2012-13 World Champ SF Giants spring training discussion: Giants lock up Buster with 9 year deal

digicat

The Giants won the World Series, again. Twice in 3 years. Dynasty? Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Buster Posey was asked "Now do you know what it feels like to be Derek Jeter?" Buster cooly responded with "I have no idea what Jeter feels like."


So, into the winter, with warm thoughts of a Sergio Romo fastball and a frozen Triple Crown winner and a parade to carry us on.

So, first up, lets look at the roster and see who's coming back, who's facing arb, and who's a FA...

Under contract

Madison Bumgarner (through 2017 w/ 2018 & 2019 options)
Lincecum (through 2013)
Cain (through 2017 w/ 2018 option)
Zito (through 2013 w/2014 option)
Vogelsong (through 2013 w/2014 option)
Panda (through 2014)
Lopez (through 2013)
Jeremy Affeldt (through 2015)
Angel Pagan (through 2016)
Marco Scutaro (through 2015)
Andres Torres (through 2013)
Pre-Arb team control
Eric Surkamp (LHP)
Brandon Belt (1b)
Yusmeiro Petit (RHP)
Brandon Crawford (SS)
George Kontos (RHP)
Jean Machi (RHP)
Dan Otero (RHP)
Dan Runzler (LHP) (out of options)
Hector Sanchez (C)
Francisco Peguero (OF)
Brett Pill (1b)
Gillaspie (3b) (out of options)
Minor Leagues: Adrianza (IF), Kieschnick (OF)

Contracts tendered:
Buster Posey (C)
Hunter Pence (RF)
Santiago Casilla (RHP)
Jose Mijares (LHP)
Sergio Romo (RHP)
Joaquin Arias (IF)
Gregor Blanco (OF)

Minor league deals:
Shane Loux (RHP)

Free Agent
Brian Wilson (RHP) (non-tendered)
Freddy Sanchez (2b)
Guillermo Mota (RHP)
Brad Penny (RHP)
Ryan Theriot (IF)

New SF Giants Alumni:
Aubrey Huff, option declined.
Eli Whiteside, signed with Yankes, then Blue Jays, now Rangers.
Melky Cabrera, signed with Blue Jays.
Manny Burriss, signed with Reds.
Xavier Nady, signed with Royals.
Clay Hensley, signed with Reds.

SanctionII

Digicat:

Do you think that with another good year or two under his belt in 2013 and/or 2014 (this presumes alot) the Giants may be willing to make an effort to keep Barry Zito on the team after the final year of his contract (is it 2013 or 2014 that his contract expires?)?

57loaded

Digicat will give a better response but next year is Zito's last under contract.

Over the 7 years he has been with the team he has been a dud in $$$/win. End of this year things turned dramatically in his favor. I dunno if there is an option at the end of his contract or not. My guess it's bye bye Barry regardless.

digicat

<< <i>Do you think that with another good year or two under his belt in 2013 and/or 2014 (this presumes alot) the Giants may be willing to make an effort to keep Barry Zito on the team after the final year of his contract (is it 2013 or 2014 that his contract expires?)? >>



2013 is year 7 in the 7 year contract that Zito signed. There's an option for a $18 mil 8th year, or a $7 mil buyout.

If Zito continues to be a decent #5 pitcher in 2013, I could see the Giants taking the buy-out and offering Zito <$11 mil.


Looking ahead to 2014, we've got:
Cain under contract (through 2017 (with a 2018 team option))
Bumgarner under contract (through 2017 (with $12 mil team options for 2018 and 2019))
Vogelsong under contract (assuming they pick up his 2014 option)


Zito's 2014 option
Lincecum's a free agent

3/5ths of our rotation is locked up for the next 2 seasons. Zito and Lincecum are the question marks.

Of course, the futures of those two will depend on how Surkamp, Clayton Blackburn, and Kyle Crick develop. Blackburn and Crick are stud prospects. Surkamp used to be, but missed all of 2012 due to injuries.


