Secret Service demands eBay remove all Norfed Liberty dollars (1 oz silver coins) as counterfeits

vibr0nic · December 5, 2012 2:11PM

Spotted on another forum.

eBay removed over 19 listings of this one seller, and sent this person a letter saying:

"Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because of the following:

The United States Secret Service has requested the removal of all Norfed Liberty

dollars on the eBay site as counterfeits. If you have any questions you can contact

them at the US Secret Service Public Affairs Office – 202-406-5708.

Please do not relist this item(s)."

1jester · December 5, 2012 6:55PM

What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.

derryb · December 5, 2012 10:30PM

Maybe keeping the work "Norfed" out of the listing will help. "Liberty silver rounds."

OPA · December 5, 2012 11:39PM

Time to send them all to the smelter before the Feds confiscates them & the owner ends up in the "big-house."

tneig · December 6, 2012 1:28AM

Brave man or a fool? It's hard to tell.
I don't think the coin is really much of the underlying issue. There are plenty of look alikes and various coins out there now.

He was bucking the system and shoving it back in their faces. Taunting the bear is dangerous, even if you feel the bear is in your face.

Agree or disagree with interpreting the laws and applying the rules aside, Nothaus seemed to have kept pushing to the point of his own demise.. From the twiki page, I'm not sure if he is currently in jail or not?

piecesofme · December 6, 2012 3:55AM

I think it stems from D. Carr putting denominations on his silver bars. At least that's what I got from reading further on than the first post of the thread provided.

DrBuster · December 6, 2012 5:49AM

Anybody got an extra one??

PerryHall · December 6, 2012 6:12AM

<< I think it stems from D. Carr putting denominations on his silver bars. At least that's what I got from reading further on than the first post of the thread provided. >>

I've never seen a silver bar made by Dan Carr. Can someone post a pic?

WestySteve · December 6, 2012 6:27AM

<< Anybody got an extra one?? >>

x2

Justacommeman · December 6, 2012 6:58AM

DP.........whoops

MJ

Justacommeman · December 6, 2012 6:58AM

<< 

<< 

<< I think it stems from D. Carr putting denominations on his silver bars. At least that's what I got from reading further on than the first post of the thread provided. >>

I've never seen a silver bar made by Dan Carr. Can someone post a pic? >>

Just one of the limited bars he offered. MJ

>>

cladking · December 6, 2012 7:11AM

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.
>>

They won't do anything about a stream of counterfeits coming in from China intended
to decieve and defrauding thousands of people out of significant amounts of money but
move against the silver that we ourselves are supposed to be minting according to the
Constitution and which aren't intended to decieve and for which no one is losing money.

I think I'll take another look at that "Mayan prophesy".

OPA · December 6, 2012 12:19PM

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.

>>

You need to brush up on your history lesson. Most sections of the act have been superseded, as for example the Coinage Act of 1834 changing the silver-to-gold weight ratio. Various acts have subsequently been passed affecting the amount and type of metal in U. S. coins, so that today there is no legal definition of the term "dollar" to be found in U. S. statute. Current statutes regulating coinage in the United States may be found in Title 31 of the United States Code.

roadrunner · December 6, 2012 12:35PM

The constitution requires that states only allow gold or silver coin to be used for payment of debts.

Until they ammend the constitution to say otherwise..................................

"Houston.......we have a problem."

1jester · December 6, 2012 2:28PM

<< 

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.

>>

You need to brush up on your history lesson. Most sections of the act have been superseded, as for example the Coinage Act of 1834 changing the silver-to-gold weight ratio. Various acts have subsequently been passed affecting the amount and type of metal in U. S. coins, so that today there is no legal definition of the term "dollar" to be found in U. S. statute. Current statutes regulating coinage in the United States may be found in Title 31 of the United States Code. >>

Roadrunner is correct. As far as my degree in history tells me, the United States still operates, at least officially, under the Constitution.

piecesofme · December 6, 2012 5:07PM

I've never seen a silver bar made by Dan Carr. Can someone post a pic?

link takes you to eBay, look on the reverse of the bar, says 40 Dollars

OPA · December 6, 2012 9:47PM

<< 

<< 

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.

>>

You need to brush up on your history lesson. Most sections of the act have been superseded, as for example the Coinage Act of 1834 changing the silver-to-gold weight ratio. Various acts have subsequently been passed affecting the amount and type of metal in U. S. coins, so that today there is no legal definition of the term "dollar" to be found in U. S. statute. Current statutes regulating coinage in the United States may be found in Title 31 of the United States Code. >>

Roadrunner is correct. As far as my degree in history tells me, the United States still operates, at least officially, under the Constitution.

>>

I'm not disputing that, however what you originally referenced, was superseded long ago and is no longer applicable.

RR...When was the last time that States used PM's to settle their debts? Last time I checked we are in the 21st Century & not the 19th.

MsMorrisine · December 7, 2012 12:49PM

bogus. either they seize them, or let them trade.

choose one. (let them trade)

now they are allowing possession of counterfeits they went to court to say they are counterfeits. And when they know they are couhterfeits on eBay they only ask to remove the listings?????

