What's a Low Grade Liberty Seated Dollar Worth?

milkcoin

I don''t knowif I got burned or not but I just spent $120 on one and it's been cleaned but it has surface details fairly nicely in tact. no rim dings, decent looking, maybe some light carving on obverse. what are these generally worth? im wondering if i got a good deal on it or not. i can take pictures in 10 min with my iphone.

BryceM

For a coin with issues value is sometimes difficult to determine.

It sounds to me like it was worth $120 to you.

BillJones

Gray Sheet bid for a Seated Dollar in Good is $225. This is one of those places where I think that the number is too high because the bid on pieces that are better, like the Fine grade is only $55 more. When I was a dealer other dealers always told me about this active market for type in Good, but I never ran into one of those collectors.

Having said that I'd say that $120 is a fair retail price for what you purchased, as long as the coin is genuine. The Chinese have been making "circulated" fakes although most of them look like they are in the VF range.

Don't expect to run out an sell any time soon, however. I've found that problem coins are not easy to sell unless they are very cheap.

milkcoin

BillJones

If you can return it, do so. That piece is not genuine.

milkcoin

<< <i>If you can return it, do so. That piece is not genuine. >>



Pleas educate.

TennesseeDave

If I were you I would trust what Bill Jones has said. One thing that stands out to me is the wear pattern seems unusual,like the lower part of the date being worn away while the dentils are quite clear and the shield lines are still clear while other details are gone.Weigh it,check it with a magnet just a couple simple things you can do till some other experts reply.

DennisH

That coin looks very suspicious. I can think of no good explanation why the date is so weak and the rest of the major design elements are so bold, except that it's a counterfeit.

braddick

<< <i>

<< <i>If you can return it, do so. That piece is not genuine. >>



Please educate. >>



"not genuine" = "not authentic" = "not real" = "counterfeit" = "not-worth-what-you-paid".




(Specifically, the rims are too thick, the relief too shallow and it looks like german silver.)

dollarsandcents

<< <i>If you can return it, do so. That piece is not genuine. >>



I concur.

tydye

I would follow billjones advice. I would return even if it were real.

JBN

Location of the mintmark is a tell: not genuine. Handy that a lot of the black residue is around the mintmark.....

Honestly, the rest of the coin does not look obviously phoney to me.

I don't understand why counterfeit would be done of one of the common dates of the series - unless the mintmark was added years ago before the discovery of the mint bags of this date.

I'm in the 'return it' crowd.

sniocsu

I agree. Return it if possible

stealer

<< <i>If I were you I would trust what Bill Jones has said. One thing that stands out to me is the wear pattern seems unusual,like the lower part of the date being worn away while the dentils are quite clear and the shield lines are still clear while other details are gone.Weigh it,check it with a magnet just a couple simple things you can do till some other experts reply. >>


Well it is a New Orleans mint and the date often appears weak on this date and MM.
However, it's the starts IMO that tip me off that the coin is not genuine.
Perhaps Bill could elaborate, but I don't believe the coin is genuine.

For those of you saying that this coin has a strange wear pattern, check out this coin.

Or this one.

From what I have seen, the weak date is diagnostic for this coin. But the OP's coin does not appear to be genuine.

BillJones

<< <i>

<< <i>If you can return it, do so. That piece is not genuine. >>



Pleas educate. >>



1. The piece does not appear to be made of silver.
2. The rims are wrong for the design.
3. The black junk in between the letters stars is the sort of amateurish stuff that "half butted" counterfeiters use to make their products "look old."
4. It has "fatty lettering" found on many gold counterfeits.

Here is the reverse of a Proof Seated dollar which will show you the difference.

milkcoin

Wow thanks every1 i am going to find out now and call up to see if i can mail it back for a refund.

milkcoin

Spoke to Antique dealer and he does not want to take it back unless there is a notarized confirmation from an Expert/Dealer confirming the authenticity of the coin.

Now I'm left with little legs to stand on because I don't know a dealer who would do me a favor like that.

Edit to add: The owner of the Antique shop was not the guy who sold me the coin, it was sold by a dealer that has his coins sitting behind a counter.

stealer

<< <i>Spoke to Antique dealer and he does not want to take it back unless there is a notarized confirmation from an Expert/Dealer confirming the authenticity of the coin.

