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1880 T$ Proof, Overweight.

2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I was in a shop recently when a man brought in a 1880 Proof Trade Dollar, the coin was raw in an airtight holder. The diagnostics looked fine, and the appearance of the details looked consistent for a warn proof dollar. However when the coin was weighed, it was 27.4 grams, a little over the acceptable weight of the series. The dealer offered to submit the coin for authentication, and then talk money once the coin was returned authentic.

Is it common for Trade $'s to be over weight? Is that a red flag?
WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!

Comments

  • TwinturboTwinturbo Posts: 493
    How heavily worn?
    Au? Xf?
    Depending on the wear, it could be authentic.
    Some morgans in the ag-G range lose as much as 2 grams of weight, but in au/ xf hardly noticeable difference

  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, something is possibly wrong. The dealer was correct. My first thought was it was an off-metal pattern, but I don't see any listed for 1880.
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  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623 ✭


    << <i>Yeah, something is possibly wrong. The dealer was correct. My first thought was it was an off-metal pattern, but I don't see any listed for 1880. >>



    That is a major red flag, are there any mirrors? I would only talk to him after it came back from PCGS or post a picture and we might be able to save you the trouble.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That would be enough to put me off.... Cheers, RickO
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,102 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That would be enough to put me off.... Cheers, RickO >>

    ill second that
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I was in a shop recently when a man brought in a 1880 Proof Trade Dollar, the coin was raw in an airtight holder. The diagnostics looked fine, and the appearance of the details looked consistent for a warn proof dollar. However when the coin was weighed, it was 27.4 grams, a little over the acceptable weight of the series. The dealer offered to submit the coin for authentication, and then talk money once the coin was returned authentic.

    Is it common for Trade $'s to be over weight? Is that a red flag? >>



    I would not condemn it based on being slightly overweight. By 1880 it was know that the series was discontinued, so any planchets made for the Proof Trade Dollars would have been s special production batch, rolled slightly thicker than a standard dollar. With silver being very cheap, they might not have cared if the blank for a collector coin was slightly overweight.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    Proof coins, especially circulated proof coins, should not be overweight.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Proof coins, especially circulated proof coins, should not be overweight. >>



    Why not? The weight tolerance on a standard silver dollar of the era was six grains, or 0.389 grams. If that same weight tolerance was allowed on a Trade Dollar as well (and I do not know the official tolerance for a trade dollar, but I'll betchya it was pretty darn close to that of a standard dollar) then the legal high weight of a Trade Dollar is slightly over 27.60 grams.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The weight doesn't scare me much. I also wouldn't be so sure the dealer's scale was 100% accurate.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The weight doesn't scare me much. I also wouldn't be so sure the dealer's scale was 100% accurate. >>


    image I don't understand why a lot of people always assume the OPs given weights and other dimensions are the word of God.
  • Tdec1000Tdec1000 Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The weight doesn't scare me much. I also wouldn't be so sure the dealer's scale was 100% accurate. >>


    image I don't understand why a lot of people always assume the OPs given weights and other dimensions are the word of God. >>



    Agreed! Gotta love this forum tho! Everybody is an expert! image

    Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!

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  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The weight doesn't scare me much. I also wouldn't be so sure the dealer's scale was 100% accurate. >>


    image I don't understand why a lot of people always assume the OPs given weights and other dimensions are the word of God. >>



    This. Have you tried weighing it yourself?
  • MilkmanDanMilkmanDan Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The weight doesn't scare me much. I also wouldn't be so sure the dealer's scale was 100% accurate. >>


    Good point, although how many dealer's scales are going to say your bullion weighs more than it actually does?

    Edit: this wasn't a dig at the good ones...more like the "WE BUY GOLD" crowd.
  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know my digital scale is .22 grams heavy, doesnt bother me when buying. Im not a full time dealer either though.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Did the dealer check his scale with a silver eagle or something new and know weight? --Jerry
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Did the dealer check his scale with a silver eagle or something new and know weight? --Jerry >>



    What? And be scientific?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Did the dealer check his scale with a silver eagle or something new and know weight? --Jerry >>



    What? And be scientific? >>


    I don't see why everyone has their panties in a wad over .2 grams image

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