<< <i>This thread is definitely a trip down memory lane for me.
Sports Net! That was the name of that thing. I remember it just starting to take off in the early 90's. Too funny...
Most of my investments turned out badly, but I had a fun and that's all that mattered back then...
My own horror story: About 1992, I bought a pack of 1980-81 Topps Basketball and pulled out the most beautiful Bird/Magic I or anyone had ever seen. I mean this thing was a screamer. I was getting offers from dealers left and right. This was before PSA was starting to take off so I didn't think about grading it.
I liked the card, but my real passion at the time? Unopened Wax! So after listening to various offers for the card, what did I decide on? I traded this card for an unopened box of 1984 Donruss. At the time they were going for around $500. A sure fire investment that could only go up. LOL. For what it's worth, it was a very clean box.
But that Bird/Magic was so gorgeous. AT LEAST a PSA 9, and if it wasn't a 10, I don't know what was >>
If it makes you feel better you can still get $200 for an 84 Donruss box!
So - this edition is about the "Bricks" that help "sink" the hobby.
The "Brick" - a word ya don't hear anymore - but for those who were around in the early 90s? If ya went to a big show - there were guys with stacks and stacks of the same cards - obviously guys were breaking vending cases by the carload!
As I had said before - if one got SCD - one saw all kinds of ads for "bulk" purchases of both Rookies and Stars.
We were lured in by cards that could be purchased for a few pennies or 5 cents and were booking for anywhere from 50 cents to a buck. Gee - just like penny stocks! By the time we're old enough to pee 3 to 4 times a nite? We would be sitting on a gold mine!!!!!
Moreover - everything was so hot back then, that some guys had their SCDs "special delivered" to beat the regular crowd and off course - does anyone remember how excited they got when they saw their next iteration in the mailbox? Back then - sometimes there were 2 to 300 pages to consume!!!
Now - I have way more of this crap than I would care to confess - so this is just the tip of the iceberg - unfortunately:
This is golden opportunity for some of you to break out the "stacks" - look at them - laugh your ass off - get pissed off - or just lament about - it right now.
For those who play Texas Holdem? Let the "bad beats" abound! You can tell your story right here - and we won't charge you a buck to confess - get it off your chest - purge it forever!
Now - I will have to say - it wasn't all bad - back then guys were selling vintage in "bricks" also - I usually found these with auction houses as opposed to SCD "bulksters."
Greg Manning was a good source for me.
So - I'll also have stacks like this buried in the closed:
Not a bad deal - back around 1990 - one can buy cards for somewhere in the 50 cents to 2 buck range - depending on the year.
And one can get lucky - these 60Ts were in good shape and I did send a few to PSA as part of the club sub - one came back an 8 - the other a 9 - not bad for a 50 cent investment.
But, on the flip side - I have loads of 800 count boxes full of Dave Winfields and Tommy Glavine cards - and - of course not the RC years! I do have bricks of Glavine RCs - but - then again an important thing - back then - you got what you got - so many of the cards are going to be OC.
Does anyone remember seeing these guys at the National - selling cards at a dime a piece and peeling them off like a bank cashier?
Again - as I've said - for those lacking focus during this era? We fell prey to every hobby whim that came down the pike!
So - we bought a brick. And then another. And another. And another. And eventually? We were sunk. Nice metaphor? I'll let the reader decide.
And just to add to the Insert Mania that started back around 1991-2 - here's a stack of just 92F Ultras that I found in a box with all those stacks of cards:
God knows how much effort it would take to corner the market on all the inserts from all the companies from 1992 alone
Yes, the memories. How about printing some of the sell ads from those SCD magazines from about 1991 to 1992. It is mind boggling to see what 1991 Stadium Club baseball boxes and sets were going for at one point. I think it was like $250+ for a wax box.
Sometimes timing is everything. I got lucky as I was in my break time during the brick craze and never bought a single one. Great write up as always!!!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Great thread guys! I've got the focus, now for the budget! >>
Hiya Bruce
You don't know how dead on you are with that simple post!
I'm way, way more happy with a budget to go with my collecting focus.
I swear - sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the nite thinking about what I had spent and didn't even know what I had or what I was doing!
Everyone needs - in the beginning - a mentor - someone to guide them and help them.
One of my favorite collectors - you all know as Bishop. Al had been collecting Topps sets since he was a kid - WITHOUT a break! He knows exactly what he wants and works at it each and every day in some way.
He's one of the key guys along with BobsBBcards and David Hornish (I highly recommend his BLOG) on the Topps brand.
