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What's your opinion about Franklin Mint coins?
Dennis88
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I'm not sure what to think of them....I'd like to pick up the lower mintage silver coins at melt if I can find them, but that's about it. I'm actually wondering if any of those coins have even been in the country they're (supposedly) from.
Dennis
Dennis
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<< <i>I'm actually wondering if any of those coins have even been in the country they're (supposedly) from. >>
No, it's unlikely they ever visited their supposed country. But, they did make some very interesting designs, and some of them are starting to make serious money in sales these days.
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<< <i>If you can buy the sets at melt, I think they will be a winner in the long run. Ive stached away quite a few(saved from melting) and still looking for more. >>
I have a Franklin Mint silver set up on the BST for not much over melt, take a look
I kinda like some of the Franklin Mint stuff. I picked up two small gold pieces from their Treasures of the Louvre set the other day as well.
They do have some very nice designs though.
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Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Even some of the gold uncs went out to banks, not just Central Banks and likely permanently lost (ie 1975 Jamaica matte $100).
These coins seem to be at least,if not more legit than US gold and silver eagles. Bet you might have problems finding a Belize unc $100 1983 at melt (=mintage 10)!
Well, just Love coins, period.
I just recently lucked into a small hoard of the nonsilver minor coins in a cheap bulk bag I bought. Obviously the dealers I bought the bulk lot from had been cracking out the silver coins for bullion, which left all the one- through twenty-five cent pieces, in the case of the Bahamas, which formed the bulk of this hoard. There were also some Jamaican and British Virgin Islands BU and proof coins in the lot.
Now, these might not be anything to blow trumpets about- they mostly catalog in the $1.00 to $2.00 range apiece- but remember, I got 'em in a bulk bag, so they only cost me seven to ten cents apiece. Hard to lose out on that kind of a deal! Plus they're lovely. A few got a tiny bit scuffed up being in that bag with all that other circ stuff, but not as bad as you might expect. And most came out quite nicely. I rescued them and put them in flips.
Several years ago I had a bunch of those intact sets, when bullion was cheap. Now I wish I'd kept them, of course.
Well, just Love coins, period.
No question that there are some very pretty/impressive issues over the years - and I admit that I even own a few - but do/have any FM products ever circulated ANYWHERE besides coin shows and, despite what is stamped on them, are they really coins? I was in a bookstore over the weekend and found it interesting that the 1900 & up Krause for ciruclating issues is about half the size of the 1900-1999 krause including NCLT. Glad my collecting parameters are generally much earlier so I don't deal with this much unless something catchs my eye and is cheap.
Guess its time to chase the kids off my lawn....
Of course a lot of it borders on "numismatic junk" but it's allgood quality. Most are gorgeous coins
and good packaging. Some of it really has been and is in circulation. It's true that most of it is too
high mintage for too small countries to ever get much premium but this is overlooking a few very im-
portant points. Things like this do trade at melt value so it is getting melted when it comes on the
market. Also for many years the high face value coins were being returned to the country of issue
for redemption. You could finance a long trip to the Caribbean with a pocketfull of gold coins bought
at half of face value. Silver wasn't immune. It is to be presumed that all these redeemed coins were
melted.
Sure, a Bahama silver set with a mintage of 15,000 is still common today but what will this mintage
look like in fifty years when the islands have a strong economy and only a few thousand survive. The
queen is on these so demand could be world wide. In the here and now there are plenty of great
FM coins and the list of great coins is destined to grow as the years go by. There are three things the
finest collectibles tend to share; they were originally high quality, they were widely availabele, and
they weren't valued.
The silver did not circulate, but some of the gold went to banks at least in Jamaica and I will cite the early matte unc. examples that started with mintages ~100-200 that then were sent out to LOCAL banks. As Cladking might say: "try finding one of them"!!!
Anyway, most were NCLTs similar to our own Eagle program of gold, silver, platinum or the FIVE OUNCE silver quarters struck by the US Mint which IMO totally trounce any Franklin Mint NCLT issues for not being legitimate coins.
Well, just Love coins, period.
FM is just one of many mints including our own US Mint to strike foreign coins. Doesn't mean the coins never reached the country they were "supposedly from." Many FM uncs saw more circulation than our own SBA and presidential dollars.
Those NCLTs that doubled the thickness of Krause are from countries like Poland, Isle of Man, China, and all those British commonwealths that mint NCLT every time the queen takes a dump ... There were many countries whose only coinage was FM for many years. Just because the proofs and proof-likes didn't circulate doesn't mean the uncs never saw daylight. Our own US Mint produces proof sets each year, but they don't circulate. Does that make them non-coins? Does that make them less collectible or re-saleable?
