Legend Market Report: END OF SEPTEMBER REPORT
bronzemat
Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
0
bronzemat
Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
I have to take exception to her comment about puttied coins in PCGS holders. Anyone who has the misfortune of owning a PCGS certified coin that may have putty or any other contaminant on the surfaces need only to send the coin in to us and we will take care off it. That means either correcting the problem (in this case removing the putty) or buying the coin.
The PCGS guarantee is the best in the industry and is the foundation on which all certified coin trading has been built. Collectors and Dealers alike buy and sell PCGS coins with complete confidence in our guarantee. Lots of dealers put stickers on our coins adding their stamp of approval. When it comes down to it though, it's the PCGS guarantee that stands behind all of them.
Over the past 26 years PCGS has graded app. 25 million coins. They are all guaranteed by us for authenticity and grade. Enough said?
I encourage this customer of Legend to contact us and we will take care of him.
<< <i>I enjoy reading Laura's market reports. Her perspective is interesting and informative.
I have to take exception to her comment about puttied coins in PCGS holders. Anyone who has the misfortune of owning a PCGS certified coin that may have putty or any other contaminant on the surfaces need only to send the coin in to us and we will take care off it. That means either correcting the problem (in this case removing the putty) or buying the coin.
The PCGS guarantee is the best in the industry and is the foundation on which all certified coin trading has been built. Collectors and Dealers alike buy and sell PCGS coins with complete confidence in our guarantee. Lots of dealers put stickers on our coins adding their stamp of approval. When it comes down to it though, it's the PCGS guarantee that stands behind all of them.
Over the past 26 years PCGS has graded app. 25 million coins. They are all guaranteed by us for authenticity and grade. Enough said?
I encourage this customer of Legend to contact us and we will take care of him. >>
I believe that LS only said that the puttied coin was in a non-CAC holder and didn't identify the holder. The other "plea for contact" preceded the puttied coin comment and merely sounds to me like they would like to buy the coin back from the customer.
<< <i>Keep in mind Laura is an owner of CAC she whines about PCGS coins to try to prove the need for CAC becasue it benefits her pocket book >>
This is a stupid comment. Laura has cost herself more money than she's made by rejecting coins with problems that she could have sold or made representation fees on in auction.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
In any event, wouldn't it be better to simply not buy a puttied coin in the first place? I'd prefer a non-puttied coin whether it was beaned or not.
<< <i>Another great example of what NOT to do-a collector we know got so jumpy he wasn't finding any coins, He went out on his own (he thought that w/slabbing he did not have to worry) and bought an expensive non CAC coin at what he thought was a cheap price. What he did not know, was the entire dealer community knew the coin was puttied and valued it far LESS then what he paid. Now he blames the market-but still thinks he will get out alive one day. We doubt he ever will. And now he has a black eye in his collection. OUCH! Do NOT be so stupid! >>
<< <i>TDN's comment (above) seems reasonable to me. Since the appearance of CAC, and the influence that the beans have on marketplace perceptions, it certainly appears that CAC has made life more difficult for many dealers. For example, what do they say when a prospective buyer asks why a particular coin doesn't have a bean? Buying coins that have beans has become more costly for dealers too, helping to erode dealer profit margins. >>
Another perspective on the is that beans have made it easier for collectors to buy better coins. Making things more difficult for dealers may not be the primary goal but may be an issue for those dealers that rely on less knowledgable collectors.
<< <i>She didn't mention the TPG of the puttied coin.
In any event, wouldn't it be better to simply not buy a puttied coin in the first place? I'd prefer a non-puttied coin whether it was beaned or not.
<< <i>Another great example of what NOT to do-a collector we know got so jumpy he wasn't finding any coins, He went out on his own (he thought that w/slabbing he did not have to worry) and bought an expensive non CAC coin at what he thought was a cheap price. What he did not know, was the entire dealer community knew the coin was puttied and valued it far LESS then what he paid. Now he blames the market-but still thinks he will get out alive one day. We doubt he ever will. And now he has a black eye in his collection. OUCH! Do NOT be so stupid! >>
>>
Apparently the collector would have preferred the non-puttied coin too, cept he didn't know how to tell and relied on the slabber to do it for him.
