized immediately; Dahlonega, who is a true gentleman and mentor for Southern gold and surfaces; physicsfan314, who has a passion and discipline for a very tough niche; the Barberphile tandem of MFH and the newly independent PonyExpress8; the always pleasant and smiling shish; and last but not least, Kove, whom I have interacted with on the boards and have actually done some business with at shows, but had never previously put together the person with the forum ID. I believe Kove might have been a bit surprised to see that my PCGS green demon avatar looks eerily like my appearance in person. Of course, the shows would never be as rewarding, fun or educational without my dinner companions from show-to-show, month-to-month and state-to-state who include ubiquitous foursome of ColonelJessup, njcoincrank, CoinRaritiesOnline and BigMoose as well as a number of non-forum members.
Truly, I do not know how some dealers keep a daily blog of show activities given the bourse opens at 8:30 AM and closes at 7:00 PM and then dinner can last until 10:00 or 11:00 PM. This schedule allows me to do little more than basic accounting and planning for the next day. Kudos is given to those who can recount events in a timelier manner and share them with others. Some observations about the show and my areas of specialty-
1) I used to think that Morgan dollars and generic gold were the most commonly encountered coins in PCGS OGHs, followed closely by classic commems, but at this show there were scores upon scores of late date WLHs in such holders.
2) Barber coinage in F-EF was, back as late as 2004 or 2005, fairly scarce to find in PCGS holders but that has changed dramatically with an apparent population explosion of many issues and a few dealers who literally each had several double-row boxes of these coins in PCGS holders at their tables.
3) Multiple dealers told me that they could not sell Peace dollars with natural or original light patina while blast white Peace dollars were good sellers. One even commented that the more these coins look like modern silver commems, the easier they are to sell. This is unfortunate for me since I only carry Peace dollars with a natural patina on them and even brought back with me a terrific example with wonderful, light pastel color.
4) One long time collector who is very advanced told me he decided to come to the show to buy some coins to give him a shot at being a part-time dealer. By Friday afternoon he lamented that he had learned this can be a very tough business since he had been there three days in an effort to purchase truly nice coins that were not priced to the moon and had come up empty. He had learned this was not an easy goal. Thankfully, he asked to see my box and proceeded to purchase a few coins from me as his patience and diligence paid off by finding neat coins at more reasonable prices.
5) There was a feeling among at least some dealers that the auctions were keeping activity on the bourse floor in a holding pattern because of the possible funds that would be required by not only the dealers, but also by the clients present.
6) Nice Seated Liberty dollars were even more scarce than typical, which made me even happier to acquire a few such coins at the show.
7) The experience at lot viewing should be recounted. Please, if you can’t see the coin in person, consider getting in contact with someone who will do lot preview and work out the details. Typically, lot preview only costs money if the buyer is successful in obtaining the lot at auction and the fee is generally quite reasonable and along the lines of 5% of hammer. This can save folks disappointment by avoiding the acquisition of a bad coin and money since a bad coin can be quite difficult to sell without losing a good percentage of the investment. I believe that it is just as important to avoid buying the wrong coin as it is to actually obtain the right coin.
8) I saw the most attractive Seated Liberty half dollar I have ever seen.
9) Only one dealer had any more than one or two “off-brand” certified coins, but this single dealer had six cases chock full of every “off-brand” one could imagine. I have no idea as to his sales or to whom he sells his inventory.
10) The “Budget” area had a sign stating that the coins in that area were to be $1,000 or less, but several dealers had many prominently displayed coins for sale in that area where the prices were many multiples of that upper limit. I don’t understand how that works.
11) Heritage has a great system for lot viewing and those who attend the shows should try it at least one time.
12) One dealer had seven RE half dollars in TPG holders. This is included here because the RE half dollars are my favorite series and it is unusual to find someone who has any number of these for sale. This dealer had an 1836 as well as a pair of 1839-O pieces at his table, but I purchased none. Later, a wonderful 1839-O happened to fall out of the sky into my eager hands and I was only too happy to buy the coin.
