<< <i>I laud the effort, but I fear it is a losing battle. >>
I think they will dig their heels in on this, even with a signed affidavit. But that said, this would be terrible publicity for eBay/PayPal if it went even semi-viral in the seller community. I think most eBay sellers already know the odds are stacked heavily in favor of the buyers, and this would show sellers that one of the few protections they have remaining rings hollow. I suppose eBay could suspend the account if someone raises a ruckus over this, but that would be even more bad PR and make them look petty and spiteful. And since the truth is an absolute defense against libel, they would have *zero* legal recourse against someone challenging them this way.
The bottom line is that eBay is too big for their britches and need to be taken down a notch. Unfortunately, most of the time, the amount of effort plus eBay's "natural monopoly" status discourage people from raging against the machine. But IMO, more people need to.
Im very happy that this hobby has a new front: Great Collections, members selling here or ATS, Craigslist, various websites and auction sites. Hopefully they will take a big stake out of ebays profits on coins
Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>I laud the effort, but I fear it is a losing battle. >>
Agreed.
#1. You didn't follow their rules. #2. They only use verification available online. >>
Agree with the above. eBay spells out their rules and policy very clearly so I don't understand why some here feel the need to unjustly trash them. That said, I hope Greenie gets his money or coin back. I get the feeling that when the postal inspectors and police start questioning the buyer the coin will mysteriously turn up.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Agree with the above. eBay spells out their rules and policy very clearly so I don't understand why some here feel the need to unjustly trash them. That said, I hope Greenie gets his money or coin back. I get the feeling that when the postal inspectors and police start questioning the buyer the coin will mysteriously turn up. >>
I can see that, but eBay has been so fantastically biased toward always taking the buyer's word rather than the seller's, and at some point they should be called on that point.
In reality it shouldn't even have to go that far. Hopefully furnishing the postal clerk's signed statement -- along with the implied possibility for a charge of mail fraud -- will be enough to convince the buyer to come clean. But even in that case, it does shine more light on how badly eBay's practices are skewed in the favor of buyers, even unscrupulous ones who can claim "I didn't receive it" or "empty box" with few repercussions. It's one of several reasons I've stopped selling there almost completely.
<< <i>His next move is, "empty box" and you still lose. >>
No , it can't be ... how can he now say the box is empty if he didn't recieve a box ? The delivery confirmation tracking is going to say delivered so he can't turn around and say it arrived today.I think he's shot his bolt and has to go with it even if it is a losing proposition. >>
Paypal doesn't care what the buyer claims is my point. No signature on delivery/ no delivery confirmation = no Paypal seller's protection/warranty. >>
Ok , i was thinking there was delivery confirmation on the mail that's "missing". I'd forgotten since i left ebay the new rule about signature delivery on items over 500 or whatever it is. I think there's more people willing to commit this kind of fraud than people realise,i once sold a load of pre 64 dimes and offered free shipping to maximise any profit thinking without D/C i can just put a 1st class stamp on it.That auction run i had 3 buyers say they didnt recieve the item and til then i had never come across that using D/C.That same auction run i had a female buyer of strictly coins and over 500 positive feedback that won a gorgeous Silver florin from an old British colony and thinking it's a fellow collector and probably trustworthy i sent it D/C prior to payment , ususally i coins get paid pretty quickly and it would save me a 2nd trip to the P.O , i know she got the coin but she never paid and never once replied to any messages , i know the account was active because she was still making purchases a week later.Buyers know the rules and Lord help you if you let your guard down,i took the easy way out and left ebay,not because of those incidents but looking at the bigger picture i wasn't making as much as i could be using a different avenue.
Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay"
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable.
Agree with Perry Hall and RYK. Not meaning to beat on someone when they're down, but simply put, this problem doesn't happen if you use Sig Conf. We have decided to add it, on our nickel, to all shipments regardless of value parameters. Best of luck in your efforts to be made whole.
Would you come onto the POWERSELLER discussion board on Ebay and start a thread on this? It would be appreciated very much. We would 99.0% support your effort except for the "I told you so scolders --who can't wait to tell you --you screwed up''
I hope it works out for you but i would be surprised if you get a sworn statement of delivery from the postal employee. Something seems amiss here and i doubt the post office higher ups will let her send you a sworn statement.