<< <i>
<< <i>TDN's comment (above) seems reasonable to me. Since the appearance of CAC, and the influence that the beans have on marketplace perceptions, it certainly appears that CAC has made life more difficult for many dealers. For example, what do they say when a prospective buyer asks why a particular coin doesn't have a bean? Buying coins that have beans has become more costly for dealers too, helping to erode dealer profit margins. >>
Another perspective on the is that beans have made it easier for collectors to buy better coins. Making things more difficult for dealers may not be the primary goal but may be an issue for those dealers that rely on less knowledgable collectors. >>
I certainly do not believe that the CAC founders intended to make life harder for dealers in general. Some dealers evidently do feel this way, and pointedly refuse to note whether coins in their online inventories have CAC beans or not. CAC, in my opinion, has been helpful to collectors of many types of coins (less so for early coppers), as have the TPGs. Both have acted to decrease the knowledge gap between dealers and collectors; this has cost dealers dearly.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>This is a stupid comment. >>
This is about as harsh as Laura calling people chat room whiners if they happen to have a comment she doesn't like. It seems to me quite reasonable to assume that if someone has a financial interest in a competitive company that might enter the back of their mind when writing their little blurbs. Not assuming that would be pretty stupid in my view, at least in my case I never assume that people involved in commerce are looking out for my best interest.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>This is a stupid comment. >>
This is about as harsh as Laura calling people chat room whiners if they happen to have a comment she doesn't like. It seems to me quite reasonable to assume that if someone has a financial interest in a competitive company that might enter the back of their mind when writing their little blurbs. Not assuming that would be pretty stupid in my view, at least in my case I never assume that people involved in commerce are looking out for my best interest. >>
But it was a stupid comment because the poster passed harshly critical judgment on Laura's motives out of either ignorance or malice.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>But it was a stupid comment because the poster passed harshly critical judgment on Laura's motives out of either ignorance or malice. >>
I agree. The new poster claims Laura is critical of PCGS services but, IMO, Laura's recent posts, including this one, have promoted PCGS coins quite heavily.
<< <i>Every week Laura says in one way or another that PCGS doesn't know what they are doing and therefore you are stupid to buy any coin that someone hasn't paid her company $10 to put a green sticker on the PCGS slab. I'll take PCGS's reputation over carnival barker’s claims any day. >>
Have you been reading what she's writing? I ask because your post doesn't mirror what she actually writes.
In this report, she mentions PCGS 19 times in all positive ways. She also mentions 3 PCGS non-beaned coins that she likes and has purchased, including PCGS 06666134. If you are saying Laura believes you are stupid to buy PCGS 06666134 because it isn't beaned, I couldn't disagree with you more.
<< <i>Every week Laura says in one way or another that PCGS doesn't know what they are doing and therefore you are stupid to buy any coin that someone hasn't paid her company $10 to put a green sticker on the PCGS slab. I'll take PCGS's reputation over carnival barker’s claims any day. >>
False. She prefers PCGS coins with CAC, or another way to say that is she prefers high end PCGS coins. Just because a coin isn't high quality for the grade doesn't mean PCGS screwed up.
<< <i>
<< <i>She didn't mention the TPG of the puttied coin.
In any event, wouldn't it be better to simply not buy a puttied coin in the first place? I'd prefer a non-puttied coin whether it was beaned or not.
<< <i>Another great example of what NOT to do-a collector we know got so jumpy he wasn't finding any coins, He went out on his own (he thought that w/slabbing he did not have to worry) and bought an expensive non CAC coin at what he thought was a cheap price. What he did not know, was the entire dealer community knew the coin was puttied and valued it far LESS then what he paid. Now he blames the market-but still thinks he will get out alive one day. We doubt he ever will. And now he has a black eye in his collection. OUCH! Do NOT be so stupid! >>
>>
Apparently the collector would have preferred the non-puttied coin too, cept he didn't know how to tell and relied on the slabber to do it for him. >>
It's also good to have a trusted dealer review the coin, especially if the entire dealer community knows something you don't.