1jester · December 7, 2012 10:50PM

Opa, you and I both are aware that there are tons of unconstitutional laws on the books. How are we as a people going to justify these laws, or make an attempt to make them comply with the Constitution? Otherwise, as I see it, our Constitution is dead and we allow the criminals and their cronies in gov't to do whatever they like. That is in fact already reality. Why do we as a people even pretend the Constitution still exists?

MsMorrisine · December 8, 2012 12:27AM

file suit in court.

Baley · December 8, 2012 1:51AM

<< Why do we as a people even pretend the Constitution still exists? >>

We as a people do a lot of pretending that stuff written in old books is fact, and that the things described in them are literally true.

piecesofme · December 8, 2012 4:00AM

We as a people do a lot of pretending that stuff written in old books is fact, and that the things described in them are literally true.

And I'll add on to that by saying that one of the only things that was written a very long time still applies to today, the Bible because of who the Author was.
Not every single thing that is in the Constitution does, or should apply to todays world in literal terms. It's a base, a starting point. And with any starting point, different paths can be taken as it evolves to better the base of what the intention was.
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I felt it needed to be said.

MsMorrisine · December 8, 2012 6:55AM

without going into specific parts, he Constitution must stand. if it needs adjustment, the amend it, do not ignore it.

file suit if you thin FRNs are illegal and gold and silver are money, but that pare says the states can make people take other forms of payment, just gold and silver, further protecting congressional rights in money formation.

cladking · December 8, 2012 7:11AM

<< file suit in court. >>

Not to put too fine a point on it but I don't believe you can hear a federal case in a state court and
under the Articles of Confederation the only legal courts are state courts at this time. The Constitution
wasn't legally adopted to start with.

But they aren't going to undo 220 years of reinterpretation to change anything.

CaptHenway · December 8, 2012 9:31AM

<< I've never seen a silver bar made by Dan Carr. Can someone post a pic?

link takes you to eBay, look on the reverse of the bar, says 40 Dollars >>

That's pretty. That said, I can see where government bureaucrats could have trouble with the denomination on it. Better to call it "40 Henways" or something else equally non-existent.

1970SilverArt · December 9, 2012 9:21AM

I still occasionally see some Norfed Liberty Dollars at some of the coin shows that I go to and I saw a few of them at the main LCS that I go to. I suspect that those will be around for a while longer.

Frankcoins · December 9, 2012 2:16PM

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.

>>

Coinage Acts of 1836, 1873, 1965 among others have superseded the original law. The Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate the value of money.

Frankcoins · December 9, 2012 2:20PM

<< Brave man or a fool? It's hard to tell.
I don't think the coin is really much of the underlying issue. There are plenty of look alikes and various coins out there now.

He was bucking the system and shoving it back in their faces. Taunting the bear is dangerous, even if you feel the bear is in your face.

Agree or disagree with interpreting the laws and applying the rules aside, Nothaus seemed to have kept pushing to the point of his own demise.. From the twiki page, I'm not sure if he is currently in jail or not? >>

That's for sure. Still calling it "real money" on his legal defense page where he was on trial for trying to pass the medals as "real money."

bronco2078 · January 2, 2013 10:56PM

Are they just pulling the silver rounds? I just saw this Norfed paper money on ebay it seems like they let it run its course

silver certificates

derryb · January 2, 2013 11:07PM

He should have claimed the dollar amount was a suggested retail price, not a value. Many sellers of precious metals claim them to be "real money."

Secret Service is sending a message at the direction of someone, probably Treasury Dept. Just a matter of time before the message is expanded to other forms of "real money."

fishcooker · January 3, 2013 2:50AM

Weren't the first coins $5 face, or something like that, when silver was $4/oz? The joke was definitely on those who accepted them and kept them.

derryb · January 3, 2013 11:46AM

Guess they will be going after these next, they even claim to be legal tender on the note:

Frankcoins · May 3, 2013 3:37AM

<< 

He was bucking the system and shoving it back in their faces. Taunting the bear is dangerous, even if you feel the bear is in your face.

Agree or disagree with interpreting the laws and applying the rules aside, Nothaus seemed to have kept pushing to the point of his own demise.. From the twiki page, I'm not sure if he is currently in jail or not? >>

What doomed them was their explicit instructions how to try and SPEND these as legal tender:

HOW TO SPEND THE LIBERTY DOLLAR COINS - JUST DO THE DROP!

1. Please don't attempt to educate people about money when using Liberty Dollars.

2. Although prudence would seem to indicate that people would refuse a currency they've never seen, this is simply not the case. After thousands of transactions, the Liberty Dollar is accepted much of the time it is offered.

3. In many localities the Liberty Dollar is widely accepted. If businesses in your community are not familiar with the currency, you should simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it be? It's the same when you, as a merchant, hand it out as change. If the person doesn't want it, they'll tell you and you can simply use greenbacks.

