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Zerohedge: Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar found in Manhattan Jewelry District

It is one thing for tungsten-filled gold bars to appear in the UK, or in Germany: after all out of sight, and across the Atlantic, certainly must mean out of mind, and out of the safe.

However, when a 10 ounce 999.9 gold bar bearing the stamp of the reputable Swiss Produits Artistiques Métaux Précieux (PAMP, with owner MTP) and a serial number (serial #038892, likely rehypothecated in at least 10 gold ETFs across the world but that's a different story), mysteriously emerges in the heart of the world's jewerly district located on 47th street in Manhattan, things get real quick.

Moments ago, Myfoxny reported that a 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit.

The discovery was made by the dealer Ibrahim Fadl, who bought the PAMP bar in question from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. "But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold. The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce."

read more (and photo evidence)
CONTINUED HERE



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Comments

  • Looks like the week ahead may be more interesting than previously thought.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gut tells me Tuesday-Wednesday will be particularly intersting.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Think they used a big enough drill bit?

    Perhaps a 1/16 bit would have worked just as well, and been easier to deal with on the real ones..
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Time to get the FBI involved before this sort of fraud gets out of hand.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Would a drill bit even scratch a piece of tungsten? I thought it was extremely hard?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Would a drill bit even scratch a piece of tungsten? I thought it was extremely hard? >>



    There's a similar thread in the coin forum where it is speculated that powdered tungsten with some kind of binder may have been used.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Would a drill bit even scratch a piece of tungsten? I thought it was extremely hard? >>



    There's a similar thread in the coin forum where it is speculated that powdered tungsten with some kind of binder may have been used. >>



    Coin Forum thread

    scroll down to Daniel Carr's explanation on how this bar was made. Very informative
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • I love this comment on the story:

    "I just tested my dollar bills, found out they were hollow and filled with shredded Obama healthcare documents."
    I was ‘COINB0Y' with 4812 posts and ‘Expert Collector’ ranking (Joined in 2006).
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting story, thanks !!!
    Timbuk3
  • chiefbobchiefbob Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭
    I get this free silver newsletter from Bix Weir. This particular one relates to the thread:

    ************************************************************************************************************************

    On 9/24/2012 12:53 PM, Bix Weir wrote:
    > The FAITH BUBBLE is bursting. This crosses the entire spectrum of the investing world as people are finally discovering that the world they live in is a false paradigm filled with con men and corruption.
    > The latest con is something that had been rumored for years and yet never really hit the mainstream media and that is tungsten filled gold bars. Last week it hit the mainstream with a MINIMUM of 10 bars found to be tungsten filled. Here's ZeroHedge.com's take:
    > *Gold Counterfeiting Goes Viral: 10 Tungsten-Filled Gold Bars Are Discovered In Manhattan*
    > http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-09-23/gold-counterfeiting-goes-viral-10-tungsten-filled-gold-bars-are-discovered-manhattan <http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=GX5D_&m=3XVQNgEHvVAZ85B&b=TeAJqpeWtc3MFlx9yuRvrA&gt;
    > What has not been talked about is what the ratio of fakes-to-real is. Yes, they found 10 problem bars but what they didn't say is how many bars were tested. Were 100 bars drilled and 10 fakes found? That would be 10% fake-to-real ratio in this batch of gold bars. Or maybe only 20 bars were tested and 10 were found to be fake making it a 50% fraud ratio! Maybe only 10 bars were tested and all 10 were fake!
    > We just don't know and THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
    > Now ask yourself this...HAVE YOU DRILLED YOUR GOLD/SILVER BARS?!
    > I guarantee you that 99.9% of you have not. Frightening reality.
    > But this is NOT new to subscribers to the Road to Roota. As a matter of fact, I was jumping up and down about this in March 2010! That gets me back to the importance of being EARLY in my future predictions rather than being LATE. Those who give time frames for the collapse in 2-5 years have been saying 2-5 years for over 10 years! They think it helps their credibility because they never right but never wrong. Ultimately they will be WRONG because they'll be saying 2-5 years until the day before the CRASH...then they will say I TOLD YOU SO!
    > Preparing yourself as if the crash is imminent will serve you much better than those taking your time thinking you have 2-5 years in perpetuity!
    > Back to my warning in March 2010...
    > Here's the article I posted:
    > *Fake Silver Moly-Bars?*
    > http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/212.cfm <http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/212.cfm?awt_l=GX5D_&awt_m=3XVQNgEHvVAZ85B&gt;
    > Read my conclusion carefully:
    >
    > "Let's face it, the only way to regain trust in the gold and silver markets will be to completely overhaul the entire physical testing and storage system."
    >
    > "Basically, we need a global remelt and re-certification."
    >
    > "As for us little guys...this kinda makes you wish you had paid the premium for those 1oz Gold and Silver Eagles and pre-1965 US coins...surely we can trust the US Government...can't we?"
    >
    > When this is all over those of us sitting with real, verifiable .999 gold and silver will be Kings of the World...
    >
    > *EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE JOKERS.*
    >
    > May the Road you choose be the Right Road.
    > Bix Weir
    > www.RoadtoRoota.com <http://www.roadtoroota.com?awt_l=GX5D_&awt_m=3XVQNgEHvVAZ85B&gt;
    > *Before you ask...YES. You should swap your gold and silver bars for small silver coins. Go to your local dealer or call Miles Franklin at 800-822-8080 and you can do it over the phone. Don't worry about the premium lost...you will make it up in the premium gained when trust in physical bars stops all together!
    >
    > PO Box 10626, Oakland, CA 94610, USA