13) The trend away from small silver coins (three-cent silvers and half-dimes) has been noted among a number of dealers. We have all found these increasingly difficult to sell over the last two or three years.
14) One well-respected and long-time dealer of wonderful type made the jump to toned Morgan and Peace dollars because his experience in type indicated that it was too difficult to replenish inventory with similar quality coins while dollars were much easier to buy.
15) The metals did not dominate the thoughts of most.
16) No doubt I have forgotten many details and might be able to answer questions if they are posed.
FUN is a large show with a major, multi-night auction, large bourse, educational events and thousands of dealers and collectors in attendance. Given the many options that compete for time and energy, it is best to have a plan beforehand. This is especially true, in my opinion, for dealers like me who work alone. Immediately after check-in at my hotel I proceeded to go to the Heritage room for auction lot viewing. Lot viewing began slightly later than I had expected since I could not find my hotel on International Drive. I’ve done the FUN show for 15-years or so and have never had this problem in other years, but I booked too late to get a show hotel and ended up about two miles away from the convention center. This shouldn’t have been an issue since the hotel and convention center are both listed as being on International Drive. The problem came about because the Hampton Inn was actually one block away on Sand Lake Road and was facing Sand Lake Road. However, the entrance to the hotel parking lot was shared with a Dunkin’ Donuts that faced International Drive and the sign for the Hampton Inn, which was little more than the typical “For Sale” sign in front of a home, was approximately hip level and obscured by pedestrians. I passed the entrance without seeing the sign; passed it again on my second go round; passed it a third time after using Yahoo Maps to locate the hotel just blocks away; and then passed it a fourth time when I noticed it too late and had the choice of either pulling into the driveway like a maniac and taking out a few pedestrians or circling back on my now familiar route. I circled back, entered the Dunkin’ Donuts parking lot, and drove behind the Dunkin’ Donuts to see the wonderful waste container they have out back, passed a dinosaur and wild animal themed pitch-and-put and finally entered the Sand Lake Road facing Hampton Inn parking lot. The manager behind the desk told me that everyone has a hard time finding the place…I wonder why?
Lot viewing went well. Heritage has this down to a science and makes certain to have ample room, plenty of on-site staff and comfortable heating/cooling settings. My goal at this point was to finalize inspection of a number of lots that clients had asked me to preview for them as well as to go through coins that had looked interesting to me. There were some nice pieces and, of course, some not so nice pieces. I took copious notes for my clients, and while looking at coins that I thought might be interesting, came upon the object lesson for one of the best reasons to have someone lot view when viewing cannot otherwise be done in person. The coin was PCGS graded and was within my niche. The images on the Heritage website gave an idea as to how the coin might look in-hand, but of course were not perfect. I picked the coin up and was astonished to see that a coin with significant negative eye appeal as well as surfaces that should have been bagged for cleaning was actually in a problem-free holder. I don’t often write this, but the coin was horrible and should have been off the market. I didn’t say anything as I rotated the coin in the light, but then handed it to the Heritage staff person who was helping me lot view and asked her what she thought. Keep in mind that she wasn’t a “coin person”, but she immediately rotated the coin like I had done and said “It looks scratched up”. No kidding. I told her that this coin would be sold to an internet bidder who hasn’t seen it in-hand and hasn’t made arrangements with someone like me to lot view. A quick check of the Heritage site shows that someone made a four-figure mistake, in my opinion.