Clayton Blackburn (19 yrs, Class A Augusta): 8-4, 2.54 era, 1.020 whip, 131.1 ip, 143 so, 18 bb (7.94 so/bb!)
Kyle Crick (19 yrs, Class A Augusta): 7-6, 2.51 era, 1.275 whip, 111.1 ip, 128 so, 67 bb (1.91 so/bb)

Piggs

What do you suggest they do with Cabrera?

digicat

<< <i>What do you suggest they do with Cabrera? >>



Depends on how much of a risk they think he is to deal with. I could see the Giants offering him a 1 year, <$4 deal to see what he can do off the juice.

However, if they've decided that he's not to be trusted, then he won't be back.

Honestly, in this situation, I could see the Giants management asking some of the players to provide input on clubhouse fit. Do the players want this guy back?

digicat

Burriss has elected for free agency rather than accept a demotion to Fresno, so he's pretty much gone, unless no one wants him and the Giants hand him a minor league deal.


Remember back in the bad old days when we all wanted Boch to "play the kids!"

If he did, we COULD have seen a team like this:

C = Buster Posey
1b = Travis Ishikawa
2b = Eugenio Velez
SS = Manny Burriss
3b = Kevin Frandsen
LF = Fred Lewis
CF = Rajai Davis
RF = Dan Ortmeier

digicat

Giants took care of one of their 3 main Free Agents this winter, signing Jeremy Affeldt to a 3 year, $18m deal.

Affeldt's a very good lefty reliever, is a great clubhouse guy, and does a lot of good off-the-field with his charity work.

Given the price that Brandon League milked the Dodgers for, I'd venture to say that Affeldt gave the Giants a discount.

I just hope he doesn't find more bizarre ways to hurt himself.

CNote

Being an M's fan, I couldn't believe the deal League's agent suckered LAD into giving him. Unreal...

digicat

<< <i>Being an M's fan, I couldn't believe the deal League's agent suckered LAD into giving him. Unreal... >>



Magic Johnson's money appears to have driven poor Ned Colletti a bit insane.

WTCG

Of the three free agents it appears one is locked up. For Affeldt I heard 3 years/ $18 million but NBC Bay Area was reporting 3 years/ $22 million. Either way he'll have enough money to buy fresh burger patties and not have to deal with frozen Costco ones if he doesn't want to. He's a likeable guy and a fan favorite but that's a lot of money for a middle reliever. You can thank the Brandon League deal for setting a bad precedent. I can only imagine how much a good closer would go for now.

In the outfield it looks like Hunter Pence is coming back for sure next year. I'm suspecting Sabean will try to sign him up for several years if he could.

What do you see happening with Angel Pagan? Last season was a career season for him and it came at just the right time. He's a good leadoff type contact hitter, a base stealing threat and is pretty good defensively and also seems to be well liked by his teammates. Personally I like him a lot and would love to see him back next year. However, more than a few writers are calling him the Puerto Rican Aaron Rowand and aren't keen about his upside potential. Apparently he wants a 4 or 5 year deal and it looks like some team somewhere will give him that. Sign him for 4 to 5 years or let him go?

In left field there's the Melky option but word is there are 3 or 4 teams interested so he might not come at bargain price or "give it a shot" price. Would the Giants keep the platoon thing going or possibly bring in someone like BJ Upton, Michael Bourne (I'm virtually certain he won't happen) or even Shane Victorino, then do a little shuffling around?

As for the arbitration eligibles, I think most will be tendered. Apparently the team isn't sure about bringing back Brian Wilson but considering how he's arguably the best known Giant to those outside of the Bay Area and he sells lots of merchandise I say he should be brought back for next year. See how he does next season and then go from there. Some of those arbitration eligible guys aren't going to be cheap, though.

I suspect the Giants will try to lock up Buster for life or at least for many years. Speaking of a guy who'll get expensive real fast.

Other than Scutaro and the aforementioned Pagan, I don't think any of the free agents will be back nor do we really want to see them back.

digicat

<< <i>but NBC Bay Area was reporting 3 years/ $22 million. >>



It appears that they've corrected their numbers to the 3y/$18m that everyone else had.


I could see the Giants extending offers to Hensley and Theriot. Nothing expensive though.

Loux, Mota, Penny, Nady, and Burriss will not be back. Don't need them. Freddy Sanchez.. minor league deal maybe?

Melky is a toss up. No way they should give him a multi year. That'd be stupid, especially if turns into NY Melky when the juice wears off.