    *******************************************************************************************************************************************

    Cheers!
    Bob
    Retired Air Force 1965-2000
    Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From ZeroHedge: Get your fake tungsten-filled gold coins here...

    Because the existence of counterfeit tungsten fake gold coin could have such a huge impact on the financial markets, there is a huge potential for deception and misinformation to be passed around. Be very careful about automatically believing any story you may hear. For your own protection, tungsten fake gold coin would be better to take physical possession of the smaller sizes of tungsten fake gold coins and now, and know that what you own genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin. [ZH: reread that sentence: "genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin"]

    Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.& Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten fake gold coin and other tungsten related products for more than two decades. We are a professional tungsten fake gold coin manufacturer. Our tungsten gold fake coin is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our tungsten fake gold coin and other fake gold coin products for any illegal purpose. We can provide all kinds of tungsten fake gold coin as your requirements.Our tungsten fake gold coin products are qualified.


    Please do not use our gold-plated tungsten alloy products for any illegal purpose. <--------------------------------------------------???????

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.


  • << <i>From ZeroHedge: Get your fake tungsten-filled gold coins here...

    Because the existence of counterfeit tungsten fake gold coin could have such a huge impact on the financial markets, there is a huge potential for deception and misinformation to be passed around. Be very careful about automatically believing any story you may hear. For your own protection, tungsten fake gold coin would be better to take physical possession of the smaller sizes of tungsten fake gold coins and now, and know that what you own genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin. [ZH: reread that sentence: "genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin"]

    Notice: Chinatungsten Online (Xiamen) Manu.& Sales Corp. is a very professional and serious company, specializing in manufacturing and selling tungsten fake gold coin and other tungsten related products for more than two decades. We are a professional tungsten fake gold coin manufacturer. Our tungsten gold fake coin is only for souvenir and decoration purpose. Here we declare: Please do not use our tungsten fake gold coin and other fake gold coin products for any illegal purpose. We can provide all kinds of tungsten fake gold coin as your requirements.Our tungsten fake gold coin products are qualified.


    Please do not use our gold-plated tungsten alloy products for any illegal purpose. <--------------------------------------------------??????? >>




    From ZeroHedge: "Picture of Tungsten fake gold products" image
    image
    The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure anyone even wants to know. I hope my Kuger is real. Be interesting if some were slabbed..
    Maybe be simplier to just add Tungsten to the Kitco charts.
    COA
  • "For your own protection, tungsten fake gold coin would be better to take physical possession of the smaller sizes of tungsten fake gold coins and now, and know that what you own genuine solid tungsten fake gold coin"

    That's an eyeopener , i'd really like to see some of these "smaller sizes"
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I saw the writing on the wall when I sold my Pamp 10 ounce gold bar a year ago.

    However, I'm not overly concerned with tungsten gold coins. You can certainly drill and fill a coin--magicians coins have been so altered for centuries. All the more reason to stick to 1/4 ounce gold american eagles. That's the conclusion most of us came to months and months ago. You'd need to use pretty sophisticated machining skills, and the payoff is insignificant versus a full ounce coin.

    When I first started stacking in earnest, I decided that I would never buy anything as bullion that I wouldn't be willing to chop in half with a table saw. Coins or bars, the same philosophy prevailed.

    I think that philosophy is a pretty good one, given these recent developments.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • I remember now it wasn't but 3 or so years ago a lot of fake maples were found in NJ , it certainly made local news but they didn't go into any detail of how they were faked.Would a tungston filled oz weigh slightly less than the real deal ? I'm wondering cos i'm thinking it might be an idea to check.
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