4. "Do the Drop!" The best way to introduce the Liberty Dollar is to drop the one-ounce $50 Silver Liberty in someone's hand. Do not hand it to them. Drop it! Hold the Silver Liberty a couple inches above their outreached palm and drop it so it lands flat in the person's palm.

5. Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says FIFTY DOLLARS. If you are asked anything, just keep your answers short. Remember to KISS - Keep it Short and Simple.

6. When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, pure silver, 50 Liberty Dollars." Do not rush. Just stand there and wait, patiently. No need to smile. Just wait.

7. After 30 seconds, say, "I have the paper [show them greenbacks], but would like to give you some silver." If they hand it back immediately, just give them greenbacks. If you're a merchant making change with Liberty Dollars, be sure your customer knows they can come back and spend them with you. That's the whole idea! Give the customer a copy of your local Liberty Merchant Directory (if you have one) and a Liberty Dollar brochure so they can learn more and see all the other places they can spend Liberty Dollars.

JamesMurray · May 3, 2013 3:42AM

<< 

<< What a crock! And Federal Reserve Notes are not counterfeits? They claim to be Dollars, but are not. A Dollar is defined in the Coinage Act of 1792. The Secret Service should go after the real counterfeiters in this case.
>>

They won't do anything about a stream of counterfeits coming in from China intended
to decieve and defrauding thousands of people out of significant amounts of money but
move against the silver that we ourselves are supposed to be minting according to the
Constitution and which aren't intended to decieve and for which no one is losing money.

I think I'll take another look at that "Mayan prophesy". >>

The next time you see someone crying about Chinese fakes , consider this story and be glad your not chinese and it's only coins we need worry about.
Dinner is served

Baley · May 3, 2013 6:31AM

<< 

<< 

He was bucking the system and shoving it back in their faces. Taunting the bear is dangerous, even if you feel the bear is in your face.

Agree or disagree with interpreting the laws and applying the rules aside, Nothaus seemed to have kept pushing to the point of his own demise.. From the twiki page, I'm not sure if he is currently in jail or not? >>

What doomed them was their explicit instructions how to try and SPEND these as legal tender:

HOW TO SPEND THE LIBERTY DOLLAR COINS - JUST DO THE DROP!

1. Please don't attempt to educate people about money when using Liberty Dollars.

2. Although prudence would seem to indicate that people would refuse a currency they've never seen, this is simply not the case. After thousands of transactions, the Liberty Dollar is accepted much of the time it is offered.

3. In many localities the Liberty Dollar is widely accepted. If businesses in your community are not familiar with the currency, you should simply offer The Liberty Dollar with the confidence that it will be accepted. After all, why wouldn't it be? It's the same when you, as a merchant, hand it out as change. If the person doesn't want it, they'll tell you and you can simply use greenbacks.

4. "Do the Drop!" The best way to introduce the Liberty Dollar is to drop the one-ounce $50 Silver Liberty in someone's hand. Do not hand it to them. Drop it! Hold the Silver Liberty a couple inches above their outreached palm and drop it so it lands flat in the person's palm.

5. Now the hardest part - don't say anything! Just wait. Let the person marvel at its beauty, weight, and discover it says FIFTY DOLLARS. If you are asked anything, just keep your answers short. Remember to KISS - Keep it Short and Simple.

6. When asked "Is it real?" Answer: "Yes, pure silver, 50 Liberty Dollars." Do not rush. Just stand there and wait, patiently. No need to smile. Just wait.

7. After 30 seconds, say, "I have the paper [show them greenbacks], but would like to give you some silver." If they hand it back immediately, just give them greenbacks. If you're a merchant making change with Liberty Dollars, be sure your customer knows they can come back and spend them with you. That's the whole idea! Give the customer a copy of your local Liberty Merchant Directory (if you have one) and a Liberty Dollar brochure so they can learn more and see all the other places they can spend Liberty Dollars. >>

Wai.. Wha?

They encouraged people to "spend" an ounce of silver as $50? And get change, presumably regular cash, if the amount was less than $50?

That's not gonna fly

jmski52 · May 3, 2013 6:35AM

That doesn't make the Norfed coin a counterfeit. It only makes the guy who is trying to pass it off as $50 a fraud.

Frankcoins · May 3, 2013 12:01PM

<< That doesn't make the Norfed coin a counterfeit. It only makes the guy who is trying to pass it off as $50 a fraud. >>

When things get "called to attention" everyting can go bad quickly, which is why most coin collectors value privacy.

and THAT's what brought the whole Norfed thing down. A drunk guy and his son tried to buy more beer at a Sabers/Islanders hockey
game at HSBC stadium, told the vendors that the Liberty Dollars were better than counterfeit paper from the Jew-controlled
FED, then pushed a security guard who turned out to be an off duty Buffalo racket squad detective, then the son pulled out
a fake ID and badge identifying himself as a Federal agent immune to arrest.....

Secret Service demands eBay remove all Norfed Liberty dollars (1 oz silver coins) as counterfeits

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