Anybody have any tips on determining if a wax pack has been resealed?

frankhardy

Can anybody here share any details on determining if a wax pack has been resealed? I do know about the factory roll marks need to be lined up. But, can't a "resealer" simply line up those roller marks when resealing?

I am going to slowly add to my Topps unopened pack run. Until yesterday, I had every series and traded pack from 2012 down to 1985. Yesterday, I received 5 packs of 1984 Topps from a seemingly reliable seller on Ebay. I opened 4 of them to see how legit they were. The roll marks lined up. Everything looked to be good except....the best card I got was a Tom Seaver. I guess that is possible. However, you would think that I would at least get a semi star out of the bunch. Not that I needed any of these cards. I was just looking for legitimacy.

Any tips would be appreciated.

llafoe

If you purchase a pack from someone other than BBCE, it's been resealed! Next question?

DCanfield

Determining the integrity of a wax pack is hard. Obviously, roller lines and corner folds are important. However, determining a reseal with the naked eye is not always possible.
Here's an example. While at the National this year I showed some packs to Steve Hart from BBCE and asked his opinion. I had obtained them from a major auction house about 15 years ago. After looking at them carefully, he felt they were good. I proceeded across the aisle to the PSA booth and submitted them (along with a lot of others). Needless to say, those packs came back as no good. I contacted Steve to ask what happened and he said that when they got them in back at the store (via PSA) they were able to put them under some high intensity illumination and magnification and fingerprints were evident. Not visible to the naked eye but seen with the right equipment. Unless you have that same equipment and a lot of expertise, there is always a chance of some hanky panky. Sometimes paying a little extra from someone like Steve is well worth it for peace of mind.

There are members of this board who have unopened material that they have owned since new (or have bought from sources beyond reproach) that you can safely buy from. Good luck as you build your collection.

Doug

llafoe

<< <i>Determining the integrity of a wax pack is hard. Obviously, roller lines and corner folds are important. However, determining a reseal with the naked eye is not always possible.
Here's an example. While at the National this year I showed some packs to Steve Hart from BBCE and asked his opinion. I had obtained them from a major auction house about 15 years ago. After looking at them carefully, he felt they were good. I proceeded across the aisle to the PSA booth and submitted them (along with a lot of others). Needless to say, those packs came back as no good. I contacted Steve to ask what happened and he said that when they got them in back at the store (via PSA) they were able to put them under some high intensity illumination and magnification and fingerprints were evident. Not visible to the naked eye but seen with the right equipment. Unless you have that same equipment and a lot of expertise, there is always a chance of some hanky panky. Sometimes paying a little extra from someone like Steve is well worth it for peace of mind.

There are members of this board who have unopened material that they have owned since new (or have bought from sources beyond reproach) that you can safely buy from. Good luck as you build your collection.

Doug >>



Did you open the packs after you learned they were resealed?

DCanfield

NO. There was a number of '51 redback packs and I have a 51 Topps box that came with them so I placed them back in the box for display. If I ever choose to sell the box I certainly would disclose that the packs are considered resealed (I have no plans to sell as I like to collect boxes too).

bishop

Shane--- on older packs check for finger prints on the gum

llafoe

<< <i>Shane--- on older packs check for finger prints on the gum >>



Ooooohhhhh! Open the pack, check for finger prints on the gum, then reseal. Why didn't I think of that?!

frankhardy

I am pretty sure that he meant for me to check the gum on the packs that I opened. Good idea. I will do that.

PaulMaul

I'm an avid collector of unopened Wacky Packages material (and more recently baseball material). I spent the years 2001-2008 buying tons of fake and re-sealed unopened packs on ebay and from people I considered to be trusted sellers. It was a very bitter lesson, but I learned many things about unopened material along the way:

1. Don't assume because a pack is worth $20 or less it won't be faked

2. The surest way to peace of mind with more valuable unopened packs is some kind of provenance that suggests legitimacy, though that's not always possible

As far as actually spotting fake wax, there are several ways to fake packs, some of which are very obvious, others less so.

1. An iron or other heat source can be used to re-seal the pack. This is the easiest to spot, because the original roller marks are destroyed making it obvious the pack is fake. This can be done a little more subtly, but usually there will be an evident interruption in the wax roller lines crossing the seal.

2. Glue can be used. This makes it less obvious just inspecting the back, but gently separating a flap slightly from the pack will usually reveal the glue.

3. Often with fake packs, the wrapper will exhibit wear inconsistent with an original undisturbed pack, such as wrinkles and folds away from the edges and corners. Also, fakes will often appear "too perfect" in how they are wrapped.

Sadly, the most important factor is the experience of handling a high volume of packs, both real and fake. I've gotten to the point now where I can just tell in most cases without thinking too hard. There are always exceptions, and I've resolved not to buy if there's any doubt in my mind.

If there are more sophisticated ways to re-seal than these, I'm eager to keep learning. When I finally wised up and discovered all the fakes in my collection in 2009 I considered giving up this area of collecting, but I'm glad I didn't. I replaced nearly all the fakes I discovered, and have more peace of mind and more enjoyment of unopened material than ever before.

frankhardy

Very good information. Thanks.