Legend-Morphy Auctions is the Official Auctioneer of PCGS Members Only Shows.
Owner of CAC. (Can anyone confirm this?)
I would promote PCGS-CAC coins also.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>I would promote PCGS-CAC coins also. >>
It's good to promote PCGS/CAC, but it's also good to promote PCGS/non-CAC. Check out PCGS/non-CAC 06666134 which she mentions in the article.
<< <i>
<< <i>Every week Laura says in one way or another that PCGS doesn't know what they are doing and therefore you are stupid to buy any coin that someone hasn't paid her company $10 to put a green sticker on the PCGS slab. I'll take PCGS's reputation over carnival barker’s claims any day. >>
Have you been reading what she's writing? I ask because your post doesn't mirror what she actually writes.
In this report, she mentions PCGS 19 times in all positive ways. She also mentions 3 PCGS non-beaned coins that she likes and has purchased, including PCGS 06666134. If you are saying Laura believes you are stupid to buy PCGS 06666134 because it isn't beaned, I couldn't disagree with you more. >>
Stop making sense Zoins. I've never seen so many people join these boards just to bash Legend. In this case it's almost comical.
Spooly unless something has changed she has a financial stake in CAC.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Member, Society of Silver Dollar Collectors.
Looking for PCGS AU58+ 1901-P, 1896-O, & 1894-O
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Every week Laura says in one way or another that PCGS doesn't know what they are doing and therefore you are stupid to buy any coin that someone hasn't paid her company $10 to put a green sticker on the PCGS slab. I'll take PCGS's reputation over carnival barker’s claims any day. >>
Have you been reading what she's writing? I ask because your post doesn't mirror what she actually writes.
In this report, she mentions PCGS 19 times in all positive ways. She also mentions 3 PCGS non-beaned coins that she likes and has purchased, including PCGS 06666134. If you are saying Laura believes you are stupid to buy PCGS 06666134 because it isn't beaned, I couldn't disagree with you more. >>
Stop making sense Zoins. I've never seen so many people join these boards just to bash Legend. In this case it's almost comical.
Spooly unless something has changed she has a financial stake in CAC.
MJ >>
Yes, she still does but I don't. And I don't always defend Laura - I've called her out for being tupid plenty of times. However, in this case, it's the new alt who is being tupid.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>ColdHardCopper---Are you an alt? It's unusual for a new member to come on so strongly. >>
I'd say the answer to that is obvious.
Some say Laura is all hot air, some say a tireless advocate for collectors over coin doctors. The truth, as in all of life, is somewhere in between. Whatever she may be, she certainly doesn't deserve the pure venom being spouted by this alt.
<< <i>
<< <i>ColdHardCopper---Are you an alt? It's unusual for a new member to come on so strongly. >>
I'd say the answer to that is obvious.
Some say Laura is all hot air, some say a tireless advocate for collectors over coin doctors. The truth, as in all of lefe, is somewhere in between. Whatever she may be, she certainly doesn't deserve the pure venom being spouted by this alt. >>
I think your account has been hijacked by someone. Your spelling is off today.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>It really amazes me sometimes why a select few have such hard feelings towards Ms. Sperber and Legend. With all the lowlife coin doctors, scammers, counterfeiters, outright crooks and otherwise bottom of the barrel individuals out there, certainly there are far better targets to constantly pick at? >>
She is one of the few dealers who will publicly call a spade a spade, and deserves kudos for that. Look beyond the typos and grammatical errors; what is important is the message. And I wish that more dealers would post their views of the current state of the market. As a collector who attempts to keep up with the changing state of the coin market, I find views from the other side of the table helpful.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I have dealt with Laura for about ten plus years now after observing her in action for ten years without buying anything from her.
In the ten years of buying from her she is more concerned about making sure the coin(s) you buy fit well in your collection rather than just buy whatever she has for sale.
