Opinions- Raw 1879-S Morgan dollar - COUNTERFEIT, maybe

nesvt

What say you?

AUandAG

XF and should grade just fine.

bob

nesvt

Found some other images that I took over a year ago. My camera setup has changed too many times. Need to get things straightened out again. I like the old images better.

I'll add a few more close-ups in a few minutes.

AUandAG

Nice die crack on that seven and an overdate, too?

What VAM is this?

bob

nesvt

<< <i>What VAM is this? >>



If I tell you, my silly game will be over.

Wolf359

Over Polished reverse I think.

I'm leaning to 62, but I'm not sure.

nesvt

Wow Jack. The reverse does look like VAM 62, especially the mint mark and bow area.

I was told it's a VAM 45. Privately made. Counterfeit.

Wolf359

Fooled me. I'm floored, that's a high quality piece. Leroy called it VAM-45 I'd assume? Maybe VAM-62 was the source coin.

nesvt

Brian identified it. Maybe I'll send it off to Leroy for another look. I need the new 1878-S guide anyway.


VAMworld thread

stealer

Very interesting coin, the wreath is what made me want to call it a fake although I can see where Wolf is going with the overpolished reverse die.

Wolf359

I can't recall a counterfeit with polishing lines. The cast counterfeits just aren't that good to pick up that kind of detail.

I've looked at it now 4 times. While it might be indeed a VAM-45, Leroy should see it.

michiganboy

The thing I noticed was the reverse lettering seemed very uneven and weak in some points for the wear with so much rim left. That made me think counterfeit right away.

mkman123

Scary if this is a fake

nesvt

Coin was sent to Leroy Van Allen. Came back yesterday. It is the new VAM 45A.
VAM 45 and 45A are not counterfeit. They have over polished and "acid treated" dies.
The discovery coin for VAM 45 was originally identified as a "privately made" coin. It was changed "in May 2011 to have acid treated leaves instead of being a counterfeit. Die variety VAM 45 is genuine and not counterfeit."

AUandAG

It must have been He** to work in a Mint back in the 1800's and early 1900's. Can you
imagine? Acids, molten metal, cutting machines, stamping machines, milling tools and
machines. And many of the workers wore dresses!

Well, now get it graded!

bob

CoinCrazyPA

Congrat's on the new discovery coin.

messydesk

Nice coin! The acid treated dies, for those not into VAMs, are seen on a handful of 1878-S and 1879-S reverse dies (and maybe one 1878-S or 79-S obverse?). The mint experimented with various ways of restoring or strengthening design elements that were polished away, including using acid to "blend in" the overpolished areas. Usually, these areas are the central parts of the eagle's wings and the space between the eagle's right (viewer's left) wing and the leg. The results, as seen on coins like this one, and 1878-S VAMs 36, 50, 76, 81, look like blotchy splashes of metal on the design. Whether this was more effective than hand-engraving the missing detail (1878-S VAM 18 is a good example) is debatable, but the result is we have come cool coins today because of it.