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Opinions- Raw 1879-S Morgan dollar - COUNTERFEIT, maybe

What say you?

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Comments

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    XF and should grade just fine.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Found some other images that I took over a year ago. My camera setup has changed too many times. Need to get things straightened out again. I like the old images better.

    I'll add a few more close-ups in a few minutes.


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  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice die crack on that seven and an overdate, too?

    What VAM is this?

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com


  • << <i>What VAM is this? >>



    If I tell you, my silly game will be over. image


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  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    Over Polished reverse I think.

    I'm leaning to 62, but I'm not sure.
  • Wow Jack. The reverse does look like VAM 62, especially the mint mark and bow area.

    I was told it's a VAM 45. Privately made. Counterfeit.

  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    Fooled me. I'm floored, that's a high quality piece. Leroy called it VAM-45 I'd assume? Maybe VAM-62 was the source coin.
  • Brian identified it. Maybe I'll send it off to Leroy for another look. I need the new 1878-S guide anyway.


    VAMworld thread
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting coin, the wreath is what made me want to call it a fake although I can see where Wolf is going with the overpolished reverse die.
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    I can't recall a counterfeit with polishing lines. The cast counterfeits just aren't that good to pick up that kind of detail.

    I've looked at it now 4 times. While it might be indeed a VAM-45, Leroy should see it.
  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭
    The thing I noticed was the reverse lettering seemed very uneven and weak in some points for the wear with so much rim left. That made me think counterfeit right away.
    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Scary if this is a fake
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • Coin was sent to Leroy Van Allen. Came back yesterday. It is the new VAM 45A.
    VAM 45 and 45A are not counterfeit. They have over polished and "acid treated" dies.
    The discovery coin for VAM 45 was originally identified as a "privately made" coin. It was changed "in May 2011 to have acid treated leaves instead of being a counterfeit. Die variety VAM 45 is genuine and not counterfeit."
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It must have been He** to work in a Mint back in the 1800's and early 1900's. Can you
    imagine? Acids, molten metal, cutting machines, stamping machines, milling tools and
    machines. And many of the workers wore dresses!

    Well, now get it graded!

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Congrat's on the new discovery coin.
    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice coin! The acid treated dies, for those not into VAMs, are seen on a handful of 1878-S and 1879-S reverse dies (and maybe one 1878-S or 79-S obverse?). The mint experimented with various ways of restoring or strengthening design elements that were polished away, including using acid to "blend in" the overpolished areas. Usually, these areas are the central parts of the eagle's wings and the space between the eagle's right (viewer's left) wing and the leg. The results, as seen on coins like this one, and 1878-S VAMs 36, 50, 76, 81, look like blotchy splashes of metal on the design. Whether this was more effective than hand-engraving the missing detail (1878-S VAM 18 is a good example) is debatable, but the result is we have come cool coins today because of it.

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