Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

Sportscard investment

2»

Comments

  • celloscellos Posts: 128 ✭✭
    I have seen a few posts about future generations not being into it so I wanted to present an alternative if you wanted to diversify your collectables. I would purchase the original 12 Star Wars figures in their original packaging. With the recent news of Disney buying Lucasfilm you can pretty much be assured that many future generations of kids will have Star Wars pushed upon them by Disney. When those kids grow up to be collectors in 30 years or so I believe the 1978 unopened originals will be worth more than they are today. The first film of the next trilogy is in 2015 and I think just the hype from that will push prices up.



  • << <i>It's strange to see someone telling us how badly the hobby is doing, and then suggest investing in modern product (quick flips) instead of high grade vintage (the best possible investment in this hobby). >>



    You certainly drew a lot of wrong conclusions on what I wrote. Are you the same guy who thought I was Dmitri Young? lol.

    Sir, where did I say modern? Quick flips could be anything you find below current market value via good hunting, or could be catching the beginning of a quick trend(this takes a great eye and some insight to do that). Neither of those are easy to do however. Like I said, I wouldn't recommend trying to make money at it unless you want to work for it and become a dealer(or a good hunter finding below market value items).


    The only specific cards I mentioned to buy were pre Goudey Ruth's.


    Who said the hobby was doing so bad now? I said were were still in the high point of it(but on the tail end of it).





  • RookieWaxRookieWax Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I said were were still in the high point of it(but on the tail end of it). >>



    I totally disagree that we are in the tail end of "it". Everything I have bought in the past 5 years (unopened and single cards) is selling for much higher than what I paid. Like I have said, with former collectors from the peak of the hobby returning, we are in an upswing and one that should continue to get better for many more years.
  • SidePocketSidePocket Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭
    Appreciation should be tied to scarcity. I'd stay away from anything newer than 1970.

    I disagree that the stars of the 40's/50's/60's will depreciate as collectors age and no longer will have seen them play. Who here saw Ruth or Cobb or even Mantle play? Those HOFer's are part of the history of the game and will always be highly desirable.

    "Molon Labe"

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buy the best '52 Topps Mantle you can get.

    THIS is the safest way to invest in sportscards and also the simplest. This card is a hobby icon and it continues to rise in value even though Mickey's skeletons have come out of the closet.

    There may be better ways to invest your money, but the OP's question was not about that.

    Joe
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not big on "what if" but I will share something I wondered about back in 1992.

    I read in Beckett where someone purchased a PSA 10 52T Mickey Mantle for $125,000.

    I thought wow! Isn't that a lot of money? Isn't that a bad idea? If I remember the guy was in the music/entertainment business.

    Well - we know what it's worth now? So, I'm sure most of us would find that a very good ROI?
    Mike


  • << <i>

    << <i>I said were were still in the high point of it(but on the tail end of it). >>



    I totally disagree that we are in the tail end of "it". Everything I have bought in the past 5 years (unopened and single cards) is selling for much higher than what I paid. Like I have said, with former collectors from the peak of the hobby returning, we are in an upswing and one that should continue to get better for many more years. >>



    The tail end doesn't mean a year from now. There are still years left. Nobody can pinpoint how many.


    People can't find worthwhile jobs, jobs are going overseas, our debt is at an unprecedented all time high and getting worse, other countries are 'cutting into' our revenue more than ever, baseball is not the focal point it once was, kids haven't been collecting baseball cards for the last dozen years or so already...but baseball cards will continue to rise in price(and even faster than inflation)? Doesn't add up. Sorry.


    All the points you guys are making about how it was in 1990 didn't have ALL those factors riding hard like they are now.

    RookieWax, short term gains in this field happen all the time. With all the factors above, long term gains are fighting an uphill battle!

