Liquidated all ultra long paper silver late last week (Friday, thanks to PoM ). Jumped on the ultra short side. Waiting to see how low we can go. Any insight PoM?
I would have to guess that confidence in the government has been restored, all of the bailout money has been paid back, the debt has disappeared, and all of the jobs are coming back in addition to free housing, free food, free birth control, free childcare, free phones, free education, and of course - free health care.
If that's not it, what else could it be?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Maybe an early selloff for those wanting to capture gains in 2012? With the changing tax structure next year, anything is fair game to get whacked by years end. Enjoy the ride
I would have to guess that confidence in the government has been restored, all of the bailout money has been paid back, the debt has disappeared, and all of the jobs are coming back in addition to free housing, free food, free birth control, free childcare, free phones, free education, and of course - free health care.
If that's not it, what else could it be? >>
you forgot the most important thing to everyone: free gold !
probably all the buyers and sellers have the exact same reason as each other for doing what they're doing, and maybe tomorrow they will all change their collective mind together again
I've heard CNBC analyst state that somewhere in the range of $1.25B of gold was dumped near opening. They speculated a hedge fund was locking in a 9% yearly gain at present tax rates. Who knows.
<< <i>I've heard CNBC analyst state that somewhere in the range of $1.25B of gold was dumped near opening. They speculated a hedge fund was locking in a 9% yearly gain at present tax rates. Who knows. >>
Look for profit taking at lower capital gains tax rates to affect most liquid investments between now and end of the year. These same sellers will be turning right around (when they smell a bottom) and buying back, at a higher basis, what they sold.
I wouldn't call anything dropping to $1695 from $1720 tanking.
Selling in 2012 at a lower tax rate makes a lot of sense for a lot of people especially if you are sitting on huge paper profits in PM's
103 publicly traded companies are issuing special dividends in December to beat the clock and pay lower taxes.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There are more buyers. But the few big sellers sell in bulk for maximum effect, with no intent of getting the best price for their shares. However, this makes their short side trade much more valuable when they eventally cover those on the dip.
Look for profit taking at lower capital gains tax rates to affect most liquid investments between now and end of the year
This is news? This happens like clockwork this time of year a big percentage of the time. Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
This is in part why i've been selling all "generic" silver for a couple months now, building cash to purchase old pour bars with the hope of them dropping a bit. To be very honest from my experience, it hasn't been the case, so my plan isn't going quite as planned. The bid on old pour bars have increased during this time because I think the overall trend is up, not down. Today may start a trend downward but more time is obviously needed to confirm that.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
<< <i>Look for profit taking at lower capital gains tax rates to affect most liquid investments between now and end of the year
This is news? This happens like clockwork this time of year a big percentage of the time. Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
This is in part why i've been selling all "generic" silver for a couple months now, building cash to purchase old pour bars with the hope of them dropping a bit. To be very honest from my experience, it hasn't been the case, so my plan isn't going quite as planned. The bid on old pour bars have increased during this time because I think the overall trend is up, not down. Today may start a trend downward but more time is obviously needed to confirm that. >>
This IS news because of the added uniqueness of the upcoming tax rate increase effective 2013, something that has not occurred in many years.
<< <i>Nice looking Saint---well struck and very free of contact marks with the look of a much higher grade. Old double eagles are a great way to buy gold. >>
Purdy old gold.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
This IS news because of the added uniqueness of the upcoming tax rate increase effective 2013, something that has not occurred in many years
Perhaps you didn't read on just one more sentence to see that I say?
Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
Metals coming down through both October and November, and now part way into December is quite unusual. And even more unusual if they decide to stay flat or down for all of December as well. And based on the events coming up over the next 2-3 weeks, that could very well happen (fomc, back to back treasury auctions, 3rd Friday of the month is equity expiration + Mayan EOTWAWKI, futures expiration). Unusual to see a back to back to back weekly setup like this. I'm sure the big banks will take advantage of it.
<< <i>I wish I had more time to debate this and show that a sell off of metals in December is nothing new. I apologize, but life calls. >>
A sell off in December is nothing new. What is somewhat unusual is a sell off/consolidation lasting from October into December (ie > 2 months). I had to go back to 2001 to find something that was fairly similar.