I'm not an expert on anything - so I really don't deserve to mentor anyone but in my own small way - I can offer my experiences and hope some learn from them.
I am new to the boards and recently back in the hobby after exiting when things got out of control. Thanks for the memories as I recall reading Rosen's "propaganda" in the bookstore then spending every last dime of my allowance on overproduced wax. As the years went on, I did have a partner that did talk me off the ledge a few times and a local dealer in a card shop that knew my likes. Now, I am learning everything all over again and getting a grip on the ins and outs of grading companies such as PSA. I look to be a regular figure on here and contribute where I can, maybe even join in on some of the group breaks so I can rip open some packs that I missed as a kid!
Terrific writeup as usual, Mike, with some great reflection on what the hobby was all about back then. You should start a blog, Mike!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Now - again - let me state that we were bombarded by ads encouraging us to "invest" in bulk.
One of the big sellers back then was the Meyer Bros. who like the Scoreboard - were selling cards in mass at very good prices - in fact - too good!
I'm going to jump back for a second since I found a cool - early - PSA ad (very "folksy") - and let's talk about the mindset back then.
Like a plane in fog without avionics, we were "flying blind" when buying.
The pictures/scans in SCD were very poor - we relied on the description of the seller whether in print or over the phone - and to boot - the standards were weak back then - what Polo Grounds called Mint - well I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.
So, enter PSA - they came in like gang busters - way more promotion than SGC - and tho earlier companies like Superlative languished due to lack of demand - we were NOW ready to accept TPGs to help us buy via the mail.
There just wasn't an internet back then - you guys have no idea how good it is - now - compared to then. So - we embraced PSA e.g.
Just look at those tag-lines! We soon had to adjust our thinking since if taken at it's word, one can "buy the holder." Just imagine - to our chagrin we found out that ya still had to buy the card NOT the holder! But, in perspective - to the early 90s - this was a step forward - we did have a bit of peace of mind when buying from SCD or an auction.
The problem? They soon realized the "flaw" in TPGs - and started to assign a "premium" to some cards that they felt were undergraded or just had that extra pop. And - to this day - I still don't understand how the Polo Grounds could have a card graded PSA 8 for $450, e.g., and the same card designated Mint for $250?!!!
A step forward? And two steps back? You make the determination. But, as I said - all and all - TPGs did their job and helped stabilize the industry. Especially to the newbie who needed plenty of assistance.
I was putting some graded away and saw these odd and end graded and it got me thinking of 1992 when PSA was pretty darn new.
I was at the '92 National in Atlanta and PSA had the flagship of the fleet prominently on display - the PSA 8 Wagner.
I met Mike Baker there and he gave me this card as an example of what to expect - how this was the "wave of the future" and a "sure way" to purchase cards without the usual fear. Also present and accounted for? Alan Hager and his ASA - AccuGrade service. He gave me a sample of their holder - he held the patent on the holder that PSA was also using and was the creator of the 10 point grading system - I believe that was his copyright or patent? We all know what an "interesting" character Hager is/was to the coin and card grading industry and debates over beers could last for weeks on the merit of owning a TPG and selling their wares e.g.
And the companies that followed are too numerous to count but I've added a few for the sheer sake of how they killed the grading industry with spin-offs of themselves as if they were a TV sitcoms. Beckett e.g. And why did SCD who was failing as a weekly have to try their hand at grading?
And I added this "Gem" - I bought it for 8 bucks in hopes that it was either trimmed or fake to have as a file copy - and much to my disappointment? It was real and untrimmed!
And - as I said - in 1992, TPGs made perfect sense? Could they truly allay fears? Were they the savior of the hobby? Well, if we look at the number of graded cards - we might be forced to the conclusion that we couldn't do without them? Key question. Can they maintain quality control with the volume they receive? I'll let you guys decide that.
I just think it's been a cool road we've gone down since 1989 - when the card industry changed forever.
My next thoughts will be on the "Promo card" explosion.
Anyone wanna buy a hundred Karl Best rookie cards? Come on, folks, he had a 1.95 ERA, 32Ks and 6 walks for the 1985 Mariners. Yes, I did buy them, along with bricks of the likes of Phil Bradley and Dave Magadan. Penny stocks that are now not even worth a penny.
My worst investment from those days was 130 1987 Topps factory sets (the generic brown box) for $28 each from Mr Mint. Purchased in 1988, I was gonna hold for 2 years and sell for $75 each. Didn't quite work out that way but I believed the hype.
Ahhh. The 1991 Series 2 Jeff Bagwell RC, guessing in a 50-count stack. Buddy and I use to blow them out at $15 while every other dealer tried to get $20. Good times.