I like Pagan too. Comparing him to Rowand might be a bit of a stretch though. Pagan actually posted a career year in SF, while Rowand did in Philly then turned to crap in SF. Ultimately, anything could happen. It's hard to predict which guys will go nuts in their FA year then turn to garbage.

Scutaro needs to be signed to a 2-3 year deal, or we'll return to the days of 2nd base being a Fresno Grizzlies platoon.

digicat

Just saw what the Blu-Ray collectors edition World Series set is going to include...

all 4 WS games
NLDS game 5 (clincher, Posey's slam), NLCS game 5 (the Zito game), Matt Cain's perfect game.

The 1 disk "movie" includes NLCS game 7.

I'd have been nice to see NLDS Game 4 (bullpen Freak) in there too.

digicat

Melky just signed a 2 year, $16 mil deal with the Blue Jays. So, I guess that answers that question.

Dboneesq

WOW! Melky got $16,000,000.00 for 2 years from Toronto. Looks like Toronto (this signing together with the Miami trade) is going for it all this coming year.

57loaded

<< <i>Just saw what the Blu-Ray collectors edition World Series set is going to include...

all 4 WS games
NLDS game 5 (clincher, Posey's slam), NLCS game 5 (the Zito game), Matt Cain's perfect game.

The 1 disk "movie" includes NLCS game 7.

I'd have been nice to see NLDS Game 4 (bullpen Freak) in there too. >>



That makes me very happy!

digicat

Only nerds like me get excited for stuff like this, but...

Rule 5 draft protection deadline was today, and the Giants added Nick Noonan, Edwin Escobar, Jake Dunning, Chris Heston and Juan Perez. I'll add some more info later (unless someone else wants to beat me to it.

WTCG

Looks like it's official that Melky is going to Toronto, which erases the option of him returning to left field for the Giants. Considering the scarcity of available quality outfielders, it becomes more imperative that the Giants re-sign Angel Pagan or have to be prepared to overpay for a free agent like one of the Uptons, Victorino or Bourne, who may not be better than Pagan but will be quite expensive. If not then it leaves two of the three outfield positions in the band-aid platoon mode. Last I've heard is Gary Brown is not ready to make his major league debut yet.

Except for the Affeldt re-signing, so far it's been fairly quiet.

digicat

The newest members of the SF Giants 40-man roster:


Chris Heston - RHP, 24 yrs old. 12th round pick in 2009 draft.
Posted good numbers in San Jose (2011) and Richmond (2012). Some are projecting him as a relief pitcher in the majors, though he's been used almost exclusively as a starter in the minors.


Jake Dunning - RHP, 24 years old. 33rd round pick in 2009 draft.
Curious guy to specifically protect. Didn't pitch too well in San Jose or Richmond as a relief pitcher. Overall, has a 4.16 era and 1.360 whip in 4 years of minor league ball.


Edwin Escobar - LHP, 20 years old. Acquired via trade with Rangers in 2010.
He pitched well as a starter in A level Augusta. It's his only success, as his other 3 seasons in the minors were fairly poor. My guess is that the Giants want to see if he can get any better. He's only 20 years old, so they've got some time.


Juan Perez - RHB, OF, 26 years old. 13th round pick in 2008 draft.
He posted a .302/.341/.441 slash in the typically pitcher friendly Eastern League. Can hit with some power, can steal bases. Nothing outstanding, and at 26 years old, he's not a prospect. Possible trade bait or maybe the Giants think he could patrol AT&T Park's outfield soon.


Nick Noonan, bats left, throws right, 2b/SS, 23 years old. 1st round (supplemental) pick in 2007 draft.
After struggling for a few years, he's figured out how to hit a little in Fresno, posting a nice .296/.347/.416 slash in 2012. His value is probably as a utility infielder, but who knows, maybe he can provide some Joaquin Arias type value. Realistically though, he might be the new Manny Burriss.

digicat

Not much going on besides re-stocking the minor leagues with roster-fillers and reclamation projects.

Giants are still working with Pagan and Scutaro, but word is that those two are testing the FA waters.

However, it does appear that Brian Wilson and the Giants are not close on contract talks. Wilson's not supposed to be ready to go until close to the 2013 All-Star break, and who knows what impact a 2nd Tommy John surgery will have on him. Wilson feels that he'll be 100% on Opening Day, and also that the Giants owe him for what he's done for the franchise and for the Giants brand in general.