I think Nov6 2012 and Jan1 2013 have a lot of influence in what we've seen with the metals this Fall. Down is fine by me as I'll take a buying opportunity.
If the stock market were selling off along with gold, I could understand that as something similar to 2008 when the market crashed over the Bear Stearns & Lehman Brothers liquidity panic - but that's not the case.
POM could be correct in that uncertainty over the fake fiscal cliff debate is causing gold to go down, but then I'd also expect the stock market to be trembling as well. Something else seems to be operating.
Given the fact that Obama wants authority to effectively take Congress out of the equation as it concerns the debt ceiling, and given the fact that $85 billion of "unsterilized" debt, i.e. monetized debt, is being pumped into the system now - my opinion would be that gold isn't reacting to anything fundamental.
That doesn't obviate the fact that it's down, but it doesn't give me reason to think that anything has really changed in terms of policy or market dynamics either.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Personally, and in the small circle of folks that I talk to outside of here about metal, I / folks think the big boys are taking gains out of metal now until the end of year action settles down and everybody knows what the future tax implications are going to be. That would make sense to me anyway, parking in cash for a bit until all this cliffcrapola gets taken care of and we know what to finally, really expect for a while.
Stocks are staying up/safe as retirement funds aren't moving around so much maybe...and the borg trading algorithms are keeping the paltry humans in line for a while longer?
<< <i>This IS news because of the added uniqueness of the upcoming tax rate increase effective 2013, something that has not occurred in many years
Perhaps you didn't read on just one more sentence to see that I say?
Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone. >>
Your "uncertainty of the cliff" has nothing to do with expiring tax cuts. Expiring tax cuts are why many investors are taking profits at a lower tax rate. If anything "cliff uncertainty" should be fueling metal demand and higher prices. "Fiscal Cliff" is just a new name for what has been fueling the metal fire for years.
Senex
Posts: 483 ✭
Comments
sub-$1700. Do I smell a buying opportunity?
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>sub-$1700. Do I smell a buying opportunity?
If we can stay below 1700 the price of those coins from the mint come down a bit.
Liquidated all ultra long paper silver late last week (Friday, thanks to PoM
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I would have to guess that confidence in the government has been restored, all of the bailout money has been paid back, the debt has disappeared, and all of the jobs are coming back in addition to free housing, free food, free birth control, free childcare, free phones, free education, and of course - free health care.
If that's not it, what else could it be?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Off about $25 so far. Why? >>
Because I added about 5 ounces this month.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>More sellers than buyers. Like always. >>
The voice of reason.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>Why?
I would have to guess that confidence in the government has been restored, all of the bailout money has been paid back, the debt has disappeared, and all of the jobs are coming back in addition to free housing, free food, free birth control, free childcare, free phones, free education, and of course - free health care.
If that's not it, what else could it be?
you forgot the most important thing to everyone: free gold !
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>More sellers than buyers. Like always. >>
The voice of reason. >>
It can't be that simple...must be some type of conspiracy manipulation.
<< <i>More sellers than buyers. Like always. >>
Obviously. So, why are there more sellers than buyers? I'm guessing there is concern with the tax rate being much higher next year.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I'll just treat it as an early Christmas Present...................
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>Off about $25 so far. Why? >>
Seriously, do you think the answer will change things?
Personally, I don't care what the answer is because I'm not one bit concerned if the price drops by $2, $20 or $200 overnight.
Just keep buying PM's and relax.
Politicians, central banks and governments are printing money....end of story.
One last thing...don't be concerned about price, be concerned about OUNCES (how many you have!!)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Tempted to do some buying. >>
Just do it (insert Nike swoosh here)
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
I've heard CNBC analyst state that somewhere in the range of $1.25B of gold was dumped near opening. They speculated a hedge fund was locking in a 9% yearly gain at present tax rates. Who knows.