Thanks again for sharing, Mike.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
It's been some time since I added to my ramblings about the hobby. I noticed there's a few scans missing - I apologize - will fix. Also, for anyone who hasn't seen my thread - I would truly like you - when you have the time - to read. I enjoy the input from those who were there and to those who are more contemporary - I hope you can envision how the hobby was back then?
OK - here we go. The Promo!
Let's go back in time to the early 90s and as I've said, the hobby went nuts!
My take? The baby boomers were hitting their stride - between 30 and 40 - had some money - and was ready to recapture their youth. The nostalgia gene kicked in and their "collecting hormones" were raging out of control.
The downside? They made the lethal mistake of thinking they could fund their retirement on cases of 1990 Donruss!
As I had said earlier, the insert cards were all the rage, auto cards were just being introduced into packs...
So what's next? THE PROMO CARDS!!!!
In 1992, at the epicenter of the "Promo" universe and approaching critical mass? SHAQ.
And "where" was that cataclysmic eruption? The National in Atlanta. And my first National!
As we entered the room - which was to say the least - overwhelming - were something over 900 tables!
However, much to the chagrin of the vendors, were the "promo" tables where one could pick up reams of very, very shiny cards with enticing "limited" numbers on the backs. They complained the tables kept people from hitting their wares - all neatly dress right dress and ready for inspection! After all, the hobby was now officially a "Business." Money needed to change hands. Dealers with binders filled with quality ephemera moved effortlessly thru the crowds "flipping" their pickups with other dealers with future plans for them.
I'm digressing - back to the promos!
My favorite? The Shaq card with the National logo on the back:
And, I'll have to say, I wasn't impressed by all the promos and did bypass a lot of the tables. There was just so much to see and I saw no future standing in a long line. Then, again, who knew they would "temporarily" explode and dealers were selling them at inane prices!
Heck, QVC was selling Shaq promo sets of all the cards for around 10 bucks per card - set of like 10 or so? And, that led me to believe there's way more being produced by Classic, e.g., than people might care to know.
The point? They were doomed to go from "hero" to "zero" in the course of a few months.
But, that didn't stop the dealers in SCD from selling them in mass. Since there wasn't any ebay e.g. - people relied on their purchases from the local card shop, flea market or trade publications like SCD.
I selected some of the boatload of the promos I've been given over the few years they were alive and well. If anyone wants to add a favorite? Please do!
So, I was happy the National reached the southland, where I was stationed - it was my first - it was well organized - they kept the lines flowing and that included for autos.
SCD did a nice job of reporting on it and will never forget it. For one thing, PSA was just getting their sea legs while introducing the T206 Wagner and inviting people to take a closer look at their product. I met Mike Baker who gave me a sample of the PSA holder. I also met Alan Hager of ASA - a competitor and patent holder of the "Arrowhead" which PSA also employed. I spoke on that earlier.
So, where does the Promo card fit in this historical perspective? Did it have about as much impact as beanie babies and POGS?
I'll let you guys decide that. The important thing? They existed and dominated the landscape for a bit and gave people something to chase.
However I would be remiss if I didn't say: I had NOT learned my lesson yet. Even though it was glaring right at me to the tune of over 900 tables. I HAVE to get FOCUS. I HAVE to establish a BUDGET! I guess I should've put that to lyrics and melody!
If anyone gets anything from me at this point? Focus and budget. I wish I had this forum when I was getting back into the hobby in 1987 or so.
outside it was in the high 90's with 100% humidity.
inside, we wore full suit and ties for our first venture into the world of high end card sales and it was a sweaty success.
the Shaq promos? oh yeah. i recall a ceremonial disposal of them into the trash cans. we shared a good laugh with a few other dealers. wonder now if anyone from the Janitorial & Maintenance Dept. had a major cardiac when they found all the bags.
outside it was in the high 90's with 100% humidity.
inside, we wore full suit and ties for our first venture into the world of high end card sales and it was a sweaty success.
the Shaq promos? oh yeah. i recall a ceremonial disposal of them into the trash cans. we shared a good laugh with a few other dealers. wonder now if anyone from the Janitorial & Maintenance Dept. had a major cardiac when they found all the bags. >>
Ya know?
I did see some people picking up promos from garbage cans and some guys were buying Shaq promos from kids - not sure what they were offering tho.
Great thread Mike! Glad I stumbled upon this tonight. Brings back so many memories of weekend mall shows, insert crazes, the rise of PSA, the mega Gilbralter shows and the ultimate game-changer...eBay. I recall doing a show back in 1994 and a guy told me about this new site called eBay. I went home that night to see what it was all about and have been on it ever since. It was the last mall show I ever set up at, because I instantly saw eBay was the future. It killed shows, brick and mortar stores and the modern cards over night. I just wish instead of focusing on selling cards on eBay, I would have bought the stock instead.
Yep, those were the days. I am a baby boomer who was in the military at the time. Temporary duty (TDY) was common with 4-6 month trips to cities all over. I was a jet engine technician at the time. I had done several shows in the early 80's and collected tons of packs with stars on top. As a set builder I would buy almost everything I could. Once Donruss and Fleer arrived, it was tough to do that, but I tried. By 1987 I had over 100,000 cards. After all, I was going to get three children to college. I was hoarding baseball, often tossing that junk "basketball" stuff to the side. Football, nah, didn't care much for it. I was buying 60's and 70's stuff cheap, and I liked it. I bought a case of 1988 Score and was thrilled! I had previously bouight Fleer cases and Donruss rack cases to leave sealed. Yep, my kids were going to Yale or Stanford. I had a script to Baseball Card Magazine and I was on top of it. In 1989 I remember pushing that new expensive stuff (UD) to the side too, it was a buck a pack, twice the price of everyone else. San Antonio Spurs got this new player, that started the run on basketball stuff. I had this friend who somehow got his hands on several hundred sets of Diamond Shamrock (now Valero) cards with David Robinson in the set. He made a killing off of that stuff, even traded a bunch for vintage baseball. 1990 was much the same, only this time I didn't miss out on UD; got my case of that too. In 89 or 90, I was in St Louis for 6 months. I hit up the local Mother's cookies truck up for three cases of cookies with Ryan in each pack. Oh ya, I was working on retirement at this point. I set up at a St Louie card show and ran out of cookies in an hour. All the dealers had free cookies on their tables. It was hilarious. When my wife came out to visit a month later, her luggage included more cookies. It was fun. This continued into Basketball season with more Fleer cases. To this day, I have like, 10 1990 Fleer sets with stickers and 15 without-money in the bank. I fell in love with food product cards and was constantly buying cereal, pizza, mac n cheese, coke, and on and on. Denny's, Church's Chicken and on and on. Cases were piling up and ebay was ablaze! I scored tons of autos, rock and roll memorabilia, sports programs, etc. I'm not sure what year it was, but some guy had 100+ Mantles slabbed and graded. What in the heck was this all about? I argued with him a while and told him no way I would pay $100 for a Mantle. I continued buying cases, even though the rules changed; gotta have a store front? What!? That's alright, this was about the time I learned to loiter at Sam's Club. In those days, cases would be set out I have seen grown men wrestle over 90 and 91 Score and Stadium Club cases. I was learneing about candy whole sellers too. This continued until I retired from the Air Force in 94. But I was set-over 300,000 cards and lots of unopened packs, boxes and cases .It was in that year I stopped, the hype and big money was changing my hobby. Cards would be bought in the back of the store before they were ever stocked on shelves. I took a break from 1994 to 2001, I was tired, broke, and drained. My "gold" stash wasn't holding up like I thought. I sold many early 80 sets that I built, but it was only helping with our local junior college bills, not paying for an Ivy League School in full. The mid to late 80's stuff just wouldn't sell. It was all fun and I ended up with lots of 60's, 70's stuff in the end. And I'm still working, but some day...
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>I bought a case of 1988 Score and was thrilled! >>
Hey there John
Thanx for the very candid account of your hobby experience during the "boom."
Lucky for me, I didn't buy a lot of overproduced stuff. But, I do have a small hoard of boxes that I paid over 50 bucks for and couldn't get more than 8 bucks.
As I said when I discussed boxes, I don't know what I was doing! At the time? I was just as swept away as anyone with the idea of buying now and selling down the road for a nice profit?
Another point - from the promos post - it took me way too long to learn my lesson - get some kind of handle on the hobby.
That's why the thing I most enjoy collecting is board games.
With the long weekend, I decided to add another perspective - the SLU aka Starting Lineup.
It's hard today for anyone to experience the drama of the early 90s with respect to collecting.
Does anyone remember standing in line at Sam's - waiting for them to open in hopes of getting some "new" product? I remember running there every day when 92F Ultra BB came out!
The SLU can be prominently found at ToysRUs - so all kinds of shenanigans were afoot!
People would bribe store workers to call them when cases of the product came in - and thus, would buy up the whole shipment before anyone else could get a shot at even 1 SLU!
I used to hit the PX every day when I knew product was coming out.
I thought a little background would be nice in the way of review:
Starting Lineup was a brand of action figures produced from 1988 to 2001, first by Kenner and later by Hasbro. They were conceived by Pat McInally, himself a former professional American football player with the Cincinnati Bengals, in 1986. The figures became very popular, and eventually included sports stars from baseball, football, basketball, and hockey; and, to a lesser extent, auto racing, boxing, track & field, skating, soccer, and golf.
McInally came up with the idea during a visit to a toy store. He noticed there were many figurines available of the likes of G.I. Joe, but nothing based on real-life sports heroes. McInally and a former college friend who was running Kenner's day to day operations decided to work together on the project. Today, the figures are collector items. The prices on the figures vary dramatically. The low-end items can be acquired for around or above retail cost, but many rarer items can fetch prices as high as several thousand dollars for a single figure.
A typical figurine stands about 4 inches (10 cm) tall, but the brand at times launched various special series that can be much larger including a 14" NBA line and came with a sports card of the respective athlete.
Kenner debuted the Starting Lineup figures in 1988 by releasing a 124 player set.
Each team had at least four players in the set except for the Canadian teams of Montreal and Toronto that had only one player because Kenner believed that there was an insufficient number of retail outlets in Canada to warrant a full team set, (Tim Raines and George Bell, respectively.)
The Chicago Cubs and New York Mets had the most players in the set with seven per team. Kenner tended to distribute the players to stores by geographical region, so it was virtually impossible to complete the set or find players from out of market.
Since I admitted I was one of "those" who chased all over hell and creation for these pieces of plastic, I have way more of them than I care to admit. In fact, I have an entire case of racing SLU's and I wasn't even a big racing fan. Don't remember what I paid - but now? It was TOO much! Keep in mind, as was said, the "regional" aspect of some players drove the collectors crazy. So, there were dealers that specialized in SLUs; advertising in SCD and Tuff Stuff. In fact, Tuff Stuff had a dedicated feature - the Kenner Kollector for years:
And where there's SLUs? There's a price guide - this one is from the 1990 Tuff Stuff:
To add - Minnesota Connection in SCD - who always appeared on page 13, was SLU Headquarters!
And, of course, SHAQ was at the center of SLU nation back around 1992-3.
Here a favorite of mine - it was some kind of limited edition Shaq:
Along with Shaq, Michael Jordan was a fan-favorite with copies exchanging hands easily at 10X retail!
My favorite:
When people were actually trying to collect a complete set, prices for the SP's or "hard to find" copies were in the hundreds!
A favorite of mine that I got at the PX would set ya back over a 100 clams at one point - Ken Griffey Jr.
My favorite - his first - "sliding" variation:
So, for those caught up in SLU-land, what's your experiences? Favorites?
I remember that the '93 hockey went thru the roof - not sure I remember why? Limited production would be my guess - and early on - limited popularity? I'm sure many have their own stories of lines and lines of collectors in a frenzied state of hyperkinesis. Accounts of pushing and shoving were reported in stores - by women!
i got very heavy into SLUs with my father...i know all about the daily trips to Toys R Us...We had "a guy" in several...
started as a normal kid collecting them in 88. still have all of my original opened stars like Jordan, Marino, Boggs, etc; then about 91 got into them collecting wise and keeping everything sealed. eventually had hundreds and was selling out of ads in the back of tuff stuff. Had a regular collector in japan who would call and request nearly the entire series of a sport and we'd ship him out a huge box a few times a year.
my "highlight" was naively buying the "gold magic" without knowing it was anything special. kept it in pristine condition and cherished it as a 12 year old. i remember it booking around $450 at the high point.
that first year of hockey was big; totally forgot... goalies! grant fuhr!?! $100 for grant fuhr?!?
had a big 3-4 year run, was stopped around 94 or so. my last real memory of new releases was the A-rod rookie being hot. eventually we donated boxes of the non stars to goodwill, etc. I still have maybe 100 or so sealed - probably 15 or so jordans, ryans, griffey rookies, a-rod rookies; a few rare 88s (though i never got any of the really crazy limited first year ones)
i dunno, i feel like at some point they'll become popular again? i'm pretty sure people won't be lining up to buy jeremy roenicks rookies like that first year, but the original jordans, magics, etc are still pretty cool
Being a raider fan, I bought a few of them (SLU) in 1988 and as they were intended, I opened them. I had Howie Long, Marcus Allen and Todd Christensen. I still have the cards and the figures.
I took a break from collecting shortly thereafter when I joined the Navy and probably didn't buy another SLU until around 1993. At that point, they remained sealed when I bought them (until a few years back when i opened a good 50+ common to so-so pieces to make space). It was the craziness that you describe that eventually drove me out of collecting them, say around 1996 or 1997. However, I spent a lot of time driving from store to store, trying to find decent pieces and collected several hundred by then. The good news is that I rarely paid more than retail for them, even during the hot times. The bad news is that I didn't get some of the better pieces at the time. I have bought a great number of them really cheap since as I still enjoy them and landed some decent pieces that I missed the first go around. If I can get them for a buck or so, i buy them all day. i probably still have about 500 of them unopened now.
Most I paid was probably either the 93 Extended Maddux or the Maddux first piece and I'd guess both were in the $30 range. That 93 was tough at the time, but you can probably get one for under $10 now. The one I always wanted, but couldn't afford was the 88 Karl Malone. I used to collect Malone cards pretty heavily, otherwise I could have cared less.
I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
Mike - this thread just keeps getting better and triggering more and more memories of collecting in the 80's and 90's. I never got too big into SLU's (thank goodness), but was and still am a bit of a Jordan nut. Here are the ones I still have in my collection. And yes, that is Jordan wrapping paper...I know, I am a bit of a freak.
mrmint23 - I love the 1990 Barry Sanders SLU...one of my favorite pieces! Also am really digging the vintage Han Solo still on card...great item.
I have 20-25 Starting Lineups that I got when they came out. They are boxed up in my card closet. I don't remember who all I have but I know there are a few Jordans, the 1990 Barry Sanders, a couple Griffeys and Dale Earnhardts. I also still have several Wheaties boxes and a couple Braves World Series Frosted Flakes boxes.
I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. I remember the error card craze in 1989 and 1990. When the 1990 Donruss first came out it was full of error cards. I remember buying a pair of the Nolan Ryan wrong back cards at a show on Saturday. If I remember correctly I paid around $40 for the pair. I went to a show that Sunday and a dealer friend had a fit to have the cards. I sold them to him for $100. James
<< <i>I have 20-25 Starting Lineups that I got when they came out. They are boxed up in my card closet. I don't remember who all I have but I know there are a few Jordans, the 1990 Barry Sanders, a couple Griffeys and Dale Earnhardts. I also still have several Wheaties boxes and a couple Braves World Series Frosted Flakes boxes.
I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. I remember the error card craze in 1989 and 1990. When the 1990 Donruss first came out it was full of error cards. I remember buying a pair of the Nolan Ryan wrong back cards at a show on Saturday. If I remember correctly I paid around $40 for the pair. I went to a show that Sunday and a dealer friend had a fit to have the cards. I sold them to him for $100. James >>
Thanx for your input James - have not yet covered "errors" or cereal boxes. Stay tuned.
I'll try and post some pics at some point but I love the SLU talk. I, too, was one of those Wal-Mart lurkers who went every day to the three local Wal-Marts to see if they had gotten in any new SLUs. I live in a small town so got lucky some times. Did anyone else hit up the "Everything's a Dollar" stores when the cases of Diego Maradona soccer SLUs got shipped over from Europe? I bought all they had (maybe 6) for a dollar a piece and put them on Ebay. Can't remember what I got for them but remember it was a sweet feeling. Felt like printing money. I still have boxes of them stored in a closet in my baseball card room and have thought in the last few months about dragging them back out and seeing what's in there. This thread may be the catalyst to do that. My favorites were the Griffey Jr with his hat on backwards, all things Mattingly, and the Bo Jackson pieces. The silliest ones IMO were the NFL ones with the players with shorts on as "practice" pieces. Thanks for a great thread! Lots of good memories.
Don Mattingly, Yogi Berra, Thurman Munson, Brian McCann and Topps Rookie Cup autograph collector www.questfortherookiecup.com
Even after SLU popularity died down, I continued buying them - granted, I'd pick up closeout price ones at Pic N Save (now known as Big Lots) or at thrift stores. I never paid more than retail for any of mine either. I was also into Corinthian Headliners, which were big at Pic N Save. They're still taking up space.
I bought them direct for like 40 bucks per - thought they were cool. Then, a few years later you could buy them from dealers in SCD for 20 if memory serves. I guess it pays to wait.
There's still plenty of people who enjoy SLUs. My understanding is that they weren't produced in mega amounts?
I bought most of the new Hartlands in the $25-$30 range 6-7 years ago I believe. Like them a lot and have them on display although I doubt I will ever recover what I paid for them.