The show itself seemed to be quite busy from my perspective with good floor traffic, a relatively good or optimistic mood about the hobby and many deals. Numismatic Americana (njcoincrank) is always kind enough to allow me to use table space to keep my stuff at and to otherwise use as my home during a show. I walk the floor with my inventory in-hand during a show to sell primarily to other dealers and to acquire fresh material for my own clients. This arrangement has worked well in the past and worked well at this show, too. Not all of my show reports list those who were at the show, but a quick shout out should go to a few folks including boiler78 and Lakesammman who came to the table for a bit of show-and-tell of truly unusual and scarce coinage; the PCGS-in-exile coinguy1 (Mark Feld) who never misses an opportunity to make my life just a little more complex on the floor; another PCGS-in-exile member who is a tremendous resource for Southern gold and classic commems, FatMan, whom I had last met in person at a show in NJ about 8-years ago and whom I recognized immediately; Dahlonega, who is a true gentleman and mentor for Southern gold and surfaces; physicsfan314, who has a passion and discipline for a very tough niche; the Barberphile tandem of MFH and the newly independent PonyExpress8; the always pleasant and smiling shish; and last but not least, Kove, whom I have interacted with on the boards and have actually done some business with at shows, but had never previously put together the person with the forum ID. I believe Kove might have been a bit surprised to see that my PCGS green demon avatar looks eerily like my appearance in person. Of course, the shows would never be as rewarding, fun or educational without my dinner companions from show-to-show, month-to-month and state-to-state who include ubiquitous foursome of ColonelJessup, njcoincrank, CoinRaritiesOnline and BigMoose as well as a number of non-forum members.
Truly, I do not know how some dealers keep a daily blog of show activities given the bourse opens at 8:30 AM and closes at 7:00 PM and then dinner can last until 10:00 or 11:00 PM. This schedule allows me to do little more than basic accounting and planning for the next day. Kudos is given to those who can recount events in a timelier manner and share them with others. Some observations about the show and my areas of specialty-
1) I used to think that Morgan dollars and generic gold were the most commonly encountered coins in PCGS OGHs, followed closely by classic commems, but at this show there were scores upon scores of late date WLHs in such holders.
2) Barber coinage in F-EF was, back as late as 2004 or 2005, fairly scarce to find in PCGS holders but that has changed dramatically with an apparent population explosion of many issues and a few dealers who literally each had several double-row boxes of these coins in PCGS holders at their tables.
3) Multiple dealers told me that they could not sell Peace dollars with natural or original light patina while blast white Peace dollars were good sellers. One even commented that the more these coins look like modern silver commems, the easier they are to sell. This is unfortunate for me since I only carry Peace dollars with a natural patina on them and even brought back with me a terrific example with wonderful, light pastel color.
4) One long time collector who is very advanced told me he decided to come to the show to buy some coins to give him a shot at being a part-time dealer. By Friday afternoon he lamented that he had learned this can be a very tough business since he had been there three days in an effort to purchase truly nice coins that were not priced to the moon and had come up empty. He had learned this was not an easy goal. Thankfully, he asked to see my box and proceeded to purchase a few coins from me as his patience and diligence paid off by finding neat coins at more reasonable prices.
5) There was a feeling among at least some dealers that the auctions were keeping activity on the bourse floor in a holding pattern because of the possible funds that would be required by not only the dealers, but also by the clients present.
6) Nice Seated Liberty dollars were even more scarce than typical, which made me even happier to acquire a few such coins at the show.
7) The experience at lot viewing should be recounted. Please, if you can’t see the coin in person, consider getting in contact with someone who will do lot preview and work out the details. Typically, lot preview only costs money if the buyer is successful in obtaining the lot at auction and the fee is generally quite reasonable and along the lines of 5% of hammer. This can save folks disappointment by avoiding the acquisition of a bad coin and money since a bad coin can be quite difficult to sell without losing a good percentage of the investment. I believe that it is just as important to avoid buying the wrong coin as it is to actually obtain the right coin.
8) I saw the most attractive Seated Liberty half dollar I have ever seen.
9) Only one dealer had any more than one or two “off-brand” certified coins, but this single dealer had six cases chock full of every “off-brand” one could imagine. I have no idea as to his sales or to whom he sells his inventory.
10) The “Budget” area had a sign stating that the coins in that area were to be $1,000 or less, but several dealers had many prominently displayed coins for sale in that area where the prices were many multiples of that upper limit. I don’t understand how that works.