  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    intersting the OP has yet to chime in since his original post. where you at Tomi?

    have a plan. it can be done.

    a long term plan with good intentions must be supported by a persistent ability to succeed in the shorter term and combine with smart speculation tactics and maybe a little bit o' luck.

    several different card proposals have been suggested, and it would be tough to argue with most of them, so obviously there are some experienced people around here who have thrived on their ability to be patient, intuitive and timely.

    one thing i think most of us can agree on is that there ARE better ways to consider a long term investment plan with a substantial amount of money. unless you're really, REALLY good at this, it would be wise to consider them or at least consider a wider diversity of investing for the period of time suggested.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I said were were still in the high point of it(but on the tail end of it). >>



    I totally disagree that we are in the tail end of "it". Everything I have bought in the past 5 years (unopened and single cards) is selling for much higher than what I paid. Like I have said, with former collectors from the peak of the hobby returning, we are in an upswing and one that should continue to get better for many more years. >>



    The tail end doesn't mean a year from now. There are still years left. Nobody can pinpoint how many.


    People can't find worthwhile jobs, jobs are going overseas, our debt is at an unprecedented all time high and getting worse, other countries are 'cutting into' our revenue more than ever, baseball is not the focal point it once was, kids haven't been collecting baseball cards for the last dozen years or so already...but baseball cards will continue to rise in price(and even faster than inflation)? Doesn't add up. Sorry.


    All the points you guys are making about how it was in 1990 didn't have ALL those factors riding hard like they are now.

    RookieWax, short term gains in this field happen all the time. With all the factors above, long term gains are fighting an uphill battle! >>



    Doom and gloom!

    You are certainly allowed your opinion, but holy crap are you being overly dire. This hobby isn't going ANYWHERE and it's not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. Plus it's laughable that you have it pinpointed down to a few years "when" exactly the hobby will crash. lol Give me a break man. You are talking out of your ass. You don't have a crystal ball and if you do, it's a sham. People like you have been saying the same stuff for 30+ years and the hobby is stronger than ever. Sure, less kids. But there are also MORE grownups involved... and grownups have all the money.
  • I dont know what I would do with $50,000 provided I was to only invest in cards. I would probably get some cases of some modern stuff. Maybe Bowman or some of the Heritage line. But I would definitely look into getting sealed boxes from the vintage era. Or just get the highest grade 52 Mantle I could have for that much. Thats about it.
  • esquiresportsesquiresports Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm not big on "what if" but I will share something I wondered about back in 1992.

    I read in Beckett where someone purchased a PSA 10 52T Mickey Mantle for $125,000.

    I thought wow! Isn't that a lot of money? Isn't that a bad idea? If I remember the guy was in the music/entertainment business.

    Well - we know what it's worth now? So, I'm sure most of us would find that a very good ROI? >>



    True story about one of the 1952T Mantle PSA 10s - I was in school at the time in D.C. This was around 1998. A classmate and I had built up a pretty significant sports card business while in school, dealing mostly in unopened material. One day on eBay, the PSA 10 Mantle pop up. Wow - that was a very unusual place for a high-end card at the time. We thought there was a great opportunity to make a quick flip of it at the right price. But we had also located a seller of about 200 cases of 1989 and 1990 baseball down in N.C. So we put in our best bid for the Mantle card (all of our available cash, actually) - $125,000 before committing on the unopened deal. We were almost immediately outbid. And then several more bidders leapfrogged us. In all, there were seven bidders ahead of us and the bid was up over $140,000. So we commit to the NC deal and make the long drive down to pick up all of these unopened cases (literally a couple million cards that would be stored in my friend's huge office room and in my apartment - stacked floor to ceiling). A day or so after we get back, we see an email from eBay saying "congratulations on winning the 1952 Topps Mantle"! What? How is this possible? My heart sunk and I felt sick. We go online and see that the seven bidders on eBay ahead of us all retracted their bids at the last minute, and our bid was "revived" to be the winning bid. But we didn't have $125,000 any longer. We picked up the telephone and got on the line with eBay. Back then eBay had only one person in its legal department, and even he was new. We explained the situation and noted all the legal arguments against bid revival (I'll spare you the details). Legal arguments aside, if eBay attempted to enforce a policy of bid-revival, it could significantly curtail bidding activity, because you'd have to wait for an auction end before being comfortable you weren't going to back into a win. That is, if I bid on a 1971 Topps set and am outbid, but there are six days left in the auction, I could be prevented from bidding on any other 1971 Topps set for six days because I could actually end up the winner. The eBay representative agreed with the rationale and didn't want the potential negative exposure regarding their policies. He contacted the seller and cleared everything up. There was no negative feedback left, but we really did feel rather humiliated. We sold off all the cases before values started to crash, clearing a relatively small profit. But it took several months, a lot of effort, tested the patience of our SOs, and did not return nearly what the Mantle would have.