If the P.O. gives you a sworn statement then they will find themselves in the middle of this mess. By stepping into this they could put themselves into the fire along with expenses for time off for dipositions, and other paperwork and lost production time.
I would be more interested in wether or not the PO has camera installed over the counter.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Streeter as soon as I have confirmation that the letter was sent I certainly will post. I am a power seller so I can probably post there.
Annie, we are dealing with a rural BUFU post office so I believe that they have plenty of down time. I think the lady I spoke to was the branch manager
I understand eBay's rules for SC over $250, but you pay a lot for insurance and a signature is required. IF you can get a copy of the signature from the PO to send to Paypal, why is that that not proof enough? Just do not get this at all and hope you can get enough evidence to back up your proof of delivery to the scumbag.
<< <i>I understand eBay's rules for SC over $250, but you pay a lot for insurance and a signature is required. IF you can get a copy of the signature from the PO to send to Paypal, why is that that not proof enough? >>
Because, according to their rules, it just isn't. Why isn't an eBay feedback from a buyer that the item was received not good enough to prove to PayPal that the item was received? Same reason.
edited to add... just to be clear, here- eBay was around before PayPal and if PayPal disappeared tomorrow, eBay would still be there. PayPal owes its existence to the fees sellers pay and (IMO) should be bending over backwards to support those sellers, not treating them like they're crooks unless they jump through whatever hoops PayPal decides on.
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
You might have good reason to feel the way you do but I can say from MY experience that their policies are not "fantastically biased against sellers." I bought a $30 jewelry piece but received only the Paypal priority mail label inside a bag from USPS that said the label was separated from the package. The seller used 1/2 inch wide scotch tape along the edges of the label and it peeled off somewhere in transit. I refused the label in the bag at my local post office so delivery confirmation showed delivery to me, refusal, and return to the sender. Rather than offer me something, the seller said she wanted to let ebay settle things. So I filed a claim. I was ruled against without being asked for any information whatsoever. I appealed, noted the delivery confirmation of the return, and offered pictures I took of the label sans box. But no, I was given no explanation and simply told that the original ruling was correct and that the second decision was absolutely final.
No doubt a buyer gets screwed by PayPal on occasion. I would be willing to bet more sellers get screwed, however. And there's no reason (aside from PayPal not wanting to go to the trouble of actually doing an investigation because it would cost them money to do it) for either of these outcomes (screwed buyer or seller).
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
You might have good reason to feel the way you do but I can say from MY experience that their policies are not "fantastically biased against sellers." I bought a $30 jewelry piece but received only the Paypal priority mail label inside a bag from USPS that said the label was separated from the package. The seller used 1/2 inch wide scotch tape along the edges of the label and it peeled off somewhere in transit. I refused the label in the bag at my local post office so delivery confirmation showed delivery to me, refusal, and return to the sender. Rather than offer me something, the seller said she wanted to let ebay settle things. So I filed a claim. I was ruled against without being asked for any information whatsoever. I appealed, noted the delivery confirmation of the return, and offered pictures I took of the label sans box. But no, I was given no explanation and simply told that the original ruling was correct and that the second decision was absolutely final. >>
What kind of feedback did you leave?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Negative feedback left, stated I received only the label, refused it at the PO, and no refund received. My credit card company ate the $30 since that's less than what it would have cost them to investigate.
Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up.
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Excellent! Congratulations.
Now, OUT HIM!
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Bravo! But what I want to know is, did the P.D. tell you what happened when they called Mr. Fraud?
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers. The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards. It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
Ebay and paypal policies are no longer seller hostile when it comes to disputes. Follow the rules and they protect you. OTOH, their high fees and listing rules, bullion category that doesn't pay ebay bucks, and other minor items, are all seller hostile to coin sellers. --jerry
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Their policies are just that, policies and not the law. I suspect they try to discourage you/one from challenging, but they also know that in a court of law that they'd lose. GOOD JOB.
"do not sell in a way where you will lose money" <<< how is that done ? after ebay and paypal fees, and ebay's bite out of any shipping charges, then the ding you will get if you charge anything for shipping which raises your fee level... the shipping costs are only reasonable if they are free. i dont believe it is possible to sell on ebay without losing money, and for further amusement, check the best offer box.
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
<< <i>"do not sell in a way where you will lose money" <<< how is that done ? after ebay and paypal fees, and ebay's bite out of any shipping charges, then the ding you will get if you charge anything for shipping which raises your fee level... the shipping costs are only reasonable if they are free. i dont believe it is possible to sell on ebay without losing money, and for further amusement, check the best offer box. >>
So true about the shipping! When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars.
<< <i>When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars. >>
List fixed price only, free shipping with the shipping charge built into the price and buyers can't give you a low rating on shipping. Problem solved.
<< <i>When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars. >>
List fixed price only, free shipping with the shipping charge built into the price and buyers can't give you a low rating on shipping. Problem solved. >>
Despite selling on Ebay for over ten years, with well over $100K in coins sold, 100% pos FB and all 5/5 DSRs except for shipping which is 4.8, I am still not a "Top Rated Seller" as I don't sell over 100 items/year.
Sometimes I do just as you say. Other times, in the case of a true auction I cant. For other items I have to go with the going rates and the difference in a buyer's head between $199 + $6 shipping vs. $205 BIN may mean that the former will sell that the latter not.
Thus, sometimes I charge for shipping.
Unlike years past when one only needed to sell 30 items/year but needed a higher $ sales total to be a PowerSeller, I now get no discounts at all. Thus, I could care less about the 4s on shipping.
My only point was how absurd it is to get 4/5 for shipping when the shipping charge is only 50-66% of the actual shipping cost. Yet again, Ebay has created an absurd expectation of free shipping. Being that it's not free to ship items this is just nuts.
If course, Ebay has not competition so they can do as they please.
<< <i>Unlike years past when one only needed to sell 30 items/year but needed a higher $ sales total to be a PowerSeller, I now get no discounts at all. Thus, I could care less about the 4s on shipping. >>
Didn't know that. Looks like you can do it however you like then and it won't matter.
<< <i>My only point was how absurd it is to get 4/5 for shipping when the shipping charge is only 50-66% of the actual shipping cost. >>
Unfortunately, that's the world we live in- far too many people want stuff but expect somebody else to pay for it.
<< <i>Yet again, Ebay has created an absurd expectation of free shipping. >>
Yes, they have.
<< <i>Being that it's not free to ship items this is just nuts. >>
Comments
<< <i>I laud the effort, but I fear it is a losing battle. >>
I think they will dig their heels in on this, even with a signed affidavit. But that said, this would be terrible publicity for eBay/PayPal if it went even semi-viral in the seller community. I think most eBay sellers already know the odds are stacked heavily in favor of the buyers, and this would show sellers that one of the few protections they have remaining rings hollow. I suppose eBay could suspend the account if someone raises a ruckus over this, but that would be even more bad PR and make them look petty and spiteful. And since the truth is an absolute defense against libel, they would have *zero* legal recourse against someone challenging them this way.
The bottom line is that eBay is too big for their britches and need to be taken down a notch. Unfortunately, most of the time, the amount of effort plus eBay's "natural monopoly" status discourage people from raging against the machine. But IMO, more people need to.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>I laud the effort, but I fear it is a losing battle. >>
Agreed.
#1. You didn't follow their rules.
#2. They only use verification available online.
<< <i>
<< <i>I laud the effort, but I fear it is a losing battle. >>
Agreed.
#1. You didn't follow their rules.
#2. They only use verification available online. >>
Agree with the above. eBay spells out their rules and policy very clearly so I don't understand why some here feel the need to unjustly trash them. That said, I hope Greenie gets his money or coin back. I get the feeling that when the postal inspectors and police start questioning the buyer the coin will mysteriously turn up.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Agree with the above. eBay spells out their rules and policy very clearly so I don't understand why some here feel the need to unjustly trash them. That said, I hope Greenie gets his money or coin back. I get the feeling that when the postal inspectors and police start questioning the buyer the coin will mysteriously turn up. >>
I can see that, but eBay has been so fantastically biased toward always taking the buyer's word rather than the seller's, and at some point they should be called on that point.
In reality it shouldn't even have to go that far. Hopefully furnishing the postal clerk's signed statement -- along with the implied possibility for a charge of mail fraud -- will be enough to convince the buyer to come clean. But even in that case, it does shine more light on how badly eBay's practices are skewed in the favor of buyers, even unscrupulous ones who can claim "I didn't receive it" or "empty box" with few repercussions. It's one of several reasons I've stopped selling there almost completely.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>His next move is, "empty box" and you still lose. >>
No , it can't be ... how can he now say the box is empty if he didn't recieve a box ? The delivery confirmation tracking is going to say delivered so he can't turn around and say it arrived today.I think he's shot his bolt and has to go with it even if it is a losing proposition. >>
Paypal doesn't care what the buyer claims is my point.
No signature on delivery/ no delivery confirmation = no Paypal seller's protection/warranty. >>
Ok , i was thinking there was delivery confirmation on the mail that's "missing". I'd forgotten since i left ebay the new rule about signature delivery on items over 500 or whatever it is.
I think there's more people willing to commit this kind of fraud than people realise,i once sold a load of pre 64 dimes and offered free shipping to maximise any profit thinking without D/C i can just put a 1st class stamp on it.That auction run i had 3 buyers say they didnt recieve the item and til then i had never come across that using D/C.That same auction run i had a female buyer of strictly coins and over 500 positive feedback that won a gorgeous Silver florin from an old British colony and thinking it's a fellow collector and probably trustworthy i sent it D/C prior to payment , ususally i coins get paid pretty quickly and it would save me a 2nd trip to the P.O , i know she got the coin but she never paid and never once replied to any messages , i know the account was active because she was still making purchases a week later.Buyers know the rules and Lord help you if you let your guard down,i took the easy way out and left ebay,not because of those incidents but looking at the bigger picture i wasn't making as much as i could be using a different avenue.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay"
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Would you come onto the POWERSELLER discussion board on Ebay and start a thread on this? It would be appreciated very much. We would 99.0% support your effort except for the "I told you so scolders --who can't wait to tell you --you screwed up''
thanks
If the P.O. gives you a sworn statement then they will find themselves in the middle of this mess. By stepping into this they could put themselves into the fire along with expenses for time off for dipositions, and other paperwork and lost production time.
I would be more interested in wether or not the PO has camera installed over the counter.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Annie, we are dealing with a rural BUFU post office so I believe that they have plenty of down time. I think the lady I spoke to was the branch manager
<< <i>I understand eBay's rules for SC over $250, but you pay a lot for insurance and a signature is required. IF you can get a copy of the signature from the PO to send to Paypal, why is that that not proof enough? >>
Because, according to their rules, it just isn't. Why isn't an eBay feedback from a buyer that the item was received not good enough to prove to PayPal that the item was received? Same reason.
edited to add... just to be clear, here- eBay was around before PayPal and if PayPal disappeared tomorrow, eBay would still be there. PayPal owes its existence to the fees sellers pay and (IMO) should be bending over backwards to support those sellers, not treating them like they're crooks unless they jump through whatever hoops PayPal decides on.
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
You might have good reason to feel the way you do but I can say from MY experience that their policies are not "fantastically biased against sellers." I bought a $30 jewelry piece but received only the Paypal priority mail label inside a bag from USPS that said the label was separated from the package. The seller used 1/2 inch wide scotch tape along the edges of the label and it peeled off somewhere in transit. I refused the label in the bag at my local post office so delivery confirmation showed delivery to me, refusal, and return to the sender. Rather than offer me something, the seller said she wanted to let ebay settle things. So I filed a claim. I was ruled against without being asked for any information whatsoever. I appealed, noted the delivery confirmation of the return, and offered pictures I took of the label sans box. But no, I was given no explanation and simply told that the original ruling was correct and that the second decision was absolutely final.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers.
The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards.
It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
You might have good reason to feel the way you do but I can say from MY experience that their policies are not "fantastically biased against sellers." I bought a $30 jewelry piece but received only the Paypal priority mail label inside a bag from USPS that said the label was separated from the package. The seller used 1/2 inch wide scotch tape along the edges of the label and it peeled off somewhere in transit. I refused the label in the bag at my local post office so delivery confirmation showed delivery to me, refusal, and return to the sender. Rather than offer me something, the seller said she wanted to let ebay settle things. So I filed a claim. I was ruled against without being asked for any information whatsoever. I appealed, noted the delivery confirmation of the return, and offered pictures I took of the label sans box. But no, I was given no explanation and simply told that the original ruling was correct and that the second decision was absolutely final. >>
What kind of feedback did you leave?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Excellent! Congratulations.
Now, OUT HIM!
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Bravo! But what I want to know is, did the P.D. tell you what happened when they called Mr. Fraud?