11) Heritage has a great system for lot viewing and those who attend the shows should try it at least one time.
12) One dealer had seven RE half dollars in TPG holders. This is included here because the RE half dollars are my favorite series and it is unusual to find someone who has any number of these for sale. This dealer had an 1836 as well as a pair of 1839-O pieces at his table, but I purchased none. Later, a wonderful 1839-O happened to fall out of the sky into my eager hands and I was only too happy to buy the coin.
13) The trend away from small silver coins (three-cent silvers and half-dimes) has been noted among a number of dealers. We have all found these increasingly difficult to sell over the last two or three years.
14) One well-respected and long-time dealer of wonderful type made the jump to toned Morgan and Peace dollars because his experience in type indicated that it was too difficult to replenish inventory with similar quality coins while dollars were much easier to buy.
15) The metals did not dominate the thoughts of most.
16) No doubt I have forgotten many details and might be able to answer questions if they are posed.
0
Comments
I spent a couple of days at Rich Uhrich's table and my observation based on my limited exposure to the entire bourse floor, in contrast to #15 in your most excellent show report, was that metals were very, very popular. Rich doesn't sell them, but we were very close to the Gainesville Coins booth. Gainesville sells precious metals of all types and I swear they had a stacked booth all day for at least two days straight. I would glance over there from time to time and see people gathered around the table four to five bodies deep.
Great to see you again. As for number13, did not the three cent silvers in the Heritage auction go for crazy money. Loved you report, always a good read even if you and I are on different planets collecting wise. Someday you will have something I like, even if it's an accident.
Rainbow Stars
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I am curious about :
4) One long time collector who is very advanced told me he decided to come to the show to buy some coins to give him a shot at being a part-time dealer. By Friday afternoon he lamented that he had learned this can be a very tough business since he had been there three days in an effort to purchase truly nice coins that were not priced to the moon and had come up empty. He had learned this was not an easy goal. Thankfully, he asked to see my box and proceeded to purchase a few coins from me as his patience and diligence paid off by finding neat coins at more reasonable prices.
My question is if he is an advanced collector and is interested in being a part time dealer I would think he would start dealing some of his own collection.
Did he come to buy and flip on the bourse?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I enjoyed our chat about coin photography. Your passion shows through in the great images you have posted here.
9) Only one dealer had any more than one or two “off-brand” certified coins, but this single dealer had six cases chock full of every “off-brand” one could imagine. I have no idea as to his sales or to whom he sells his inventory.
I spent some time there but he didn't have one "off brand" sample - dang!
10) The “Budget” area had a sign stating that the coins in that area were to be $1,000 or less, but several dealers had many prominently displayed coins for sale in that area where the prices were many multiples of that upper limit. I don’t understand how that works.
I saw a large cent obverse brockage for $2600 there - I reminded him of the price limits and made him the appropriate offer.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Great report.
Can you elaborate on #8?
V.r
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
Great report...Love the 78 Seated Half
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Look forward to the next time and all the best till then...
AB
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
Mike
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
No doubt the proximity to metals dealers or those who carry significant metals would give a different perspective and I had not thought about that when this was written. It is a good point, Barndog. Also, let me apologize to you because you were meant to be listed by name in the thread, but it seems that folks are always inadvertantly omitted when these posts are under construction. The same apology goes out to AuroraBorealis who was a dinner companion during the show.
The collector I wrote about in point four was not hoping to move some of his own coins, but rather was attempting to buy quality inventory to move as a side project or side business. Therefore, he did not have a deep well to draw from for inventory and had to find it on the floor.
The NT Peace dollars were not being offered at high prices, in my opinion, and they were not the monster toned Peace dollars that so many share images of on the boards. Rather, they were the type of coin that has a natural skin that makes the coin appear an off-white or antique white without that blaze of a newly minted coin. I prefer that look for Peace dollars and think others might, too, but the greater market that buys these coins might not value them as highly or make them as liquid currently.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson