cleaning finds

dumbo

Hi all, I am new to this forum and have a question. I recently submitted a 1901 xf half dollar to pcgs for grading. The coin came back as genuine, cleaned vf details. I just wonder how I can avoid this outcome. I have since sent all of my found coins to auction. I am sure someone has some advice. The coin I submitted looked like the day that it fell in the dirt. I just used soap and water with a soft toothbrush to clean it. This coin is a beauty.

ormandh

Next time do not clean it.

pcgs69

the toothbrush may have been what did it. But, sometimes coins do come out unnatural colors out of the ground - maybe it was just too untoned from being in the ground. Make sure you don't rub it either right out of the ground. That's a sure way to scratch it up and put it in a genuine holder.

I just use a very small stream of water to start, very gentle. Sometimes load it up with liquid hand soap before running under. Then, maybe a slight dab (NO RUBBING) with my finger to loosen the dirt up. If there's dirt deep in the crevices (however you spell it), I'll just leave it. Maybe on some expensive silver, maybe soak in some mineral oil to loosen the dirt? Most of my coins are just silver value so soap and water work well.

Got a pic of your half for us to check out?

BTW, welcome to the forum!

ricko

Welcome aboard..... the cardinal rule of coin collecting is "Do not clean"....Cleaning usually means abrasive action and that destroys the surface. Even rubbing with a soft cloth can impart hairlines. Soaking in olive oil or mineral oil can dislodge a lot of contaminants, then running hot water will help. Cheers, RickO

dumbo

Thanks for the advice, I am afraid that those of us who dig coins are at some automatic disadvantage when it comes to coin grading. I am going to try to post photos of front and obverse.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>The coin came back as genuine, cleaned vf details. I just wonder how I can avoid this outcome. >>

With dug coins, as a general rule, there is no way to avoid such an outcome. Any slight friction on a coin, even that caused by the coin lying in sandy soil, might be construed as evidence of cleaning by a TPG, particularly a strict one like PCGS. Even minor "ground action" to a coin's surfaces might be so construed. With nickel and copper, give it up- none of those will ever pass scrutiny at a TPG if they've been dug. With silver, I'd venture a guess that you might get a few by, especially if they got no more cleaning than a soap and water rinse. I wouldn't have thought a toothbrush would affect it, but then again, it might have. They probably look at the coins with pretty strong magnification.



<< <i>I am afraid that those of us who dig coins are at some automatic disadvantage when it comes to coin grading. >>

Yes, in the mainstream sense. But so what. It's a matter of perception. A TPG might view your dug beauty as a "problem" coin, but the important thing is for you to look upon it for what it is- a really nicely preserved find. Sometimes there is a disconnect between the two philosophies. I would recommend selling the coins with the notice that they were dug. Then other people can start to look at it that way, and think, "wow, this thing is nice for having been in the ground so long", instead of "oh, damn, another problem coin somebody messed with".

An XF 1901 half dollar is one helluva nice find as far as I am concerned (my only dug Barber half is a pretty slick 1894-O). So rejoice in how nice it is and don't sweat what some third party grading/slab factory thinks about it. It's nice enough to have it in the "Genuine" plastic if it's a scarce piece like your 1901 half, but otherwise, dug coins are generally never gonna be worth the hassle and potential disappointment of entombing in little plastic slabs. Enjoy 'em for what they are, and pass on a few facts about how they were found, so other people can enjoy the story rather than sweating the details of how they got this little nick or that little hairline.

lordmarcovan

So you see, ormandh had the obvious answer: "next time do not clean it".

That cardinal rule makes sense, of course, but with dug coins, cleaning is a bit of a "necessary evil". Most coins that come out of the ground will need SOME kind of cleaning.

The less-obvious answer I would give, with all due apologies to our forum sponsors, would be: "next time don't waste your time and money trying to slab dug coins". Unless of course it is something potentially valuable like your half dollar, there, and you think it has a shot (which it did- it just missed). The plastic won't be a total waste of money- even the "Genuine" notation will add value to it.

But I'd venture a guess that it would do just as well raw.

Take a hypothetical situation which crops up periodically for some of my dig buddies here- I have sold several of their remarkably-preserved early large cents. Which sounds better if you're a potential buyer:

<< <i>"1798 1c, PCGS Genuine/Environmental Damage" >>


or

<< <i>"An exceptionally well-preserved 1798 Draped Bust cent dug at a Revolutionary War era shipyard in Georgia" >>

?

