1945-S US Half.....ms66 or maybe higher? 2nd time submitted PCGS Grade posted.

DoubleEagle59

***1st time - Damage Unc Details***

***2nd time - MS64***

_____________________________________

I snapped this one up real quick at a Canadian coin show awhile ago.

It's an ICCS graded MS66 1945-S US half.

It has that booming luster, near flawless surfaces and it also has that 'halo' of frostiness found on high grade halves.

I'm so tempted to crack it out and send it to PCGS hoping for a 67 (it has to be a 66 at least).

Here's the photos.....let me hear what you think.

WoodenJefferson

Question...what is going on with the rim by the date?

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>Question...what is going on with the rim by the date? >>



That's just the scratched plastic flip.

Rim is definitely OK.

By the way, I don't think it would get a 67 at PCGS, as I just checked the prices.

I thought ms67's went for about $1500 (most of them do, I guess), but the 'S' mintmarks go for 10X that amount!!

LanceNewmanOCC

.
go ahead and send it to pcgs. they have put some funky coins into ms67 holders and yours looks very nice
.

Justlooking

Looks like a winner.

stealer

Super clean coin but I'm afraid the strike might withhold it from a 7 holder

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>Super clean coin but I'm afraid the strike might withhold it from a 7 holder >>



Would you be referring to the soft strike of the eagle's leg?

WoodenJefferson

The weakness of the strike appears in the motto, "In God We Trust"

The coin is mark free but does not have that 'punch' to elevate it to 67 status for a Walker, but hey, you never know what the outcome will be until it hits the graders.

Hint: the value in a top tier will validate the grade much better than the heat sealed flip.

Walkerfan

It looks like a nice coin and it would look great in a PCGS MS 66 slab.

stealer

<< <i>

<< <i>Super clean coin but I'm afraid the strike might withhold it from a 7 holder >>



Would you be referring to the soft strike of the eagle's leg? >>


Yes.

That said, I don't think the strike of the motto has much bearing on the coin's grade.

Raybo

That's a very nice "s"!

WoodenJefferson

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Super clean coin but I'm afraid the strike might withhold it from a 7 holder >>



Would you be referring to the soft strike of the eagle's leg? >>


Yes.

That said, I don't think the strike of the motto has much bearing on the coin's grade. >>



I was merely pointing out an obvious area where the strike on this coin is a tad bit mushy, I never stated that it had any bearing on the grade due to the weakness, this particular coin doesn't posses the 'pizazz' a 67 graded Walker has. You'll know one when you see it!

DorkGirl

Beautiful half

DennisH

That's a really sweet looking Walker !

But there's one mark that jumped out at me -- it's dead-center on the obverse above Liberty's left knee. Is that a scuff/mark on the coin or on the plastic flip? If it's on the flip then I think it's a hand-down 66. As you mentioned, the value of a 67 is ridiculous, but I think the quality of the coin makes it possible.

MICHAELDIXON

It is an exceptional strike for the 1945 S and a beautiful coin! The first BU Walker I ever bought (1972) was a 45 S and it had a terrible strike. I do not think it would make it into a 67 holder because of several minor ticks on the face, the right hand has a tick, appears to be several lines in the flag centered between the L and Y of LIBERTY and the motto isn't fully struck up. My advice: "Giver a try!"

Elcontador

From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse..

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



PCGSms67withmarkedskirtlines

Matrix1980

Whatever the grade it is a stunning/sexy coin for sure!!!

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>Whatever the grade it is a stunning/sexy coin for sure!!! >>



Thanks...you know that Brian doesn't hand out ms66 grades very easily.

I think I just may have to send this to PCGS.

Matrix1980

DoubleEagle59

ICCS to me is # 1 for Canadian coins (Ultra conservative graders)...you should yes have it graded by PCGS...I would. 1st time I see a U.S coin in a ICCS holder funny I had not even seen that before you just said so...your coin is to nice to even bother looking who graded it!!! Do you mind me asking how much you paid for it? I am jealous that is the perfect look for a coin in my standards you are lucky sir!!! I would have purchased it very fast as well and had a huge smile on my face!!!

tradedollarnut

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



If I submitted that coin and it received a 65, I would shoot myself.

Looks like a lock 66+ shot 67 to me.

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



If I submitted that coin and it received a 65, I would shoot myself.