Going back to your original thread, I too experienced the boom from the early 80s to the mid 90s. Although I still have the Topps sets, hand collated, from those years (courtesy of collecting with my boys), I was fortunate to concentrate on vintage cards when so much attention was given to the modern, new products. Back then it was not unusual to trade modern cards for vintage as dealers could unload their modern cards faster. Traded several UD Griffey RCs for $100-$150 in vintage each. Same with Bonds, McGuire, etc. Worked on older Topps sets in NM-NM/MT condition and it wasn't hard to find these cards at 50%-60% Beckett prices at most cards shows. The pre-grading years were great for buying NM/MINT commons. If folks think the National Convention is crowded these days, it is nothing compared to the 1990s when the lines went on forever just to enter the show. Then trying to get up to a table was a challenge. Those were crazy times and when I think of all the unopened Topps, Donruss, and Fleer boxes that still exists, it is mind boggling. I still have a friend who is still sitting on his many 1987 and 1988 Topps Baseball unopened boxes because he thinks their value will come back. Some nasty "investments" took place back then.
Does anyone remember or had done business with the Perfect Card Company? Nobody seems to remember them but they were one of the few big unopened sellers at card shows in the 90s. They had a source who was a retired candy store owner and was sitting on boxes of late 50s through 1970s wax boxes. He'd dribble out some product every year to them around tax time. They were breaking boxes from just about every year from 1960 on up. Several of the pieces in my unopened collection, including many of the packs that have stars showing, came from them. Prices weren't rock bottom then. I still have the plastic containers they came in when I bought them and have the sticker price still on them. I remember paying $170 for the 1970 4th though 6th series pack, $275 for a 1969 Ryan series wax pack and $325 for the 1963 nickel wax pack (with Tom Tresh showing).
My buddy has a picture of their display case circa 1995 but he's been unable to find it. If he locates it, I'll post it. You don't see displays like that anymore, not even at BBCE's national booth.
<< <i>I bought most of the new Hartlands in the $25-$30 range 6-7 years ago I believe. Like them a lot and have them on display although I doubt I will ever recover what I paid for them.
Going back to your original thread, I too experienced the boom from the early 80s to the mid 90s. Although I still have the Topps sets, hand collated, from those years (courtesy of collecting with my boys), I was fortunate to concentrate on vintage cards when so much attention was given to the modern, new products. Back then it was not unusual to trade modern cards for vintage as dealers could unload their modern cards faster. Traded several UD Griffey RCs for $100-$150 in vintage each. Same with Bonds, McGuire, etc. Worked on older Topps sets in NM-NM/MT condition and it wasn't hard to find these cards at 50%-60% Beckett prices at most cards shows. The pre-grading years were great for buying NM/MINT commons. If folks think the National Convention is crowded these days, it is nothing compared to the 1990s when the lines went on forever just to enter the show. Then trying to get up to a table was a challenge. Those were crazy times and when I think of all the unopened Topps, Donruss, and Fleer boxes that still exists, it is mind boggling. I still have a friend who is still sitting on his many 1987 and 1988 Topps Baseball unopened boxes because he thinks their value will come back. Some nasty "investments" took place back then. >>
I recall those days fondly too. I wish I hadn't limited my focus to mostly the 1969 Topps set as I surely passed over many gems from other years. I also regret I wasn't willing to pay over book price as I would have likely picked up a lot more high grade cards had I done so. The only cards I remember paying over book price for were the 1969 Bonds RC and the Clemente. I think I paid $40 to Randy Franeaux (sp?) for the Bonds (it graded 8 due to centering) and $100 to another dealer for the Clemente (it graded a 9). I wonder how many gems were destroyed by being pulled out and stuffed back into dealer binders over the years?
It may take 20 more years, but SLUs will come back in style one day. If you're sitting on nice condition key examples I wouldn't be giving 'em away on Ebay...
Hey Mike... Nope, no tobacco cards but sure wish I had. There were a lot of them available back then, especially in VG-EX condition and certainly at prices that pale to today's. I was collecting 1956s to 1970s Topps baseball at the time and like I said, I had no trouble finding them in NM to NM/MINT. I would go to a big card show and have to leave a lot of cards in dealers' cases simple because I would run out of money to spend. The 1980s- mid 90s were good times to build nice vintage sets at reasonable prices. The exceptions were the HOFers' cards like Mantle, Mays, Koufax, etc. where the prices were high even for the times. The only negative was that I did buy some nice cards of HOFers that turned out to be trimmed when I sent them in for grading. If not anything else, third party grading has revealed the alterations that took place back then and has made us much more educated about the issue. Back then, unless it was obvious, you didn't pay as much attention to the possibility of cards being altered.