Expect to see Wilson's name on the non-tender list. They don't want to pay him >$6.8mil, which is what they'd have to offer him in arb. Maybe they'll non-tender him then re-sign him for less? I don't know how badly Wilson wants to stay in SF.

57loaded

Always liked Scutaro.

Hope he is signed.

.....Wilson, (I just had a flaskback to Trevor) good when healthy, bad when tweaked.
Unless BWilson does something with his mechanics...why keep him? As far as the Giants "owing" him I always thought "torture" was attributed to him?

digicat

Wilson says that if the Giants don't sign him, he wants to be a Dodger.

WTCG

<< <i>Wilson says that if the Giants don't sign him, he wants to be a Dodger. >>



He says lots of things. I remember one time he said his favorite team is the Padres.

It only takes one desperate team with money. There was a rumor the Yankees were interested in him to back up Rivera should he be out far past opening day. His hometown team the Red Sox could probably use him also.

Wait, if he goes to the Yankees they'll make him shave...

He's owed 8.5 million (or more) next year, which is a lot for a guy coming back from his second Tommy John operation. Outside of the Bay Area he is the face of the Giants and arguably the best known member of the team (in my opinion that includes Posey and Lincecum), sells lots of merchandise and is loyal and well liked in the clubhouse so he there's the argument that he is worth bringing back for at least one more season.

My feeling is there's a better chance than not he'll be back next season.

digicat

The Giants could offer him 20% less in arb, but the Giants are a bit squemish to even offer that. Wilson will probably not be cleared to play until close to the AS break, so any team that gets him will be paying a full season's worth of money for half a season of Brian Wilson.

Yeah, he's the face of the franchise. I wonder how popular he would have been if he didn't grow out the beard...
(hey, look at who the catcher is!)


I'd like him back, but I wonder about the clubhouse dynamics since Wilson returning would in a way, demote Romo, Lopez, and Affeldt.

digicat

digicat

Nate Schierholtz and Andres Torres are both looking at being non-tendered.

Bringing one (or both) of them back to SF as a bench guy probably wouldn't be a horrible idea. Giants carried Justin Christian and Xavier Nady on their roster, and they're both lower quality than Nate or Andres.

digicat

It's official, the Giants tendered contracts to all of their arb eligible players, except Brian Wilson, who's now a free agent.

Thanks for being a good closer Brian, and for being weird and awesome. His place on the SF Giants Wall of Fame has already been guaranteed.

FEAR THE BEARD!

WTCG

I wouldn't mind seeing Nate back, but the fact that Torres is available makes me nervous. 2010 was a career year for him and it is highly unlikely he'll ever repeat his performance from that year ever again. Hopefully the team won't use Andres as an excuse to not bring Pagan back. The two are simply not the same caliber center fielder.

As for The Beard, we'll see what happens.

digicat

I think Torres could be useful off the bench, but I wouldn't want him starting. However, Blanco should be the "4th outfielder."

I don't think the Giants management is deluded enough to think "Hey, we got Torres back, don't need Pagan anymore!"

57loaded

<< <i> >>



I do like him, but he became almost larger than life (BB was larger than life) and in a way overexposed to media and fans. I'm an old fart and can take only so much.

For sure he will stand shoulder to shoulder on the Wall of Fame. It was cool seeing him lift the WS Flag on Opening day 2011.

yeah LA would love him....Brian W might insist on Pat "the machine" Burrell coming with him, though and Rome would have a weekly spot for him.

Giants did a good thing in non-tendering.

PS thanks for the Sandoval/Wilson photo and the earlier one posted showing Posey/Cabrera when game 4 ended.

digicat

Dave Groeschner has put Tim Lincecum on a specific diet and exercise conditioning project for him to work on during the off-season.

This might confirm the "conditioning" angle of the whole "What's wrong with Timmmy" debate of 2012.

He seems to have the opposite problem of Pablo: While Pablo packs on the pounds, Timmy has trouble keeping them on.

digicat

Giants locked up Angel Pagan for the next 4 years at $10 mil per. I really hope he doesn't turn into Aaron Rowand 2.0.

2002 Bowman Chrome - Gold Refractor #/50

digicat

I wonder if Pagan's 4 year deal reflects a lack of confidence in Gary Brown's development?

Could also be that with 2 other outfield spots, the Giants see flexibility in their future in regards to Brown. Gregor Blanco won't be a long-term solution, and the Giants still are wanting to see what they can get out of Pence. If Brown does well in spring training and/or the minors, expect to see him called up this year.

WTCG

This was the first I've heard about the Pagan deal until I saw the story on CSN Bay Area.

This was a win for Sabean and company. Not only did they maintain continuity, they got Pagan for what I feel is less than they were expecting to pay. Quality outfielders are scarce and if the Giants weren't going after Bourne or the other big names it was imperative that they got someone with a track record. BJ Upton's deal set a precident. He's younger than Pagan and hits for more power but his batting average sucks and he strikes out a lot. In other words he's an East Coast team type player. Pagan is a much better contact hitter and is no slouch on speed. With all things considered I don't think Upton at 75 million is much of an upgrade over Pagan at 40 million.

And Pagan's tenative contract isn't as backloaded as baseball contracts notoriously are. If the Giants feel the need to trade him down the road, other teams would have less of an issue with taking on that contract.

Apparently the Giants were looking at Shane Victorino as a plan B if Pagan left. Victorino would've cost just as much and his performance more unpredictable.

CSN Bay Area also mentioned that they don't feel Gary Brown is a sure bet for the majors as his development seems to have stalled. And if they feel like calling up Gary Brown they could try him in LF first, which is a much smaller risk than immediately sending him out to CF.

It was also reported that the Giants are interested in Hairston from the Mets to split LF platooning with Blanco. Apparently Hairston hits pretty well at AT&T Park.

digicat

<< <i>It was also reported that the Giants are interested in Hairston from the Mets to split LF platooning with Blanco. Apparently Hairston hits pretty well at AT&T Park. >>



Hairston's put the hurt on the Giants a few times at AT&T Park, most recently in a 2 homer performance where his first homer (off Romo) tied the game in the 9th, and his next homer (off Casilla) broke a tie in the 10th. Before that his numbers at AT&T were mostly forgettable.

Who knows. He put up a career high 20 homers last year for the Mets, and if he's on the Giants he's not hitting homers against us.

digicat

Giants got their man with Scutaro, so now we can focus on figuring out what to do with Left Field.

Scutaro will be 40 years old by the time his contract with the Giants is up. The Giants have no ready options in the minors for 2nd base, though they have hopes that 2011 1st round pick Joe Panick will be ready some day.

digicat

The 2013 opening day starting lineup will look like...


CF = Angel Pagan
2b = Marco Scutaro
3b = Pablo Sandoval
C = Buster Posey
RF = Hunter Pence
1b = Brandon Belt
LF = Gregor Blanco and ??? platoon
SS = Brandon Crawford

It's be nice to see the Giants land a big stick to play LF, but I doubt that'll happen.

JustinsShoebox

If you haven't seen it yet, go check out "A Player to Be Named Later". I saw it on Netflix about 3-4 years ago. Features Scutaro coming up through Triple-A. Pretty good movie.

Justin

digicat

<< <i>If you haven't seen it yet, go check out "A Player to Be Named Later". I saw it on Netflix about 3-4 years ago. Features Scutaro coming up through Triple-A. Pretty good movie. >>



I heard someone mentioning that movie recently. Just added it to my queue. Thanks.

digicat

Apparently Brian Wilson is now armed with a doctor's note saying that he'll be healed in time for Spring Training.

WTCG

So basically it's the same lineup as last year. Not much done in the realm of outside improvements but if that lineup won the World Series then who are we to complain? Let's hope nobody regresses.

Now with Scutaro signed the infield has been filled. Scutaro is a senior citizen as infielders go so let's hope his bat stays hot and he stays healthy and he doesn't turn into Aubrey Huff 2.0.

The only hole left is the LF position. It was reported the team is no longer interested in Ichiro as they feel he's basically an older and more expensive version of Gregor Blanco. The Dodgers are more interested in lefty bullpen help so they're out on Brian Wilson. The Red Sox and Yankees might be interested but I still think he'll likely be back with the team next year.

digicat

The 25 man roster will probably be something like:

Starting 5 (Cain, Bum, Voggy, Timmy, Zito)
Starting 8 (Posey, Belt, Scutaro, Craw, Panda, Blanco, Pagan, Pence)
Bench 5 (Sanchez, Arias, _____, ______, ______)
Bullpen 7 (Romo, Lopez, Affeldt, Casilla, Mijares, Kontos, ________)


3 bench spots and 1 bullpen spot.