She has often stated to me "that this coin is not for you (even if CAC stickered)."
There are many other dealers in addition who also take the time to understand their buying customers.
Another comment, I have had the luxury of having my gold coins reviewed by an extra of eyeballs and admit that I took the PCGS graded gold coins that were determined to be puttied back to PCGS and they were wonderful in removing the putty and reslabbing them. The coins actually looked fine for the assigned graded without the putty and I was satisfied with their look.
I believe that in many cases, the doctors that puttied the gold coins were just overzealous in getting the coins to look more bag-mark fee and that they were just fine without the makeup.
edited for typos!
<< <i>Who is coldhardcopper? I do not see any posts? >>
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I believe that there are doctors among us....... I traded for a gaudens, that when I was on the floor looked clean. Fast forward 40 minutes (2 hot dogs and fries) I get home and look at the coin that the dealer (prolific poster on this board) said was one of the nicest saints he has had in years..... Puttied on the breast. Lesson learned. It was in the other top holder (not pcgs) for disclosure. >>
Out of curiosity, was the dealer willing to take the coin back and is the dealer a PNG member?
<< <i>I do not know the answer to either question, however he inspected the coin, quite carefully, with his loupe prior to the sale ( at least 6-10 seconds). Scratch that, according to his website he is a PNG member. >>
Interesting. Did you inform him he sold you a puttied coin? It's good to know there are PNG dealers out there that can look at a coin for 6-10 seconds and then sell an undisclosed puttied coin.
What did you end up doing with the coin?
<< <i>"BUY THE BEST QUALITY YOU CAN AFFORD AND HOLD FOR THE LONG TERM"
How would some of you folks interpret this phrase? >>
I interpret it as, "Pay full retail now and hold for enough years that hopefully tomorrow's wholesale buyback price exceeds today's full retail."
I also think there is a subtext that hopefully the collector is too dumb to realize that most of his capital gain from coins is actually due to inflation.
There is also a presumption, unwarranted in my opinion, that the best quality coins will always appreciate at a higher rate than all other coins.
I don't take investment advice from coin dealers and don't think anyone else should either. The "investment" examples in this report are ridiculous. If you think ten fold price appreciation since the late 1970s is anything to brag about, you know nothing about stock and bond market performance during the same period.
<< <i>
<< <i>"BUY THE BEST QUALITY YOU CAN AFFORD AND HOLD FOR THE LONG TERM"
How would some of you folks interpret this phrase? >>
I interpret it as, "Pay full retail now and hold for enough years that hopefully tomorrow's wholesale buyback price exceeds today's full retail."
I also think there is a subtext that hopefully the collector is too dumb to realize that most of his capital gain from coins is actually due to inflation.
There is also a presumption, unwarranted in my opinion, that the best quality coins will always appreciate at a higher rate than all other coins.
I don't take investment advice from coin dealers and don't think anyone else should either. The "investment" examples in this report are ridiculous. If you think ten fold price appreciation since the late 1970s is anything to brag about, you know nothing about stock and bond market performance during the same period. >>
Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell!
As far as best quality you can afford, she has stated over and over that she's discussing the best quality for the grade of choice.
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value.
From my experiences going all the way back to the 70's that statement definitely holds true. Way before beautifully toned Morgan dollars and heavy cameo super deep DMPL dollars became popular, I would always try to choose the absolute best coins I could find and many times had to pay a big premium over average coins to buy them. There were times I later thought I was crazy for paying so much for some coins that I felt were much nicer than the norm and that I'd be buried in them for life as far as resale goes. It turned out that every coin I felt I "way overpaid" for were some of my best long term performers because others also recognized the quality and I got that premium back and then some. I feel that "buy the best...." statement holds true even more today than it did years ago, and many of today's auction prices realized for clearly superior or highly eye appealing coins for their grade back that statement up.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value. >>
Conversely, the investor could have bought WWPSS bonds and have nothing...