<< <i>I've heard CNBC analyst state that somewhere in the range of $1.25B of gold was dumped near opening. They speculated a hedge fund was locking in a 9% yearly gain at present tax rates. Who knows. >>
Look for profit taking at lower capital gains tax rates to affect most liquid investments between now and end of the year. These same sellers will be turning right around (when they smell a bottom) and buying back, at a higher basis, what they sold.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Selling in 2012 at a lower tax rate makes a lot of sense for a lot of people especially if you are sitting on huge paper profits in PM's
103 publicly traded companies are issuing special dividends in December to beat the clock and pay lower taxes.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>More sellers than buyers. Like always. >>
But why are there more sellers than buyers?
Personally I hope the price goes lower for the next few days, 'cause I'm in a buying mood!
<< <i>More sellers than buyers. Like always. >>
There are more buyers. But the few big sellers sell in bulk for maximum effect, with no intent of getting the best price for their shares. However, this makes
their short side trade much more valuable when they eventally cover those on the dip.
This is news? This happens like clockwork this time of year a big percentage of the time. Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
This is in part why i've been selling all "generic" silver for a couple months now, building cash to purchase old pour bars with the hope of them dropping a bit.
To be very honest from my experience, it hasn't been the case, so my plan isn't going quite as planned. The bid on old pour bars have increased during this time because I think the overall trend is up, not down. Today may start a trend downward but more time is obviously needed to confirm that.
<< <i>Look for profit taking at lower capital gains tax rates to affect most liquid investments between now and end of the year
This is news? This happens like clockwork this time of year a big percentage of the time. Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
This is in part why i've been selling all "generic" silver for a couple months now, building cash to purchase old pour bars with the hope of them dropping a bit.
To be very honest from my experience, it hasn't been the case, so my plan isn't going quite as planned. The bid on old pour bars have increased during this time because I think the overall trend is up, not down. Today may start a trend downward but more time is obviously needed to confirm that. >>
This IS news because of the added uniqueness of the upcoming tax rate increase effective 2013, something that has not occurred in many years.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
It's all about what the people want...
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Nice looking Saint---well struck and very free of contact marks with the look of a much higher grade. Old double eagles are a great way to buy gold. >>
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Perhaps you didn't read on just one more sentence to see that I say?
Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone.
down for all of December as well. And based on the events coming up over the next 2-3 weeks, that could very well happen (fomc, back to back treasury auctions,
3rd Friday of the month is equity expiration + Mayan EOTWAWKI, futures expiration). Unusual to see a back to back to back weekly setup like this. I'm sure the big banks
will take advantage of it.
<< <i>I wish I had more time to debate this and show that a sell off of metals in December is nothing new. I apologize, but life calls. >>
A sell off in December is nothing new. What is somewhat unusual is a sell off/consolidation lasting from October into December (ie > 2 months).
I had to go back to 2001 to find something that was fairly similar.
POM could be correct in that uncertainty over the fake fiscal cliff debate is causing gold to go down, but then I'd also expect the stock market to be trembling as well. Something else seems to be operating.
Given the fact that Obama wants authority to effectively take Congress out of the equation as it concerns the debt ceiling, and given the fact that $85 billion of "unsterilized" debt, i.e. monetized debt, is being pumped into the system now - my opinion would be that gold isn't reacting to anything fundamental.
That doesn't obviate the fact that it's down, but it doesn't give me reason to think that anything has really changed in terms of policy or market dynamics either.
I knew it would happen.
Stocks are staying up/safe as retirement funds aren't moving around so much maybe...and the borg trading algorithms are keeping the paltry humans in line for a while longer?
<< <i>This IS news because of the added uniqueness of the upcoming tax rate increase effective 2013, something that has not occurred in many years
Perhaps you didn't read on just one more sentence to see that I say?
Throw in uncertainty of the cliff = sell mode. Uncertainty doesn't always lead to metals purchasing contrary to popular belief. Today is merely a classic example of that. Metals coming down this time of year should be of no surprise to anyone. >>
Your "uncertainty of the cliff" has nothing to do with expiring tax cuts. Expiring tax cuts are why many investors are taking profits at a lower tax rate. If anything "cliff uncertainty" should be fueling metal demand and higher prices. "Fiscal Cliff" is just a new name for what has been fueling the metal fire for years.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt