I think that a difference in this downturn and suppressed prices cycle, compared to past ones, is that there is a 'Set Registry' component now (here and ATS) that was not present in the other cycles. I also feel that this is definitely more applicable to moderns than the older series. But price jumps for single point increments of thousands of percentage points were non-existent before the registry, or heck, now some of those huge jumps are at the same grade if they have the +. I could easily understand how someone paying the premium to chase points could be turned off when they find their MS67 is no longer top-pop, the MS68 has the premium now, and their coin is now the $300 one and no longer the one for which they paid ~$7,000. Still the same coin, but now barely marketable.
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
<< <i>I think that a difference in this downturn and suppressed prices cycle, compared to past ones, is that there is a 'Set Registry' component now (here and ATS) that was not present in the other cycles. I also feel that this is definitely more applicable to moderns than the older series. But price jumps for single point increments of thousands of percentage points were non-existent before the registry, or heck, now some of those huge jumps are at the same grade if they have the +. I could easily understand how someone paying the premium to chase points could be turned off when they find their MS67 is no longer top-pop, the MS68 has the premium now, and their coin is now the $300 one and no longer the one for which they paid ~$7,000. Still the same coin, but now barely marketable.
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
My 2 pennies... >>
Well said. I've made a point of selecting a grade to buy of a particular series where said grade is attractive to me, I can afford it, and the next grade up is 3 to 5 times as expensive, and said next grade up has one or two fewer tick marks. The difference between a Liberty Nickel in MS 66 and MS 67, as well as a Seated $ in MS 64 and MS 65 are examples of this.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I think that a difference in this downturn and suppressed prices cycle, compared to past ones, is that there is a 'Set Registry' component now (here and ATS) that was not present in the other cycles. I also feel that this is definitely more applicable to moderns than the older series. But price jumps for single point increments of thousands of percentage points were non-existent before the registry, or heck, now some of those huge jumps are at the same grade if they have the +. I could easily understand how someone paying the premium to chase points could be turned off when they find their MS67 is no longer top-pop, the MS68 has the premium now, and their coin is now the $300 one and no longer the one for which they paid ~$7,000. Still the same coin, but now barely marketable.
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
My 2 pennies... >>
Well said. I've made a point of selecting a grade to buy of a particular series where said grade is attractive to me, I can afford it, and the next grade up is 3 to 5 times as expensive, and said next grade up has one or two fewer tick marks. The difference between a Liberty Nickel in MS 66 and MS 67, as well as a Seated $ in MS 64 and MS 65 are examples of this. >>
This thought process is what was behind what Dave bowers termed the 'optimal collector grade'.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
<< <i>Ok, will just throw this out here. This forum is very intimidating for many of us new to collecting, not encouraging. Everybody is an expert. I went to the ANA Money Show in Dallas, first show. I tried to look at the coins but most of the dealers would not look my way, they would not even say hello. So you have to be experienced to break into this game or else forget it. Ok, keep your pennies and old silver dollars. Moderns are easier to understand. >>
Sorry you've felt this way, M. I'll try to be more accomodating, myself. I certainly understand your point of view, as there's a particular Australian-based stamp board that I've lurked on for some time, just trying to know more about a childhood hobby that held my father's interest, many years ago. Stamps have always somewhat appealed to me, though I've never pursued them as seriously as coins. But you talk about newbies getting reamed for asking what seems like reasonable questions? Never seen anything like it. With stamps, show something with a minor flaw, and you'll invariably be told by collectors on that board: "if that were to come anywhere near my collection, I'd sooner burn it."
Comparitively, we're quite a friendly bunch here! >>
Thanks for that, I probably should have just kept it to myself in hindsight. Can be pretty entertaining here just lurking!
As an introvert, I do come out of my shell every once in awhile. But I can post something that sounds interesting, to me anyway and possibly a few others but for most on here, they appear dead from the neck up............so why post. Anymore, I can be reached through PMs or email. I also don't care much for letting out viable collecting info. I think a lot of folks who just don't post need to make a better effort around here.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Well here is my take on all of this not necessarily in order of the comments made.
1. I like the diversified approach. Buy what you like and not try to only buy one or two or three coins on your annual budget. The less is more works well only up to a point. What if you make a disastrous mistake on just two of three major coin purchases? It can happen even to the best of us. Instead do the following. Split your annual budget in half. The first half is for your small purchases. The less expensive stuff. They could be sample slabs, junk silver, old collectible books, rare old slabs, some modern stuff, collectible uncirculated rolls, etc, etc. The other half is the special 1 or 2 or 3 coins that would be difficult to buy on a frequent basis as realone suggests. The modified approach I am discussing here cuts the risk factor by half but also reduces the reward factor by possibly half as well. But we are supposedly not overly concerned by the investment reward factor here, are we? We are here to buy what we like and minimize our risk of losses since our families would not too pleased with us?
2. Dollar cost averaging can sometimes work and sometimes not work. But remember this; dollar cost averaging implies you are buying more of the same things you have already bought and now you are buying more of it. Sounds like investing to a degree. If you like what you are buying and feel there are enough collectors who also like what you like then it may work for you. But be careful. I agree that could also present a problem.
3. Mr M; Do not be discouraged that too many here on this board appears to be an expert and are not willing to take the time to ask your questions. I am sure many of us including would be happy to help you out. Just start a thread stating you are a newbie and eneed helping understanding item A item B or whatever. You will be surprised by how many pm's you may get. Certainly feel free to pm as many of us including me to help you out or answer any questions you may have. Infact, I will start an interesting thread just on that point.
4. Eggshells to be concerned about on this forum? i have been a bit outspoken on this board for years but it is not what you say but how you say it. But indeed, the eggshells are thinner than they used to be years ago. But I am sure the eggshells will get stronger again.
5. The downturn. Sure coins have felt some of the pain in the downturn. But all you collectors have to do is watch a few episodes of American Greed on CNBC and al All of a sudden, you will feel like billionaires. Holy mackeral, the losses suffered by those who put their lifetime savings into Bernie Madoff, mini Madoff (Agape, Inc.) etc etc etc! We are a very well off group by comparison!!!
6. Good work Mr. Realone. It was a good thread to start. I do not always agree with you but that is fine with me and I know is fine with you. This thread is right now a little intense for me as I am more worried about my daughter not having heat or electricity in New York City and also watching the 1/2 mile long car lines just to buy gas just a few blocks from where I live. I have not seen that since the 1970's!
Comments
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
My 2 pennies...
<< <i>I think that a difference in this downturn and suppressed prices cycle, compared to past ones, is that there is a 'Set Registry' component now (here and ATS) that was not present in the other cycles. I also feel that this is definitely more applicable to moderns than the older series. But price jumps for single point increments of thousands of percentage points were non-existent before the registry, or heck, now some of those huge jumps are at the same grade if they have the +. I could easily understand how someone paying the premium to chase points could be turned off when they find their MS67 is no longer top-pop, the MS68 has the premium now, and their coin is now the $300 one and no longer the one for which they paid ~$7,000. Still the same coin, but now barely marketable.
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
My 2 pennies... >>
Well said. I've made a point of selecting a grade to buy of a particular series where said grade is attractive to me, I can afford it, and the next grade up is 3 to 5 times as expensive, and said next grade up has one or two fewer tick marks. The difference between a Liberty Nickel in MS 66 and MS 67, as well as a Seated $ in MS 64 and MS 65 are examples of this.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that a difference in this downturn and suppressed prices cycle, compared to past ones, is that there is a 'Set Registry' component now (here and ATS) that was not present in the other cycles. I also feel that this is definitely more applicable to moderns than the older series. But price jumps for single point increments of thousands of percentage points were non-existent before the registry, or heck, now some of those huge jumps are at the same grade if they have the +. I could easily understand how someone paying the premium to chase points could be turned off when they find their MS67 is no longer top-pop, the MS68 has the premium now, and their coin is now the $300 one and no longer the one for which they paid ~$7,000. Still the same coin, but now barely marketable.
It could be that huge premiums for coins are just pushing some people away. I no longer see a beginner's market. A place to buy and learn, to make the mistakes everyone makes, and still come out the other side without losing interest or their shirt in the process.
