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Are grade and price the same thing?

DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Is seeking a third-party opinion of grade the same as asking for an appraisal? Does everyone market grade?
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor

Comments

  • Matrix1980Matrix1980 Posts: 553 ✭
    To me grade = value and value = grade....that is how the market has always been.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is seeking a third-party opinion of grade the same as asking for an appraisal? Does everyone market grade? >>


    Of course. Dr. Sheldon's original intent was to create a price scale for coins.
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623 ✭


    << <i>To me grade = value and value = grade....that is how the market has always been. >>



    While I agree with that in an absolute sense it doesn't account for the variance inside of same grade coins
  • Matrix1980Matrix1980 Posts: 553 ✭
    crypto79:

    True!! Like they say always buy the coin not the holder!! I should have said value = grade and grade = value as long as the coin grading is consistent with the grading guide lines used by all....then again they should use more of the mid grade like say G-06 or VG-10 or F-15.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is seeking a third-party opinion of grade the same as asking for an appraisal? >>

    If grade and price were the same thing, all MS65s of a particular date would be priced the same.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As long as the tern "eye appeal" is involved in grading then no grade and price are not the same.
    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • Matrix1980Matrix1980 Posts: 553 ✭
    LindeDad

    How about CAC stickers??
  • valente151valente151 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭
    Check this out:

    Jerry Bobbe on "How and Why Grade Must Equal Price"
    My Retired Toned Proof Mercury Dime Set
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    To some extent it's like a price range.

    If a TPG has a guarantee and there's a problem they back the guarantee on the market price based on the grade.
    Ed
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>LindeDad

    How about CAC stickers?? >>



    I see them as nice to have but not a factor of price until someone proves to me that all graded coins have been reviewed by CAC.
    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jerry Bobbe on "How and Why Grade Must Equal Price" >>

    "Must?" Claims of absolutes are risky, IMO.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, no , no.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Two coins can have the same grade but be priced differently because of differences in eye appeal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Jerry Bobbe on "How and Why Grade Must Equal Price" >>

    "Must?" Claims of absolutes are risky, IMO. >>


    They may be risky. image

    I think that grade anchors a coin to a price, but the anchor can be dragged in either direction, sometimes substantially.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • RodebaughRodebaugh Posts: 304 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No, no , no. >>



    image
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think that grade anchors a coin to a price, but the anchor can be dragged in either direction, sometimes substantially. >>

    A substantial dragging would pretty much invaildate a claim of "grade must equal price", I would think. image
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Richard Picker. didn't grade his coins he just priced them. Judging from the number of exceptional pieces I see which include his name on the Pedigree his system must have worked well.
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think grading is overrated. I've sold coins saying I grade it a certain amount of $$$$. Doesn't leave much room for argument that way.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think grading is overrated. I've sold coins saying I grade it a certain amount of $$$$. Doesn't leave much room for argument that way. >>

    +

    I remember many years ago sending stman a PM with an image of a coin and asking his thoughts. He said he liked it so I asked him to give me his opinion of its grade. His reply... I grade it about $140.00
    True story.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think grading is overrated. I've sold coins saying I grade it a certain amount of $$$$. Doesn't leave much room for argument that way. >>

    +

    I remember many years ago sending stman a PM with an image of a coin and asking his thoughts. He said he liked it so I asked him to give me his opinion of its grade. His reply... I grade it about $140.00
    True story. >>




    Sounds like something I would do....... was I close?
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I think grading is overrated. I've sold coins saying I grade it a certain amount of $$$$. Doesn't leave much room for argument that way. >>

    +

    I remember many years ago sending stman a PM with an image of a coin and asking his thoughts. He said he liked it so I asked him to give me his opinion of its grade. His reply... I grade it about $140.00
    True story. >>




    Sounds like something I would do....... was I close? >>



    I had just purchased the coin for $145.00.
    I would say that was pretty closeimage
    He is one smart man that stman.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,678 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heck No! Quality determines price----not grade. And that is something that you must be able to determine YOURSELF. Grading is highly variable or subjective.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • MercfanMercfan Posts: 701 ✭✭
    Clearly not, because it's possible (and common) for a coin to have one of those properties (price) change over time while the other property (grade) remains the same. Therefore, price and grade are logically distinct properties of coins.

    image
    "Coin collecting problem"? What "coin collecting problem"?
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Higher grade usually equals higher price.

    Exception: AU58 <-- MS60. image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154 ✭


    << <i>Is seeking a third-party opinion of grade the same as asking for an appraisal? Does everyone market grade? >>



    Sure, but because of market inefficiencies, price paid may or may not reflect the grade.

    And to clarify, I regard grade as a continuum just as pricing within a grade is a continuum.
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think grading is overrated. I've sold coins saying I grade it a certain amount of $$$$. Doesn't leave much room for argument that way. >>



    This. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608 ✭
    Grade and price are correlated, however it is not a straight line correlation. Price has many additional inputs, such as perceived quality for the grade, the holder, the buyer, the seller, the venue, whether the coin is being sold retail (as one coin) or as part of a large collection (likely wholesale price). A single coin will trade for a wide range of prices at different venues, between different people. The same coin might trade for say $100 (just to make up a number) in a big wholesale deal and in select cases, much later after five other dealers have made their money, sell for $400 at a retail venue to a collector.

    Coins in the same holder will trade at a wide range of prices even at the same venue such as a true auction. The range might be a full 100% low to high. Using the same kind of price example, true auction prices might range $250 to $500. , and that's only on perceived quality, and not exceptional factors such as pretty toning or die-varieties.

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  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that grade anchors a coin to a price, but the anchor can be dragged in either direction, sometimes substantially. >>

    A substantial dragging would pretty much invaildate a claim of "grade must equal price", I would think. image >>


    I will restate this. Grade often provides a starting point for price discussion and determination.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    RedTiger, Robert Solow won the 2002 Nobel prize, in part, for demonstrating what you just said. Market signals are never perfect and transactions are always context dependent.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suggest you read this thread.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • noownoow Posts: 387
    How about sample slabs?

    image
    My BST
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grade for a particular coin tends to remain constant. Price does not.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • yellowkidyellowkid Posts: 5,486 ✭
    Potential of HUGE price spread for a grade.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A coin's grade does set a price range on a specific coin. EAC does not market grade, but if you're not an early copper collector, it is irrelevant to you.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
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    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grade = Value for generics in many cases, other than that eye appeal plays a major role in determining value, such as cases where a coin may have a superb strike or toning or some other attributes.
    I'm guessing the greatest disparity between grade and price is in early copper. I think this is demonstrated quite nicely in CQR, where grades by date and variety not only consider technical wear, but are also categorized by surface quality, i.e. scudzy, average, and choice. The strict 'net grading' applied by EAC'ers likewise helps determines market value for coppers.
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  • JustlookingJustlooking Posts: 2,895 ✭
    I'd say grading equals a coin's base value. If you buy PCGS, you can buy sight-unseen and be reasonably sure you're getting what you paid for.

    BUT ... there are a ton of variables to a coin's true value. You might not be able to argue that an MS65 is really an MS64, but luster, toning, the location of marks and minor dings ... it's all in the eye of the beholder.

    So yes, a good starting point, but in the end, a coin's value is determined when the coin is purchased.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are grade and price the same thing?

    since we all use a "price-guide" system in one form or another(which is typically accepted by us all) and the listed prices are always tied to a "Grade" it leads me to assume that the answer to Don's question may not be liked, but it is unmistakeable. the buyer and seller only need to agree on either a price or a grade.

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