The pen would be best filled with Brian Wilson, but if that's not to happen, I suppose they'll use Machi or Otero as the new garbage time mop up guy.

As for the bench, I figure they want a righty outfielder, a utility infielder, and maybe a righty bat. They're going to get an outfielder. Peguero can't hit major league pitching, Perez has never played above AA, and Kieschnick is a lefty.

Utility infielder, could be Noonan out of the minors, but I sort of expect them to re-sign Theriot.
Righty bat off the bench, probably Pill if they don't get anyone else.

digicat

Last off-season the Dodgers hoarded utility infielders. This year they're hoarding starting pitchers.

Kershaw, Greinke, Beckett, Billingsley, Capuano, Harang, Lilly, now Ryu. It'd be fun if they went with an 8 man rotation. LOL

WTCG

Seriously I think there are times the Dodgers ownership forgets that an active team roster is restricted to 25 players.

Even with Crawford and everybody else becoming healthy by the regular season I still believe the Dodgers are basically one giant expensive Titanic of a team. If the Giants don't win the division it'll be the Padres or Arizona.

digicat

The tone the Giants org has taken with Brian Wilson seems to be fairly condescending, as if Brian Wilson is a small child throwing a tantrum.

During the winter meetings, Boch said something to the effect of "We're letting Brian blow off some steam right now. Once I get back to town, I'll give him a call and get him back on board."

They seem quite sure that Wilson has no options, despite his agent saying "We're talking to 7 different teams, and the Giants aren't one of them."

digicat

Giants brought back Andres Torres on a 1 year deal. Switch hitter off the bench with speed. He was horrid in NY, but is a fan favorite in SF. That might help him.


Giants can still make a move on an additional outfielder though.


Rotation 5 (Cain, Bum, Voggy, Timmy, Zito)
Starting 8 (Posey, Belt, Scutaro, Craw, Panda, Blanco, Pagan, Pence)
Bench 5 (Sanchez (C), Arias (IF), Torres (OF), ***utility IF***, ***righty bat***)
Bullpen 7 (Romo, Lopez, Affeldt, Casilla, Mijares, Kontos, ***righty***)

digicat

Hmm, it's being reported that the Giants offered Ichiro a 2yr/$15m contract, and Ichiro decided to go take less to play for the Yankees again.

Giants management made some absurd comments earlier in the month that Ichiro was an expensive version of Gregor Blanco, and that they wouldn't pursue him.
Well, if they said stupid crap like that, it's no wonder Ichrio didn't want to come over.

digicat

Giants just locked up Santiago Casilla for the next 3 years. The deal is worth $15 mil, and includes a vesting option/buy-out for a 4th year.

I guess they just love his set-up capability or something, kinda like how they did with Affeldt a few years ago. Just keep him out of the 9th inning and we're all good.

digicat

Looks like the Giants are participating in the 2012 Hot Stove White Elephant Gift Exchange.

They just claimed Sandy Rosario, who's had a very busy off-season.

October 17: claimed off wavers from the Marlins by the Red Sox.
November 28: traded by Red Sox to the A's.
December 10: claimed off wavers from the A's by the Red Sox.
December 12: claimed off wavers from the Red Sox by the Cubs.
December 21: claimed off wavers from the Cubs the Giants.

digicat

Cody Ross signed a 3 year deal with the D-Backs. I have a suspicion that we're going to forget his 2010 SFG heroics before that contract is up.

WTCG

Were the Giants ever interested in bringing back Cody Ross to fill in at LF? Statistically he had a much better season in Boston than 2011 but his deal with Arizona makes the Angel Pagan re-signing look like a bargain that much more.

I haven't heard any new news about Brian Wilson and the longer he stays unsigned the more I'm believing the Giants point of view. He figured the Dodgers would sign him just to spite the Giants but apparently they feel like throwing money at everybody else except him. Where else would he be wanted? Detroit perhaps?