I just bought a run of 1980 to 1991 Topps from BBCE for my unopened pack run. I will use those as a guide as well.

mygotta

My experience with BBCE has been excellent. I have purchased some packs from 79 on eBay and they came back as tampered. I'm sure there is legit stuff on eBay but I am hesitant to pay a lot for some of it. Stuff like this I am a little weary of:

1978 Wax Box

this seller has a lot of sealed stuff. But I dont know much about them.

1978 wax packs

grote15

Seal on back and roller lines should line up on back and more importantly the "pattern" of the melted wax should not be disturbed. Corner folds are also a tell tale sign as it is very difficult to recreate those tight folds once a pack has been opened. Also, be familiar with the gum sizes Topps used during the era of issue--while vintage cards and wrappers are readibly available for any particular year, many resealers have difficulty acquiring the gum from that year and substitute either skinny late 80s wax gum or shatter the gum to throw you off. For the 1970s, for example, Topps used much thicker gum than they did in the mid to late 80s. To a lesser extent, the wrapper, if the pack is original, should retain some of its original gloss and not exhibit wear or creasing in unusual places.

Yankees001

That's easy. Just open it. If you get all commons, it was resealed.

DCanfield

<< <i>Seal on back and roller lines should line up on back and more importantly the "pattern" of the melted wax should not be disturbed. Corner folds are also a tell tale sign as it is very difficult to recreate those tight folds once a pack has been opened. Also, be familiar with the gum sizes Topps used during the era of issue--while vintage cards and wrappers are readibly available for any particular year, many resealers have difficulty acquiring the gum from that year and substitute either skinny late 80s wax gum or shatter the gum to throw you off. For the 1970s, for example, Topps used much thicker gum than they did in the mid to late 80s. To a lesser extent, the wrapper, if the pack is original, should retain some of its original gloss and not exhibit wear or creasing in unusual places. >>



Tim's checklist is spot on. Just remember, caveat emptor. Even the best are not 100%; maybe 99%+ but not perfect at spotting reseals. Provenance and reputation are worth the premium. Just like there are a lot of fake autographs out there, so too with unopened material. It's a shame, but that's how it is.

PaulMaul

<< <i>That's easy. Just open it. If you get all commons, it was resealed. >>



I bought two packs of 1973 baseball on ebay in 2002. I opened one and some of the cards had pencil writing on the fronts. Is that a bad sign?

Planemonkey

hi ya'll

Baez578

BBG...any tips?

Giantsdude24

I am basically at the point where unless the pack is encapsulated in a PSA holder and being sold on BBCE website, or purchased from one of a very small group of CU forum sellers, it is resealed. I do not even mess with ebay, or my LCS anymore.

gtrwzz

<< <i>I am basically at the point where unless the pack is encapsulated in a PSA holder and being sold on BBCE website, or purchased from one of a very small group of CU forum sellers, it is resealed. I do not even mess with ebay, or my LCS anymore. >>



I agree with you 110%... Usually IT IS VERY DIFFICULT to tell if a wax pack has been resealed... If you open a wax pack and the cards look suspicious, I would say that the pack was resealed. Suspicious means that the pack might contain cards from a different series, which has happened to me... You might see gum on one side of the pack, but the card with the gum stain is on the opposite side.. Also, the cards might have damage that could only be from handling the cards...All in all, I would not buy any ungraded packs from any sellers...

MintMoondog

<< <i>I am basically at the point where unless the pack is encapsulated in a PSA holder and being sold on BBCE website, or purchased from one of a very small group of CU forum sellers, it is resealed. I do not even mess with ebay, or my LCS anymore. >>



+100

lightningboy

the best card I got was a Tom Seaver. I guess that is possible. However, you would think that I would at least get a semi star out of the bunch.

Did I miss something in one of the posts where someone pointed out that Tom Seaver is actually bigger than a semi star?

Mapleleaf

I bought a box of 1980 Topps on ebay. First pack I opened had wax on the third card down. The second had two of the same player. I'm not sure why it took me two packs before contacting the seller who quietly took the box back. He claimed it came from BBCE but I highly doubt that.

gregmo32

You do have to remember that there are 792 cards in the set and that, at one point, Tom Seaver got a higher percentage of votes for the HOF than any player to come up for induction before him.

mcolney1

<< <i>I bought a box of 1980 Topps on ebay. First pack I opened had wax on the third card down. The second had two of the same player. I'm not sure why it took me two packs before contacting the seller who quietly took the box back. He claimed it came from BBCE but I highly doubt that. >>



Possibly true, many breaks ago we got a bad batch of 1980 Topps Baseball that fooled Steve. Of course, Steve and BBCE made it right and that is why I only buy ungraded packs from him! Lucky the seller took the box back.

cpamike

<< <i>

<< <i>I bought a box of 1980 Topps on ebay. First pack I opened had wax on the third card down. The second had two of the same player. I'm not sure why it took me two packs before contacting the seller who quietly took the box back. He claimed it came from BBCE but I highly doubt that. >>



Possibly true, many breaks ago we got a bad batch of 1980 Topps Baseball that fooled Steve. Of course, Steve and BBCE made it right and that is why I only buy ungraded packs from him! Lucky the seller took the box back. >>



From history, sellers on eBay will take the box back to avoid negative feedback as that would sink them even if they didn't know. Of course, if they are the resealer they will even refund the return shipping and will give you the name of a reputable source they got it from.