Now I'm left with little legs to stand on because I don't know a dealer who would do me a favor like that. >>


There are plenty of well known dealers on this forum.

braddick

It is illegal to sell a counterfeit coin- even unknowingly- so a refund is in your future.
You gotta just speak with the right guy there (the decision maker).

milkcoin

<< <i>It is illegal to sell a counterfeit coin- even unknowingly- so a refund is in your future.
You gotta just speak with the right guy there (the decision maker). >>



I spoke to the owner of the store. At this point, he is relying on his dealer's experience who he says has been in the business for over 20 years and has never had a problem. That's what I'm trying to basically prove here.

Barndog

tell the people who sold you the fake that they can refund your money or deal with the Secret Service.

BryceM

In general, if your first question is "I don't know if I got burned or not", the answer will be "YES!".

If you don't know, don't buy!

Did you buy this from a local shop? I don't have much patience for this sort of stuff. If he wouldn't take it back I'd be calling the authorities. Depending on where you live that may or may not be helpful. If you bought it through the mail you can make a case for mail fraud. It probably isn't worth making a federal case out of a $120 mistake. If you don't get anywhere, call it "tuition".

Walkerguy21D

I would contact your local BBB.....I'm guessing at this point, even a 'notarized letter from an expert' won't get you anywhere with them.
Raise enough stink though, and I'm guessing they'll refund the $120 to make you go away.
Also, see if they are willing to trade it towards something else, like bullion.
Good luck regardless.

MrScience

Can you weigh it and/or measure the thickness? Those data could provide indisputable evidence of a fake (well, at least to reasonable dealers).

rawmorgan

Did you get it at one of those "antique" shops with leased cabinets and the like. The folks that own those, or at least the ones I've been too, have little to no knowledge on any subject.
I remember seeing boiler plate "certificates of authenticity" in a lot of those cabinets, especially when dealing with pre 1900 Americana, Native American, or Mezo-American artifacts.
I got burned a few times and the risk is just too high for fakes.
It's good you only are out a little over $100, could have been worse.
Hopefully you have your reciept, and create a report revealing the lack of diagnostics, weight, and any other discrepancy you can find.
If the shop owner still wont give you a refund, find out if the "expert" they used is part of any professional orginization, and contact them.
Usually a google name search will tell you.

or like Barndog says

they can deal with the Secret Service

Justlooking

This is a a great forum. Glad to be a part of it.

magikbilly

Hmm. "Tuition" need NOT be all that costly if you start by buying books instead of raw coins and looking at coins and more coins and reading forums!

"...it's been cleaned but it has surface details fairly nicely in tact. no rim dings, decent looking, maybe some light carving on obverse."

Nicely intact? Maybe light carving? Perhaps not silver? Please buy some books Not trying to come down hard - but this is avoidable and you bear responsibility. These "20 year dealer" folks did not have you at knifepoint....

Happy New Year!
Eric

Edit to add: PCGS Grading Guide 1st edition is a GREAT place to start!!!! Info about MUCH - not just grading and eye appeal. Counterfeits...for example. Well worth finding one!

291fifth

<< <i>tell the people who sold you the fake that they can refund your money or deal with the Secret Service. >>



I'll bet this would get you a very quick refund.

magikbilly

"...The folks that own those, or at least the ones I've been too, have little to no knowledge on any subject..."

But they have a lot of stock
And that is how you buy a $4000 book for $20! Or a half dollar sold aboard the Great Eastern...or early Kodachrome...

Happy New Year!

Eric

Buzzybest

$1.98

savoyspecial

i'm in the minority but keep it -- as your 'albatross' pocket piece, a penance to constantly remind you to study more before jumping in

Buzzybest

<< <i>i'm in the minority but keep it -- as your 'albatross' pocket piece, a penance to constantly remind you to study more before jumping in >>



I agree! And to anyone who wasted time answering questions like this,get out more and get a real life!!

GoldClause

Update?

LochNESS

One thing I can say about brother Eric, he's always preaching education. And just when I grow tired of the same sermon, something like this happens. I gotta agree with him just cut your losses as the expression goes, and learn from it! Tell your friends (which you did here, thank you) so they can also learn from your mis-steps.

HoledandCreative

Did you weigh the coin? I've seen ugly ones like that and they usually turn out to be genuine.

Zoins

<< <i>i'm in the minority but keep it -- as your 'albatross' pocket piece, a penance to constantly remind you to study more before jumping in >>



I disagree. I feel too many people in this hobby think it's okay to be taken and lose money, calling it "tuition."

What happened? Did you take the advice of those that told you to tell the sellers you'd be contacting the authorities?

TwoSides2aCoin

It's worth further investigation at such a low price.

Coinosaurus

The tip off for me was the lettering on the reverse. It's just way too hammered for a genuine coin in that grade.