1958-D Franklin FBL? worth submitting?

coinsarefun

Does this look like full bell lines to you?

Looks like it to me and may score a MS66...with a chance at 67fbl?

The obverse is not the absolute best in eye appeal but both sides have nice luster and virtually mark free.

After comparing with CoinFacts it may be worth grading?

deltadimeman

ms65 fbl

Jcarney

I'd say that coin has a definite shot at 66FBL and it's definitely worth submitting. The only marks of note that I see are a few tiny reed marks on the bell, and a couple on Ben's face. The fields look pristine. Of course, for a 66, the luster must be all there and this can't be determined by the pics. As far as a 67, I have seen 67's with as many marks but they usually have hammered strikes and glowing luster. While this coin has a good strike, it is not hammered. As far as value, I think the obverse toning keeps it out of big money territory but the reverse makes the coin worth considerably more than a run-of-the mill 66. The bell lines are the wild card here. This coin is not slam-dunk FBL, but I'd need to see it in hand. They do look close enough that the coin will probably get the designation. The TPGs aren't as tough on this date as say, the S mints or the 60s Philly coins. All in all, a really nice coin that I think will grade 66FBL.

JJM

66FBL i think, have them mount it Reverse side up

Shortgapbob

Based on the images, I'd have it graded it if it were my coin.

ricko

Definitely worth submitting...Cheers, RickO

lcoopie

I don't see the FBL
reed mark on bell eliminates 67 IMO

Tonedlover

Spectacular reverse colors! I would definitely submit it, regardless of grade, just because it's a beauty! Having said that, I'm guessing MS65, MS65+, or MS66; as far as the bell lines, I think it's got a good shot at FBL, but I'm not 100% on that. Good luck!

AuroraBorealis

<< <i>Definitely worth submitting...Cheers, RickO >>





AB

BryceM

Two things:

1st - That's a gorgeous coin! I like it and I think it would have a chance at 66. It has a shot at FBL, but not 100%. 67FBL would be winning the lottery. If you really think this one is one of the top 29 coins out of the 6,000 MS coins that they've graded in FBL for this date, send it in to try for the 67 FBL. Just realize the odds are against you. The hits on the center of the bell would make a 67 very, very unlikely IMO.

2nd - Why slab it? Acceptable reasons to me would be maximizing resale value, authentication, registry purposes, protection of the coin, or to assist heirs at some remote future date. If the coin is for your personal enjoyment, I'd enjoy it as-is. Why not? It's a common date and even at 66FBL it's not terribly rare or terribly valuable. If you plan on selling it soon, I'd have it graded. There's probably no question as to authenticity. Even at 66FBL the grading fees will likely consume a large part of any profit to be made. At any other grade (or no-grade) you'll be behind.

.... just presenting the agrument against slabbing, but focus on the first sentence in #1 above.

SkyMan

FROM THE IMAGES it appears to be a 66FBL. The darkness of the obverse may drop it to a 65FBL. Definitely slab it reverse side up.

ChangeInHistory

Nice looking coin, 50/50 on submitting it. I think the obverse color and thumbprint(?) may limit eye appeal.

If you do get it slabbed, I agree with having the reverse side up.

DeliaBug

What I would expect a 67 FBL to look like PCGS 67 FBL

Rick has a bunch of 58-D's, a few 67 FBL's and nothing over MS65 has any hits.

I go with what a few others said @MS65 and possibly FBL.

coinsarefun

<< <i>What I would expect a 67 FBL to look like PCGS 67 FBL

Rick has a bunch of 58-D's, a few 67 FBL's and nothing over MS65 has any hits.

I go with what a few others said @MS65 and possibly FBL. >>






Yes, I agree there should be virtually no hits, or extremely minimal.

The one you refer to is in coinfacts, and if looked at closely one does see hits and this particular coin IMO made the grade for the reverse toning.















Tis one is a MS66+ and IMO is better grade but only got a plus not a grade point higher for eye appeal as the one above did.

Jcarney

<< <i>and nothing over MS65 has any hits. >>



This simply isn't true. An MS66 Franklin will have a few, very small contact marks on the devices with clean fields. RT's Franklins tend to be high-end for the grade (and priced accordingly) but some small, scattered hits are visible in his larger photos. Hit-wise, Stephanie's Franklin is a solid 66.....if the luster is there.

JRocco

Hey Stef.
Very nice coin.
The price difference between a 66 and a 67 is huge. You have to figure the coin to be a lock 67 to have a shot at that label. Even then it might not 67 on the first couple of tries. I don't see this as a lock 67. Maybe a lock 66, maybe.
At the 66 level I see no reason to slab the coin. Put her in a good safe container and let it sell itself without the issue of having to cover the cost of the coin plus ALL the other associated slabbing costs.

leothelyon

The obverse doesn't look like it came off the front end of a freshly stamped working die but the reverse does. I believe it's known the obverse working die, the hammer side, wears down faster than the reverse. I suspect your coin was intended for mass production/circulation, thus not a collector coin.

BryceM

<< <i>I suspect your coin was intended for mass production/circulation, thus not a collector coin. >>



Huh? Is it only permissable to collect proof coins?