If you're gonna cherry pick the bond period, then I'm gonna cherry pick the coin. Garrett's 1848 seated dollar has done quite well over that time period. I'd pay $350k if I could buy it back
(ps - the peak 30 year rate of 15.3% was a year after the Garrett sale)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value. >>
Conversely, the investor could have bought WWPSS bonds and have nothing...
If you're gonna cherry pick the bond period, then I'm gonna cherry pick the coin. Garrett's 1848 seated dollar has done quite well over that time period. I'd pay $350k if I could buy it back
(ps - the peak 30 year rate of 15.3% was a year after the Garrett sale) >>
Laura is the one who selected the period, not me. Furthermore, astute bond investors typically would hold a diversified portfolio of bonds that could not be wiped out by a single default.
I have enjoyed rare coins for the last 40 years. Unfortunately, rare coins have been a poor buy-and-hold investment for the last 30 or more years. You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Right now, I'd rather own hard assets than government bonds; however, paying top dollar to Legend and waiting for a greater fool to buy me out is not my idea of a good investment in hard assets. Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. They are not qualified to give investment advice and never will be.
Laura is the one who selected the period, not me. Furthermore, astute bond investors typically would hold a diversified portfolio of bonds that could not be wiped out by a single default.
I have enjoyed rare coins for the last 40 years. Unfortunately, rare coins have been a poor buy-and-hold investment for the last 30 or more years. You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Right now, I'd rather own hard assets than government bonds; however, paying top dollar to Legend and waiting for a greater fool to buy me out is not my idea of a good investment in hard assets. Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. They are not qualified to give investment advice and never will be. >>
The last paragraph you've written is the best advice many could use as a means to avoid the trap of 'the investment" angle given by highly self-promoting dealers like Laura and others.
As far as qualifications, I have yet to find anyone that is as capable as chance.
Miles
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value. >>
Conversely, the investor could have bought WWPSS bonds and have nothing...
If you're gonna cherry pick the bond period, then I'm gonna cherry pick the coin. Garrett's 1848 seated dollar has done quite well over that time period. I'd pay $350k if I could buy it back
(ps - the peak 30 year rate of 15.3% was a year after the Garrett sale) >>
Laura is the one who selected the period, not me. Furthermore, astute bond investors typically would hold a diversified portfolio of bonds that could not be wiped out by a single default.
I have enjoyed rare coins for the last 40 years. Unfortunately, rare coins have been a poor buy-and-hold investment for the last 30 or more years. You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Right now, I'd rather own hard assets than government bonds; however, paying top dollar to Legend and waiting for a greater fool to buy me out is not my idea of a good investment in hard assets. Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. They are not qualified to give investment advice and never will be. >>
While I agee with you that taking investment advice from coin dealers is not something for the general public to do, I will disagree with you that coins cannot be a good investment. Historically, the right coins have equaled or exceeded the stock market in general. I, personally, earned in excess of $10M in profits from coin collecting the past decade or so.
And I take offense to your statement regarding 'waiting for the greater fool to buy you out'. Just because your preference lies elsewhere does not make a customer of Legend's a fool. In fact, most of Legend's customers have significant profits tied up in their collections....whereas the stock and bond markets the past decade have generated next to nothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value. >>
Conversely, the investor could have bought WWPSS bonds and have nothing...
If you're gonna cherry pick the bond period, then I'm gonna cherry pick the coin. Garrett's 1848 seated dollar has done quite well over that time period. I'd pay $350k if I could buy it back
(ps - the peak 30 year rate of 15.3% was a year after the Garrett sale) >>
Laura is the one who selected the period, not me. Furthermore, astute bond investors typically would hold a diversified portfolio of bonds that could not be wiped out by a single default.
I have enjoyed rare coins for the last 40 years. Unfortunately, rare coins have been a poor buy-and-hold investment for the last 30 or more years. You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Right now, I'd rather own hard assets than government bonds; however, paying top dollar to Legend and waiting for a greater fool to buy me out is not my idea of a good investment in hard assets. Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. They are not qualified to give investment advice and never will be. >>
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Bayard1908 here. Wise words and worth keeping in mind. For me, coins are an enjoyable hobby, but I do not try and collect at the level of investing for my future. As TomB puts it, I collect with discretionary funds that I can afford to lose (but hopefully I won't lose too badly.) Generally, inflation has been the cause of most of my profits in rare coins.