    So, $50,000 to invest for 20 years? 1971 Topps wax box from BBCE (I'd say cello but have never seen one) and 1948 Leaf Rocky Graziano.
    Always buying 1971 OPC Baseball packs.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I said were were still in the high point of it(but on the tail end of it). >>



    I totally disagree that we are in the tail end of "it". Everything I have bought in the past 5 years (unopened and single cards) is selling for much higher than what I paid. Like I have said, with former collectors from the peak of the hobby returning, we are in an upswing and one that should continue to get better for many more years. >>



    The tail end doesn't mean a year from now. There are still years left. Nobody can pinpoint how many.


    People can't find worthwhile jobs, jobs are going overseas, our debt is at an unprecedented all time high and getting worse, other countries are 'cutting into' our revenue more than ever, baseball is not the focal point it once was, kids haven't been collecting baseball cards for the last dozen years or so already...but baseball cards will continue to rise in price(and even faster than inflation)? Doesn't add up. Sorry.


    All the points you guys are making about how it was in 1990 didn't have ALL those factors riding hard like they are now.

    RookieWax, short term gains in this field happen all the time. With all the factors above, long term gains are fighting an uphill battle! >>



    Doom and gloom!

    You are certainly allowed your opinion, but holy crap are you being overly dire. This hobby isn't going ANYWHERE and it's not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be. Plus it's laughable that you have it pinpointed down to a few years "when" exactly the hobby will crash. lol Give me a break man. You are talking out of your ass. You don't have a crystal ball and if you do, it's a sham. People like you have been saying the same stuff for 30+ years and the hobby is stronger than ever. Sure, less kids. But there are also MORE grownups involved... and grownups have all the money. >>



    Hey, then have at it and buy away. My posts are intended for people who can see things objectively and have good comprehension.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Here's a good thread on the topic of cards vs inflation from a few years ago (well, it started out good, but it eventually turned to nonsense):

    link
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • BBCE has a 71 wax box?
  • esquiresportsesquiresports Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭
    BBCE does not have a 1971 wax box. I was just saying I would want it to be a BBCE authenticated box for obvious reasons.
    Always buying 1971 OPC Baseball packs.
  • TomiTomi Posts: 643 ✭✭✭


    << <i>intersting the OP has yet to chime in since his original post. where you at Tomi?

    have a plan. it can be done.

    a long term plan with good intentions must be supported by a persistent ability to succeed in the shorter term and combine with smart speculation tactics and maybe a little bit o' luck.

    several different card proposals have been suggested, and it would be tough to argue with most of them, so obviously there are some experienced people around here who have thrived on their ability to be patient, intuitive and timely.

    one thing i think most of us can agree on is that there ARE better ways to consider a long term investment plan with a substantial amount of money. unless you're really, REALLY good at this, it would be wise to consider them or at least consider a wider diversity of investing for the period of time suggested. >>




    I have been collecting for 25 years so I don't really need help in what to collect for profit since I have done very well with the vintage and pre-war cards that I have and continue to add. I just wanted to see what others on this forum would recommend. High grade vintage and pre-war rookies and high end sets are the way to go and I would not recommend any other way if it's for pure profit. The BIG collectors all collect high end cards no matter which sport you are talking about. The collectors looking for mint and gem mint cards will be the ones with the deep pockets who will not hesitate to overpay for something that is needed. It was unheard of in the 90's to see a card sell for six figures, now it's happening consistently and records are being broken all the time.
    They call it modern junk for a reason-enough said.
    As long as we can keep PSA in business, then we will all be fine.
    Good luck to all with their collecting goals, I just wanted to see the different strategies people here would take if they were in the position.
    Thanks


  • << <i>Here's a good thread on the topic of cards vs inflation from a few years ago (well, it started out good, but it eventually turned to nonsense):

    link >>



    Digicat, you made some good points in that thread.