One description focuses on the flaw. The other on the romance of treasure hunting. Some buyers might find the PCGS plastic reassuring, but you'd save money and hassle by leaving the coin raw and going with something like the second description.

Thousands of people pony up to buy shipwreck coins, and aren't so fussy about a little corrosion or porosity in those cases, because the shipwreck story, however vague it is about the site details, has that romance to it.

This is the main reason why cleaning is not as taboo for those of us who collect ancient coins. Practically ALL of the ancient coins in the marketplace were dug out of the ground at one time, and they run the gamut of preservation conditions as a result. We don't stress over whether they're choice for the grade or whether or not they'll go that one tiny grade point or not. Some are nicer than others, but there is no need to get hyper-obsessive about it. Leave the micro-grading for people who collect gem quality Mint State coins, and appreciate the dug coins for their history and romance.

See what I'm gettin' at? Just adjust your philosophy a little and you will be happier. Obviously, the best policy is to clean your coins as little as possible, and if you do get one through in a problem-free slab from a TPG, then celebrate it. But don't get too bummed out if that doesn't happen. You still have plenty to celebrate.

dumbo

Wow, I appreciate that reply. I guess that sums up how I felt about all of my nice finds I thought of all of them as great. I found the 1901 half in Osawatomie Kansas. The man who owned the vacant lot next door was more than happy to let me go there. The spot where I found it was real cool the large tree was still laying on the ground and there was a distinct impression where folks drug there feet while seated on the tree swing. I scanned and got a real good ring, and at 6 inches deep I saw a shiny object and thought it was another piece of crumpled foil. I popped it out and I did rub it with my thumb lol. I then ran all the way to the kitchen sink wondering about who dropped this coin because in 1901 that was no small sum of money. My prospective has to now be to agree totally with your remarks about what makes a coin valuable to me. I found it and there is a romantic process in dreaming about how it was lost and who may have missed it. I thought maybe a wedding gift, or someone just swinging trying to decide weather to buy that lot in town. Thanks if I e-mail you the photos can you post? I seem to not be able to figure it out, keeps saying file to large and deleted.

lordmarcovan

Great story. See? That makes it worth all the more.

Who knows if that little thumb rub cost you a PCGS grade, but who cares. You were careful enough.

Some kid probably lost that coin and it would have been a big loss back then! Maybe it was his or her Christmas present. Those little mind-movies are what diggin' is all about.

As to posting the photo, you should get a free Photobucket account, or some other offsite hosting service so you can post pix here.

But yeah, I'm happy to upload your photo for you. Email it to rwshinnick@gmail.com. Then PM me so I know to go get it- I am notoriously bad about checking my email.

Speaking of PMs, you will need to go to your forum profile and activate Private Messages. This way you can send and receive PMs, which is how most wheeling-and-dealing goes on here. Another nice feature of the site is the Buy-Sell-Trade forums, where you can sell stuff for free once you've got pictures. (Rules apply, so be sure to read up on those and follow forum etiquette.)

PM me with any questions you might have. You'll like it here.

~Rob Shinnick, aka "Lord Marcovan or "LordM"

johnny9434

welcome to the boards

dumbo

With help from lordm in his infinite wisdom. Here is my attempt at a photo of the half dollar

lordmarcovan

Cool! You got that whole picture posting thing down!

ricko

What a great find..... congratulations .... Cheers, RickO

dumbo

Thanks Ricko, the fun is in the search. Here in Kansas we have over 600 ghost towns and a bunch of abandoned railroads.

johnny9434

<< <i>Thanks Ricko, the fun is in the search. Here in Kansas we have over 600 ghost towns and a bunch of abandoned railroads. >>

wish we had something like that around here. maybe in upstate new york ( for what its worth )

AUandAG

Welcome,

Don't ever clean coins, period,

Fill all holes after digging,

If that coin had been a quarter and an S mint you would have scrubbed 30K down the drain.

bob

dumbo

Yea thanks for the info Bob, I know better now. The part of the statement with regards to the quarter, well lets just say that this coin made me feel bad enough. I still like it though, I guess its ok to make a mistake , just don't forget the lesson.