I am mystified how you can make this statement. Kindly back it up with some proof.
You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Ditto to the above.
While my collecting interests have changed over the years, the fact is that I still have my trade dollar set first starting in 1996 and the other fact is that I'd have done better just holding the coins that I purchased along the way than selling them and starting a different collection.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond market performance since the late 70s? Do tell! >>
The total return from the bond market has exceeded that of the stock market during this period. An investor could lock in 18% returns for 30 years if he bought bonds back then. Conversely, that same investor could have "stepped up" at the Garrett sale, and he'd still be underwater.
Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. Coin dealers are not qualified to give investment advice. I doubt most of them could even calculate present value. >>
Conversely, the investor could have bought WWPSS bonds and have nothing...
If you're gonna cherry pick the bond period, then I'm gonna cherry pick the coin. Garrett's 1848 seated dollar has done quite well over that time period. I'd pay $350k if I could buy it back
(ps - the peak 30 year rate of 15.3% was a year after the Garrett sale) >>
Laura is the one who selected the period, not me. Furthermore, astute bond investors typically would hold a diversified portfolio of bonds that could not be wiped out by a single default.
I have enjoyed rare coins for the last 40 years. Unfortunately, rare coins have been a poor buy-and-hold investment for the last 30 or more years. You don't even buy and hold yourself, yet that is exactly what your partner Laura is advising everyone to do.
Right now, I'd rather own hard assets than government bonds; however, paying top dollar to Legend and waiting for a greater fool to buy me out is not my idea of a good investment in hard assets. Do not take investment advice from coin dealers. They are not qualified to give investment advice and never will be. >>
While I agee with you that taking investment advice from coin dealers is not something for the general public to do, I will disagree with you that coins cannot be a good investment. Historically, the right coins have equaled or exceeded the stock market in general. I, personally, earned in excess of $10M in profits from coin collecting the past decade or so.
And I take offense to your statement regarding 'waiting for the greater fool to buy you out'. Just because your preference lies elsewhere does not make a customer of Legend's a fool. In fact, most of Legend's customers have significant profits tied up in their collections....whereas the stock and bond markets the past decade have generated next to nothing. >>
Like a little stock called Apple, TDN? Heck, if we're gonna pick and choose....
Bully for you earning 10 m in profits in the past decade or so. Most folks, me included, won't see 10 million in 10 lifetimes. The point being, for extraordinary profits such as those to be realized, generally you have to be pretty darned well off in the first place, to play. It's probably always been this way. The Garrett family, Virgil Brand, Eliasberg -- all very wealthy or extremely well-connected. It's mind boggling to think of Brand's hoard -- so many coins that admidst multiple rarities, he knew a few were counterfeit -- but didn't particularly care.
So you are the exception to the rule -- as are probably those who loaded up on Apple when it was extremely out of favor, and have been sitting pretty til now. Apples to apples. For the vast majority of collectors, they ain't gonna see 10 million in profits in 10 lifetimes, and they all would be well advised to listen carefully to Bayard1908's advice.
Cherry picking individual coins and individual stocks is irrelevant. Fact is the Dow is essentially unchanged over the past decade while the top end of the coin market is up by multiples. Besides - if you can't afford Legend's coins then you can't afford to buy APPL anyway.
<< <i>Besides - if you can't afford Legend's coins then you can't afford to buy APPL anyway.
I'm pretty sure everyone can afford
APPL, obviously you meant AAPL.
Being a coin dealer I can't answer this but maybe some of the real investment people here can. If you are selling things as investments stating that they are investments, don't you need to be liscenced? Maybe I am wrong but I thought you need to pass certain tests and give certain disclosures if you are selling investments not calling them collectables.