Looks like a lock 66+ shot 67 to me. >>



Took the words right out of my mouth!!

Matrix1980

DoubleEagle59

To give you a idea if my 1921 50 cent (Canadian coin) was a U.S coin it would be in a PCGS holder and if it was a Canadian coin it would be in a ICCS holder. I would not want my coin to be limited only to a certain market...especially when it is a gem of a coin like the one you have!!!

Matrix1980

If it comes back a MS-67 by PCGS you will have a 22 500$ coin on your hands and based on the PCGS price guide it has been going up and up and up over the years in MS-67....not as much for lower grades below MS-67.

coinkat

I think 66+ is the floor on this one unless the coin looks worse in hand than in the images. 67 is possible based on lustre and eye appeal.

Matrix1980

Out of 10 832 coins graded by PCGS for this date and type there have been only 8 that hit the MS-67 mark and NONE higher. Yours could very well be number 9 on that list.

DoubleEagle59

Thanks everyone for your insight.

I'll definitely update this thread when I have it graded.

Elcontador

So you have linked to a coin which was overgraded. People, even the best of the best, make mistakes sometimes. It depends on what floats your boat.

To me, a market graded coin (like that one) isn't a correctly graded coin. It's just like the people who pay VF money for a 24 S Buff that doesn't have a full horn. I would never buy a coin like that, nor would I buy a Walker in a 7 holder that had contact marks in its skirt lines, like that one.

I collect Liberty Nickels in PC 6. Someone showed me an 83 NC that got into a PC 7 holder (very few of them get into 7 holders), despite the noticeable, but not hideous, hit on the upper part of the V on the reverse. I've seen plenty of 6s like that (a 6 either has clean surfaces but not the great eye appeal of a 7, or the 6 has a 7's eye appeal, but a contact mark like the one described), but to me, that 7 I just described was overgraded, and wasn't worth the 3X the price of that coin in a 6 holder.

If someone else wants to buy a coin like the the ones I described, many dealers and a few auction houses will be very happy to accommodate you.

Elcontador

<< <i>

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



If I submitted that coin and it received a 65, I would shoot myself.

Looks like a lock 66+ shot 67 to me. >>



Would you use a S & W 38 or a Glock 40? From that image, I wouldn't pay 6 money for that coin. It's not an unattractive coin, but from the 6s I've seen, it doesn't measure up.

tradedollarnut

All classic coins are net graded. Some value certain attributes over others. There are those who focus overtly on strike (quite a few on this chatroom). Others who focus on hits (from the body of your posts, I would say this is the case for you). And yet still others who will be attracted to full swirling luster (this is me).

No one attribute overwhelms the other in the net grade game - but a coin with full swirling luster starts off a bit higher from my experience. This is such a coin.

grip

I call it a run of the mill 66,that's all folks!!

magikbilly

Hi :-)

I looked again at the pictures carefully. That plastic is not crystal clear. I also see what Bruce is saying. If, in hand, the luster is killer. Looks like it very well might be. But, in my humble book, this is a 66+, today. 66 to me.

Best wishes,
Eric

roadrunner

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



If I submitted that coin and it received a 65, I would shoot myself.

Looks like a lock 66+ shot 67 to me. >>



Took the words right out of my mouth!! >>




Out of my mouth too. Heck of a coin that presents itself as a MS67 on first glance. Ultra clean fields are the major driver with tics on the figures secondary. It has the look,
luster with pizzazz as welll. It's a 45-s too...not a common Philly coin. Obverse looks more like an ASE than a Walker. You can't say that very often. With ICCS coins having
almost zero standing in the US market, you don't have much choice other than to get it graded by PCGS or NGC. Looks 66+ all day long. On the bright side, if this comes back a 65,
you'll get a gold bean for sure and still have a coin worth 66 money. I have seen some near flawless walkers come back as 65 when a 67 was expected. It doesn't mean the first
grading attempt is correct. Gem Walkers and SLQ's to me seem to be some of the most inconsistently graded coins in the 64-67 range. I'd wager that of those 9 MS67's, not all of
them will have fields as clean as this coin.