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
congratz
that is a name i'd love to add to my questionable ebay people listing :-)
.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember, too, that ebay is not the villain--the guy who lied that he had not received the coin is. Ebay has carefully crafted the rules to minimize their liability and hassle in the marketplace that they provide. The liability and hassle has been offloaded to the buyers and sellers. The title really should be something like--"Fighting back vs. scumbag buyer on ebay" >>
I agree according to the letter of the law. But I do think eBay's seller-hostile policies are enabling "scumabg buyers" to do this sort of thing. The seller has the complete burden of proof on almost anything and if they only have 90% of the proof they need, eBay will shaft them. If a buyer has *no* proof, eBay will still always rule in their favor absent absolute proof to the contrary that meets their standards. It's like a seller is "guilty until proven innocent" and a buyer is "right until proven wrong by our standards." I agree that the OP failed to meet eBay's full requirements for seller protection... but I'd also say that these requirements are fantastically biased against sellers. That much deserves to be noted, even if it is the "scumbag buyer" in the end who needs to be held accountable. >>
Ebay and paypal policies are no longer seller hostile when it comes to disputes. Follow the rules and they protect you. OTOH, their high fees and listing rules, bullion category that doesn't pay ebay bucks, and other minor items, are all seller hostile to coin sellers. --jerry
<< <i>Yesterday I spoke to the local PD and they said they would actually call the guy and see what's up. Also the lady from the post office faxed in the letter. This morning I get an email from eBay "Your appeal has been accepted, a Paypal payment is on the way." I have a credit in our account for the full amount. I am thankful that eBay corrected a situation that should have never come up. >>
Their policies are just that, policies and not the law. I suspect they try to discourage you/one from challenging, but they also know that in a court of law that they'd lose. GOOD JOB.
Please out this *^** for us so that we can be spared the trouble.
So happy for u!
also: out! out! out!
The good guys won.
BHNC #203
<< <i>"do not sell in a way where you will lose money" <<< how is that done ? after ebay and paypal fees, and ebay's bite out of any shipping charges, then the ding you will get if you charge anything for shipping which raises your fee level... the shipping costs are only reasonable if they are free. i dont believe it is possible to sell on ebay without losing money, and for further amusement, check the best offer box. >>
So true about the shipping! When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Great thread. It's nice to see the good guys win once in awhile! Thanks for sharing your travails and for your hard work.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
<< <i>When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars. >>
List fixed price only, free shipping with the shipping charge built into the price and buyers can't give you a low rating on shipping. Problem solved.
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<< <i>When I do charge shipping its always significantly less than the actual cost. Despite that 4 stars is the norm. So, leas than cost is only good for 4 stars. >>
List fixed price only, free shipping with the shipping charge built into the price and buyers can't give you a low rating on shipping. Problem solved.
Despite selling on Ebay for over ten years, with well over $100K in coins sold, 100% pos FB and all 5/5 DSRs except for shipping which is 4.8, I am still not a "Top Rated Seller" as I don't sell over 100 items/year.
Sometimes I do just as you say. Other times, in the case of a true auction I cant. For other items I have to go with the going rates and the difference in a buyer's head between $199 + $6 shipping vs. $205 BIN may mean that the former will sell that the latter not.
Thus, sometimes I charge for shipping.
Unlike years past when one only needed to sell 30 items/year but needed a higher $ sales total to be a PowerSeller, I now get no discounts at all. Thus, I could care less about the 4s on shipping.
My only point was how absurd it is to get 4/5 for shipping when the shipping charge is only 50-66% of the actual shipping cost. Yet again, Ebay has created an absurd expectation of free shipping. Being that it's not free to ship items this is just nuts.
If course, Ebay has not competition so they can do as they please.
<< <i>Unlike years past when one only needed to sell 30 items/year but needed a higher $ sales total to be a PowerSeller, I now get no discounts at all. Thus, I could care less about the 4s on shipping. >>
Didn't know that. Looks like you can do it however you like then and it won't matter.
<< <i>My only point was how absurd it is to get 4/5 for shipping when the shipping charge is only 50-66% of the actual shipping cost. >>
Unfortunately, that's the world we live in- far too many people want stuff but expect somebody else to pay for it.
<< <i>Yet again, Ebay has created an absurd expectation of free shipping. >>
Yes, they have.
<< <i>Being that it's not free to ship items this is just nuts. >>
I won't disagree.