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<< <i>What's your opinion about Franklin Mint coins? >>
I started collecting in the early 1980s, right at the tail-end of the Franklin Mint mass-production frenzy- after they'd already killed the world coin market virtually single-handedly. For me, Franklin Mint coins will always stand for "cheaply made and overpriced". Having to go through an old gentleman's large collection of FM "products" a few years ago, that had been stored in a trunk here in tropical Queensland - the Franklin Mint packaging had degraded into a crumbly goo that thoroughly ruined the coins - has reinforced this attitude in my mind, though I have to admit my main complaint about the Franklin Mint is their shoddy packaging and over-the-top marketing, rather than any problem with their actual coins.
I've noticed the market in general seems to be more forgiving than me, with prices for certain FM coins going much higher than I'd pay for them. I suspect this is because the vast majority of FM coins have actually already been ruined by the packaging and undamaged examples are now very rare; the only "survivors" still in pristine condition are the ones whose original purchasers threw away the FM packaging straight away and housed the coins properly, in 2x2s or whatever.
<< <i>Many FM uncs saw more circulation than our own SBA and presidential dollars. >>
The difference being, the American mini-dollars were intended to circulate and struck in circulation quantity; it was the public that rejected using them.
I'm not aware of a single country that actually used FM coins in circulation. I've certainly never seen a heavily worn one. None of the mintages are high enough for a circulation coin release.
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I think the coins not cheaply made and quite good metal, good details, struck well, etc.
Also, I cited the example of the 1974 Belize (e.g. 1974 one cent 26k released NOT in packaging)....
I actually even have somewhere a 50c with a bit of wear. I think on release that these were immediately
identified by the design as NOT being Royal Mint issue and were set aside. As mentioned, please see the
current issues (most of them) of Papua New Guinea to see many reaching circulation even if not with
FM logo...
Well, just Love coins, period.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>What's your opinion about Franklin Mint coins? >>
I started collecting in the early 1980s, right at the tail-end of the Franklin Mint mass-production frenzy- after they'd already killed the world coin market virtually single-handedly. For me, Franklin Mint coins will always stand for "cheaply made and overpriced". Having to go through an old gentleman's large collection of FM "products" a few years ago, that had been stored in a trunk here in tropical Queensland - the Franklin Mint packaging had degraded into a crumbly goo that thoroughly ruined the coins - has reinforced this attitude in my mind, though I have to admit my main complaint about the Franklin Mint is their shoddy packaging and over-the-top marketing, rather than any problem with their actual coins. >>
The coins were sent out in a plastic or a plastic and paper sleeve and so far as I know these are
all very stable for long term storage. However, if the coins were removed from these and placed in
the fancy boxes that came with them then the coins willbe ruined in many cases. Some countries
have a felt looking lining that quickly disintegrates but others are stable.
The vast majority of sets I see are still in the sleeves where the coins are relatively safe.
Perhaps my saying the packaging was good was pretty misleading since any coins placed in the
boxes will be destroyed except for a few countries like Panama and BVI which are more stable. Even
these though might be pretty hard on delicate proof surfaces in a humid enviroment.
I certainly agree their sales tactics back in the day went too far. While they were generally "tasteful"
they were prone to suggesting these would make the buyer quite wealthy and the majority lost 75%
of their purchase price before the markets turned around. I certainly never bought any of these from
the issuer because they were overpriced and overproduced. In the long run though it is this overpro-
duction that will prove an asset. The coins are widely known and the attrition is huge.
<< <i>I'm not aware of a single country that actually used FM coins in circulation. I've certainly never seen a heavily worn one. >>
Go on eBay and in five minutes you will find worn XF and AU examples.
<< <i>None of the mintages are high enough for a circulation coin release. >>
You obviously haven't factored the populations of these countries or their small budgets. They are smaller than some US states and therefore have much smaller mintages, which is one reason they are collected. If you believe value is found in high-mintage coins then by all means stick to US issues
<< <i>... the Franklin Mint mass-production frenzy- after they'd already killed the world coin market virtually single-handedly. >>
You are dead-wrong here, sorry. Each country contracted a specific amount based on their needs. FM simply filled orders. Had they not done it, another mint would have, perhaps our own US Mint or RCM. FM didn't kill the market, these countries simply gained their independence and grew to a point where they could finally afford to hire a proper mint to manufacture quality coins.
<< <i>Perhaps my saying the packaging was good was pretty misleading >>
Not at all. Not your fault those people decided to remove their coins from the sealed PVC-free plastic only to seat them loosely in a felt or polystyrene tray. I'd take FM packaging over US Mint packaging any day of the week (from that era). No pinholed celophane, no easily-opened capsules, and certainly not mailed in flimsy paper envelopes with thin cardboard inserts!