My 2 pennies... >>
Well said. I've made a point of selecting a grade to buy of a particular series where said grade is attractive to me, I can afford it, and the next grade up is 3 to 5 times as expensive, and said next grade up has one or two fewer tick marks. The difference between a Liberty Nickel in MS 66 and MS 67, as well as a Seated $ in MS 64 and MS 65 are examples of this. >>
This thought process is what was behind what Dave bowers termed the 'optimal collector grade'.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>
<< <i>Ok, will just throw this out here. This forum is very intimidating for many of us new to collecting, not encouraging. Everybody is an expert. I went to the ANA Money Show in Dallas, first show. I tried to look at the coins but most of the dealers would not look my way, they would not even say hello. So you have to be experienced to break into this game or else forget it. Ok, keep your pennies and old silver dollars. Moderns are easier to understand. >>
Sorry you've felt this way, M. I'll try to be more accomodating, myself. I certainly understand your point of view, as there's a particular Australian-based stamp board that I've lurked on for some time, just trying to know more about a childhood hobby that held my father's interest, many years ago.
Comparitively, we're quite a friendly bunch here!
Thanks for that, I probably should have just kept it to myself in hindsight. Can be pretty entertaining here just lurking!
As an introvert, I do come out of my shell every once in awhile. But I can post something that sounds interesting,
to me anyway and possibly a few others but for most on here, they appear dead from the neck up............so why post.
Anymore, I can be reached through PMs or email. I also don't care much for letting out viable collecting info. I think a lot
of folks who just don't post need to make a better effort around here.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i> I think a lot
of folks who just don't post need to make a better effort around here.
I guess all of us are creatures of habit. Some have a harder time breaking out of habits than others.
1. I like the diversified approach. Buy what you like and not try to only buy one or two or three coins on your annual budget. The less is more works well only up to a point. What if you make a disastrous mistake on just two of three major coin purchases? It can happen even to the best of us.
Instead do the following. Split your annual budget in half. The first half is for your small purchases. The less expensive stuff. They could be sample slabs, junk silver, old collectible books, rare old slabs, some modern stuff, collectible uncirculated rolls, etc, etc. The other half is the special 1 or 2 or 3 coins that would be difficult to buy on a frequent basis as realone suggests. The modified approach I am discussing here cuts the risk factor by half but also reduces the reward factor by possibly half as well. But we are supposedly not overly concerned by the investment reward factor here, are we? We are here to buy what we like and minimize our risk of losses since our families would not too pleased with us?
2. Dollar cost averaging can sometimes work and sometimes not work. But remember this; dollar cost averaging implies you are buying more of the same things you have already bought and now you are buying more of it. Sounds like investing to a degree. If you like what you are buying and feel there are enough collectors who also like what you like then it may work for you. But be careful. I agree that could also present a problem.
3. Mr M; Do not be discouraged that too many here on this board appears to be an expert and are not willing to take the time to ask your questions. I am sure many of us including would be happy to help you out. Just start a thread stating you are a newbie and eneed helping understanding item A item B or whatever. You will be surprised by how many pm's you may get. Certainly feel free to pm as many of us including me to help you out or answer any questions you may have. Infact, I will start an interesting thread just on that point.
4. Eggshells to be concerned about on this forum? i have been a bit outspoken on this board for years but it is not what you say but how you say it. But indeed, the eggshells are thinner than they used to be years ago. But I am sure the eggshells will get stronger again.
5. The downturn. Sure coins have felt some of the pain in the downturn. But all you collectors have to do is watch a few episodes of American Greed on CNBC and al
All of a sudden, you will feel like billionaires. Holy mackeral, the losses suffered by those who put their lifetime savings into Bernie Madoff, mini Madoff (Agape, Inc.) etc etc etc! We are a very well off group by comparison!!!
6. Good work Mr. Realone. It was a good thread to start. I do not always agree with you but that is fine with me and I know is fine with you. This thread is right now a little intense for me as I am more worried about my daughter not having heat or electricity in New York City and also watching the 1/2 mile long car lines just to buy gas just a few blocks from where I live. I have not seen that since the 1970's!
More but that is enough at this hour.