    Comparing cards from now to 20 years ago is difficult because of the advent of grading. Of course, none of that really matters, because 1990-2012 had different circumstances than 2012-2032 will.

    If many cards in the 1990-2012 era were losers when inflation is added, then imagine how worse it will be when the other prevailing factors are added that are, and will be, occurring during the next 20 years or so.


    I highly recommend to people to keep your collection going if it interests you and you gain enjoyment from it, to work hard to provide for your family, to be a good member of society, and enjoy your life the way you see fit. I would not recommend to anyone to buy at current market prices and expect to turn an inflation accounted for profit 20 years from now...and if that makes you mad when I say that, then just ignore it and do what you want. It is a win win situation.
  • I would buy $50,000 worth of Football cards. Why? Because I loved them as a kid and love them even more now for
    taking me back to when I was a kid everytime I look at them.

    Other than that.......... Objectivity is absolutely right. I see the major decline coming more likely in the next 30 - 40 years rather than 20 years.

    But thats ok, I'll be gone and all the joy and happiness I had will my Football card collection and the money I spent on it over the years will still be
    the best money I ever spent! I collect cards.


  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭

    9 years since his thread. What was the best advice / prediction? Looking back, what has performed the best?

    He who knows he has enough is rich.

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Everything has done well, but the advice to buy Mantles, Jordan and unopened was bang on.

    FWIW, 50K in TSLA in 2012 would be worth 6MM today. AAPL, over 600K. The house I'm in today could have been bought with 50K down in 2012 (we didn't buy in 2012 unfortunately!) and could be sold for an 800K tax free profit. SP500 has returned 50% 1YR FFS.

    Cards have performed incredibly well but really everything has in this massive asset bubble.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One poster suggested, as a joke, 1989 Upper Deck unopened. What would that have cost in November, 2012?

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IM pretty sure I meant 1989 Upper Deck commons at the time. And I think they would still be a hard sell at 50k.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    IM pretty sure I meant 1989 Upper Deck commons at the time. And I think they would still be a hard sell at 50k.

    Ah, well those should be bought and sold by the pound.

  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gonna take this opportunity to pat myself on the back for my post in this thread way back in the day. Aged pretty well ;)

  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DM23HOF said:
    Gonna take this opportunity to pat myself on the back for my post in this thread way back in the day. Aged pretty well ;)

    Figure I would bring what MattC said back in 2012. I have always enjoyed reading your posts. You have same great insight in your posts. You certainly nailed it back 2012.
    l> @MattyC said:

    Only time and several bets of 50K could tell for sure, so this is all our best guesswork. My thinking would be as follows...

    As a pure investment to sell in 15-20 years, I would buy Mantle and Jordan. They are the surest bets. They have the broadest, deepest markets. The most collectors. 52T Mantle. 86F Jordan. 84 Star 101 Jordan in highest grade available. These are cards legions of collectors lust after and are proven to pay top dollar for.

    The population of these cards in higher grade simply will not satisfy demand in 15-20 years. Bottom line. I know many, many people in their 30's now who want Mantles, and they will be in prime buying age in 15-20 years as well. A Ruth RC or Wagner is already out of range.

    Younger players are out: too speculative. You could take a serious bath.

    Unopened... This is a niche market: focusing on its rarity too much can make one blind to other factors. There are far fewer buyers for unopened than the Mantles and Jordans, and there will always be two layers of uncertainty there-- (A) what is inside and (B) is it authentic.

    Yes, Steve Hart is amazing, but the OP is talking about finding a buyer in 15-20 years who will spend MORE THAN $50,000 on the hypothetical items in question. If you have an unopened box of 1965 Topps authenticated from Steve Hart or the like, it is a great piece, and rare to be sure, but in 15-20 years you have to locate the relatively few deep-pocketed buyers and hope they will battle it out to maximize your gain. That's a risk, compared to the amount of people who will bid enthusiastically on a PSA 10 Jordan Fleer RC or one of the 18 or so existing BGS 9 Star RCs, or a nicely centered Mantle 52T.