Elcontador

Bruce, I agree that attractive toning / eye appeal is worth a point in this market. I have a 38 D Buff in a 7 holder because of it. I can't tell from the image whether this is the case with the coin under discussion. I'd need to see the coin. If this is in fact is the case with this coin (due to the way images can be manipulated or what they just don't show under the best of circumstances, I'm not sold on the 6 grade based on an image), I could see it in a 6 holder.

originalisbest

Elcontador, I simply think you're revealing your too-picky bias. Waiting 5, 10, 20 years for "just the right coin" of a given type to come along may work for some, more power to you if it works for you, but of course in the meantime the market's prices can pass you by. For this specific coin -- easy 66, possible 67 IMO.

WoodenJefferson

Were talking about a 67 (the grade some think it might receive) year old coin that has a very small percentage of those minted that qualify for MS-67 and above, they don't just fall off the tree like other modern series coins do.

One of the major problems and misconceptions with submitting is the expectation. Your thinking, maybe 67, lock 66 and it comes back to you in 65 and you want to kick a dirt clod and mumble that the graders don't know what in the heck they are doing.

Speculation will not change the grade, it is what it is, no more, no less.

JeffinMich

I know it's an "S" mint, but what about the lack of thumb detail on the hand near the hip? Isn't that another sign of a softer strike?

crazyhounddog

SWEET coin my man!! Send it in and I'll sure you'll fair well....Good luck....CHD

georgiacop50

Awesome! Looka like an ASE that some clown photoshopped the date on...

WoodenJefferson

<< <i>I know it's an "S" mint, but what about the lack of thumb detail on the hand near the hip? Isn't that another sign of a softer strike? >>



This area (thumb) is a inherent area (lowest spot in the die) that does not strike up well with many high graded Walkers. Collectors often look at the skirt lines and thumb to determine a well struck coin, but having a full thumb or all the skirt lines for the most part is a marketing gimmick, used to re-enforce eye appeal. Will it help in the grade, yes, especially a mark free coin, it improves the esthetic over all quality, but is not required 100% of the time.

Elcontador

<< <i>Elcontador, I simply think you're revealing your too-picky bias. Waiting 5, 10, 20 years for "just the right coin" of a given type to come along may work for some, more power to you if it works for you, but of course in the meantime the market's prices can pass you by. For this specific coin -- easy 66, possible 67 IMO. >>



It depends on how available the specific coin you are looking for happens to be. If you want to buy a type Seated or Barber Dime in an MS 66 holder that's all there for the grade, it is not difficult to find. However, re Barber Half in an MS 65 holder, you can pick up the equivalent of a turd for the grade rather easily. A nice one is difficult to find.

Re the specific coin in the thread, I learned more than ten years ago never to grade a coin from an image. I have never bought a coin from an image because of what I know -- and I think everyone else on this forum should know -- about coin images. In coin series of which I am familiar, the difference between a 5 and 6 is often that either the latter has a bit more eye appeal, or the latter has a tick or two less, than the former. The differences can be quite subtle. An image is not going to reveal this to you. You must see the coin.

DIMEMAN

Personally I would be afraid to pay 66 money for this coin.

I think it will grade 65 at PCGS. This is based on what I see in PCGS holders.

relicsncoins

<< <i>From what I see, your grade is limited to MS 65 due to the numerous small contact marks on the skirt lines. Unless grading standards have changed, you see them on 5s, but not on 6s. I have a 36 S in PC 6 & it has booming luster, clean skirtlines and sun, and a few minor contact marks on the reverse.. >>



The marks on the skirt are on the highest relief part of the coin and are likely left over planchet marks that were not removed by the striking of the coin.

tradedollarnut

Undergrading is as much a sin as overgrading.

Bochiman

Man, I just love hearing the trashing of a graded coin from those who haven't held it in-hand and have only seen a photo or two online

coinkat

Grading remains and will likely always have a significant subjective component-

As long as subjectivity is a factor, there are no right or wrong answers- but some opinions are and will prove to be clearly better than others.

Elcontador

<< <i>Undergrading is as much a sin as overgrading. >>



I agree with the above. That's why every coin I buy, I, or someone I trust, either sees it in hand and think it's nice for the assigned grade, or I pass.

DoubleEagle59

Grade just received from PCGS........Unc details (for tooling)

phnatacc

Counting machine damage on the rim under the date?

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>Counting machine damage on the rim under the date? >>



No, that was on the ICCS plastic slip. (sharp rim had abraded the plastic; this happens often with ICCS holders).