I only collect business strikes and a few SMS issues - coins intended for circulation. Is that OK?

tlake22

I think the hits really detract from the coin.I'm at a 65

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>I suspect your coin was intended for mass production/circulation, thus not a collector coin. >>



Huh? Is it only permissable to collect proof coins?

I only collect business strikes and a few SMS issues - coins intended for circulation. Is that OK? >>



Once a working die starts to show wear or begins losing its details, it's very likely the hammer pressure was reduced to extend the life of the die and to produce as many coins possible to meet their quotas. Does that help?

Jcarney

Leo, perhaps you're thinking the coins produced for mint sets in the '50 were struck differently/specially than ordinary business strikes. Other than being handled differently (thus less bag marks) and being placed in cardboard, the mint set coins of this era are indestinguishable from their working cousins.

Coiny

My guess is also MS66 with +50% chance of FBL.

Here's a couple from my collection that maybe worth comparing. MS67FBL vs MS66*FBL.

NGC 67 FBL


NGC 66*FBL

Mercury10c

Here's another 67, for comparison purposes. Not FBL. But it does have a sticker

leothelyon

<< <i>Leo, perhaps you're thinking the coins produced for mint sets in the '50 were struck differently/specially than ordinary business strikes. Other than being handled differently (thus less bag marks) and being placed in cardboard, the mint set coins of this era are indestinguishable from their working cousins. >>



No..............every collector will have their own definition of what a collector coin should be. All one has to do is search the Teletrade or Heritage archives to see earlier struck examples. In this case, the 1958-D to see the 3 wisps of hair by the ear, narrower sharply struck letters and date and finer hair detail on Franklin portrait. But regardless of the state of the dies, whether the coin has an early strike or is an inbetweener or just plain mushy, they all end up in holders.

Jcarney

<< <i>

<< <i>Leo, perhaps you're thinking the coins produced for mint sets in the '50 were struck differently/specially than ordinary business strikes. Other than being handled differently (thus less bag marks) and being placed in cardboard, the mint set coins of this era are indestinguishable from their working cousins. >>



No..............every collector will have their own definition of what a collector coin should be. All one has to do is search the Teletrade or Heritage archives to see earlier struck examples. In this case, the 1958-D to see the 3 wisps of hair by the ear, narrower sharply struck letters and date and finer hair detail on Franklin portrait. But regardless of the state of the dies, whether the coin has an early strike or is an inbetweener or just plain mushy, they all end up in holders. >>



Ok, I see what you're saying. You prefer EDS coins as opposed to coins struck by later state dies. That's fine and you tend to wind up with more detail on the coin. However, the TPGs don't distinguish between die states on Franklins grade-wise and the luster on later die states is usually much superior.

leothelyon

But regardless of the state of the dies, whether the coin has an early strike or is an inbetweener or just plain mushy, they all end up in holders.


However, the TPGs don't distinguish between die states on Franklins grade-wise and the luster on later die states is usually much superior.

You can say that again!

I'll stay with my more detailed example until an even more better one comes along, last coin shown in row 18 in link below.

johnny9434

<< <i>Definitely worth submitting...Cheers, RickO >>

with fbl to

bestday

<< <i>What I would expect a 67 FBL to look like PCGS 67 FBL

Rick has a bunch of 58-D's, a few 67 FBL's and nothing over MS65 has any hits.

I go with what a few others said @MS65 and possibly FBL. >>



Wow .. I have several FBLs purchased in the 80's from RenRob coins.. the FBLs toned nicely sitting in a drawer all these years.. off to PCGS in the new year..
coins were personally hand picked the the owner of Renrob.. I had several pleasant conversations with the real nice gentleman.. shame he passed away in such a violent manner

Jcarney

<< <i>

<< <i>What I would expect a 67 FBL to look like PCGS 67 FBL

Rick has a bunch of 58-D's, a few 67 FBL's and nothing over MS65 has any hits.

I go with what a few others said @MS65 and possibly FBL. >>



Wow .. I have several FBLs purchased in the 80's from RenRob coins.. the FBLs toned nicely sitting in a drawer all these years.. off to PCGS in the new year..
coins were personally hand picked the the owner of Renrob.. I had several pleasant conversations with the real nice gentleman.. shame he passed away in such a violent manner >>



Can you post some pic?

coinguy1989

<< <i>

<< <i> Hit-wise, Stephanie's Franklin is a solid 66.....if the luster is there. >>



And therein lies the problem. I don't believe the luster to be all there and the dark toning on the obverse appears to have muted the luster. Moreover the obverse has diminished eye appeal; thus, I would grade it MS65 FBL.

bestday

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>What I would expect a 67 FBL to look like PCGS 67 FBL

Rick has a bunch of 58-D's, a few 67 FBL's and nothing over MS65 has any hits.

I go with what a few others said @MS65 and possibly FBL. >>



Wow .. I have several FBLs purchased in the 80's from RenRob coins.. the FBLs toned nicely sitting in a drawer all these years.. off to PCGS in the new year..
coins were personally hand picked the the owner of Renrob.. I had several pleasant conversations with the real nice gentleman.. shame he passed away in such a violent manner >>



Can you post some pic? >>



I will try with a Samsung 111.. Renrob sold FBLs ....... not some of the FBLs I see that may pass as a probable FBL