    That said, I think boxes of 1986 Fleer Basketball represent a good upside. As Jordan gets on in years and the RC inches up, as younger people mature as collectors and no doubt find their way to that set, as people consistently yield to the temptation to bust those packs (see this past National), I could see broad demand in that box.

    There are so many cards we love and appreciate the toughness of, Prewar gems like T206, Cracker Jack... Then there are whole graded sets with extremely low-pop commons, but many of these are for a relatively smaller pool of very advanced collectors. And if there is a "must sell in 15-20 year" parameter to this hypothetical, I think breadth and depth of market has to be a prime factor.

  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here are the prices back in late 2012 compared to 2021 recent sales for his 1986 Fleer PSA 10 Jordans. Some major returns.

    12/17/12 $9,999.00 Image BIN eBay begsu1013 ps - ! -
    12/11/12 $8,411.18 Image 45 eBay sultan_of_swat_2 g
    e - ! -
    12/7/12 $8,280.00 Image 14 Greg Bussineau - ! -
    12/2/12 $8,500.00 Image 18 eBay sultan_of_swat_2 lu - ! -
    11/3/12 $9,500.00 Image Best Offer eBay sultan_of_swat_2 2
    y - ! -
    10/18/12 $10,000.00 Image Best Offer eBay mnmiracle2004 eu - ! -
    10/10/12 $8,988.00 Image 47 eBay probstein123 o
    e - ! -
    9/28/12 $7,977.77 Image 28 eBay sultan_of_swat_2 _***4 - ! -
    9/23/12 $7,800.01 Image 6 eBay terwin1957 1***1 - ! -
    9/18/12 $9,500.00 Image BIN eBay encapsulated_icons h***o - ! -

    4/29/21 $414,544.00 Auction
    Image 245 eBay pwcc_auctions _***d - ! -
    4/24/21 $430,500.00 Auction
    Image 17 Goldin - ! -
    4/18/21 $375,100.00 Auction
    Image 90 eBay pwcc_auctions 8***- - ! -
    4/15/21 $408,000.00 Auction
    Image 14 Heritage - ! -
    4/7/21 $522,750.00 Auction
    Image 16 Goldin - ! -
    4/7/21 $450,000.00 Auction
    Image 12 Goldin - ! -
    4/7/21 $450,000.00 Auction
    Image 14 Goldin - ! -

  • thedutymon11thedutymon11 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭✭

    Evening,

    10-15 years ago I would have laughed my A$$ off if somebody had mentioned some of the following Non Sports that were so worthless I've thrown Thousands of packs and Boxes in the trash! Such as:

    Rocky II
    Tron
    Yugigo or whatever it is
    Mario Game
    99% of Star Wars cards, sheesh I was throwing away packs 15-20 years ago!
    Magic the Gathering
    1990-91 Fleer Basketball Wax & Rack Boxes....Nuff Said!
    GPK all series except 1 & 2
    Partridge Family
    Jaws 2 Jaws 3
    Threes Company
    Charlies Angels
    And dozens of other TV and relates Series, A Lot have gone Through the Roof!

    And in the meantime with a Few exceptions, most of the Gold Standards from the 50's and 60's Non Sports have barely appreciated in the last 12-15 years, such as:

    Mars Attacks,
    Civil War News
    Topps Battle
    Outer Limits
    Certain Star War, most Cards later series
    GPK all series, even #1 & #2

    And others have become almost worthless, the 1973 Topps Wacky Packages I used to get hundreds of dollars for Checklists that had one or two dots or some such, never recognized by PSA (I don't think), now not even listed in the last year at least!

    And many many more. Most of those above I am buying for the same price ! was 10-12 years ago....and a Lot of times Much Much Cheaper!

    So figuring out what will Blow up 20 years from now....pshwaw!

    So's here's my pick for 20 years from now....Unopened Cases of 1980 "Here's Bo"........I have 7 and am actively seeking more, offering $20 per case w/free shipping to me.......find a Better Buy Offer, take it! And I am going to corner the Market!

    JFK, As everybody said, Cobb, Mantle, ect.....

    YeeHaw!

    Neil

Sign In or Register to comment.