<< <i>I certainly agree their sales tactics back in the day went too far >>
Separate the product from the company, you are not collecting the company. Did they have sleazy sales tactics? Yes and they also made a TON of junk and crap for HSN and QVC and still do to this very day. Most is not even coin-related. So what? How does that have ANYTHING to do with the quality or credibility of the coins?
Folks, the fact is that 99% of the world's nations do not mint their own coins. The US Mint, British mints in London and Birmingham, RCM, Paris, China and Aussie mint the world's coins with rare exception.
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I collect pre-decimal milled British and copper but now not a lot to buy that doesn't cost a King's Ransom, so as a sidelight have bought at near to bullion many of these bullion pieces but paid some extra for very rare bits. The artistry is certainly first-rate, technically these appear to be struck on very good metal to very high standards...
I also agree that the FM's marketing back in the '70s and '80s was atrocious, and waited for many of these pieces to a time when I could buy them at very attractive prices. Some of my friends have seen them and asked me to help them get a few as well. I remember getting most of my Jamaica proof sets for about 15-20 USD in about '05-'08 and then prices went up quite a bit - hard to beat that....
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>The coins were sent out in a plastic or a plastic and paper sleeve and so far as I know these are
all very stable for long term storage. However, if the coins were removed from these and placed in
the fancy boxes that came with them then the coins willbe ruined in many cases. Some countries
have a felt looking lining that quickly disintegrates but others are stable.
The vast majority of sets I see are still in the sleeves where the coins are relatively safe.
Perhaps my saying the packaging was good was pretty misleading since any coins placed in the
boxes will be destroyed except for a few countries like Panama and BVI which are more stable. Even
these though might be pretty hard on delicate proof surfaces in a humid enviroment. >>
Indeed, the coins kept in the bubble-style wrap are pretty safe. But what's not been mentioned yet is that the sets were distributed with helpful little "how to take care of your coins" cards, which instructed people to carefully cut open the plastic bubble-style wrapping (which was intended only as a short-term storage for shipping), throw the wrapping away and place the coins directly into the pseudo-velvet box. They even gave out little pairs of disposable gloves so your coins didn't get fingerprints on while you did this. Anyone who followed Franklin Mint's instructions unwittingly ruined their coins. The small minority who disobeyed instructions are much more likely to still have pristine coins.
Again, this is more a criticism of the company, rather than the coins themselves. Indeed, since it ruined a majority of the mintage, it has made the survivors more valuable than they otherwise would be.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
<< <i>Indeed, the coins kept in the bubble-style wrap are pretty safe. But what's not been mentioned yet is that the sets were distributed with helpful little "how to take care of your coins" cards, which instructed people to carefully cut open the plastic bubble-style wrapping (which was intended only as a short-term storage for shipping), throw the wrapping away and place the coins directly into the pseudo-velvet box. They even gave out little pairs of disposable gloves so your coins didn't get fingerprints on while you did this. Anyone who followed Franklin Mint's instructions unwittingly ruined their coins. The small minority who disobeyed instructions are much more likely to still have pristine coins.
Again, this is more a criticism of the company, rather than the coins themselves. Indeed, since it ruined a majority of the mintage, it has made the survivors more valuable than they otherwise would be. >>
Perhaps I just don't see the ruined coins because they aren't even offered for resale. Of
course you're right that the directions said to put them in the holders using the enclosed
plastic gloves.
It's a shame and inexcusable the amount of bad packaging and holders made for numisma-
tists that aren't stable. You often don't know until it's too late. I've thrown out tremendous
amounts of original mint packaging over the years (but never any gold I believe
the good stuff and only have a couple grocery bags full. I used lots of the FM gloves, too,
but mostly for opening up proof sets and removing the coins. Some world mint and proof sets
can just break your heart if you don't remove the coins and some if you do. I've really been
pretty lucky with saving most of my coins in time. One thing you learn is that foam rubber is
evil. It's always evil. Most synthetic "velvets" or "felts" are very bad. Soft plastic of any sort
is bad. Just because the outside of the holder is stable doesn't garauntee that there isn't
an interior soft plasic like with 1968 to '84 US mint sets.
You've got to look at your coins once in a while.
Perhaps some of these coins really are much scarcer than I've been figuring. Rather than a
mere 1.5% attrition it might be over 2%. This would make a lot of them already tough in or-
iginal condition.
<< <i>
Folks, the fact is that 99% of the world's nations do not mint their own coins. The US Mint, British mints in London and Birmingham, RCM, Paris, China and Aussie mint the world's coins with rare exception. >>
That's entirely inaccurate. Every single European country mints its own coins, (Germany has actually 5 mints,), and the same goes for the Asian, South American and several African countries. There are very few countries that have their coins minted elsewhere, notably some Carribean island nations and a few other small or extremely poor countries.
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Well, just Love coins, period.