Thought I'd reply to this thread as a way of introduction. I've lurked on this forum more than I've posted. I also post on the coin and metal detecting forums .
My heyday of collecting as a kid was late 1970s to early 1990s. Football from late 1970s to early 1980s, baseball for all that span. Mainly just ripped wax packs and traded with friends. We didn't bother building sets, just collected our favorite players. Mine were Walter Payton, Nolan Ryan, and Rod Carew.
Stopped collecting cards and coins after college (graduated 1991) and picked coins back up 12 years ago. Tried cards again around the same time for maybe a year, but the landscape had changed so much -- the concept of inserts was very foreign to me -- that I lost interest again. Picked up collecting the occasional pack of football cards to rip about a year ago. Mostly I look to either "rip and flip" (for a profit) or I trade with my 9-year-old son . He likes Ravens cards (we live near Baltimore), especially more current players, and some of the star players. I got lucky last year and pulled a Topps Chrome Trent Richardson sticker auto last year. Got $50 on eBay for it .
Last year, I bought a 1979 Topps Walter Payton PSA 8, my first graded card. It was one of my favorite Paytons as a kid, and my childhood example has the expected corner and edge dings. I also bought a PSA 1997 UD Legends LeRoy Selmon auto, because I think that auto series is awesome and I lived in Tampa for several years prior to moving to Maryland.
I've been enjoying this thread, for the trip down memory lane and the history lessons.
The problem is that some of the scans aren’t showing and if you’ve ever tried to edit an old thread since the format change? Really hard to see.
If you ever had time on your hands - it would please me to no end - if you would go back read where we started and we can see where I was going?
To sum up:
I started with a “show and tell” of the unopened I picked up in the early 90s. To brag?
No.
Not to brag or complain - mainly to illustrate: I had NO focus!
Back in the early 90s I think we got caught up in “trying to corner the market” on just about anything and everything.
And when it came to the early days of ebay?
Well.
Let’s just say - “you could go broke saving money.”
I covered “bulk” buying - i.e. buying by the “brick.”
There was “overproduction” - “Insert Mania” - “Promo Mania”
“And” loads of niche buying like SLU’s - those suckers blanked the landscape. Who doesn’t remember running to Target, Walmart, Toys-R-Us to see if new ones had come in?
My "net" experience - it prompted me to 1. Focus and 2. Budget.
So, I’m back.
I would really appreciate if we could use this as a vehicle for discussion on anything “hobby?”
Next up - will be a discussion on publications - especially the influence of SCD.
Comments
Mike,
Please keep this thread going! It's be a fascinating read so far.
<< <i>This thread is definitely a trip down memory lane for me.
Sports Net! That was the name of that thing. I remember it just starting to take off in the early 90's. Too funny...
Most of my investments turned out badly, but I had a fun and that's all that mattered back then...
My own horror story: About 1992, I bought a pack of 1980-81 Topps Basketball and pulled out the most beautiful Bird/Magic I or anyone had ever seen. I mean this thing was a screamer. I was getting offers from dealers left and right. This was before PSA was starting to take off so I didn't think about grading it.
I liked the card, but my real passion at the time? Unopened Wax! So after listening to various offers for the card, what did I decide on? I traded this card for an unopened box of 1984 Donruss. At the time they were going for around $500. A sure fire investment that could only go up. LOL. For what it's worth, it was a very clean box.
But that Bird/Magic was so gorgeous. AT LEAST a PSA 9, and if it wasn't a 10, I don't know what was >>
If it makes you feel better you can still get $200 for an 84 Donruss box!
Robert
<< <i>Time for another entry Mike!
Robert >>
Hi Robert - thanx! Been busy with stuff. My next episode will be on the "bricks" that sunk the hobby!
Stay tuned.
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving - I did.
So - this edition is about the "Bricks" that help "sink" the hobby.
The "Brick" - a word ya don't hear anymore - but for those who were around in the early 90s? If ya went to a big show - there were guys with stacks and stacks of the same cards - obviously guys were breaking vending cases by the carload!
As I had said before - if one got SCD - one saw all kinds of ads for "bulk" purchases of both Rookies and Stars.
We were lured in by cards that could be purchased for a few pennies or 5 cents and were booking for anywhere from 50 cents to a buck. Gee - just like penny stocks! By the time we're old enough to pee 3 to 4 times a nite? We would be sitting on a gold mine!!!!!
Moreover - everything was so hot back then, that some guys had their SCDs "special delivered" to beat the regular crowd and off course - does anyone remember how excited they got when they saw their next iteration in the mailbox? Back then - sometimes there were 2 to 300 pages to consume!!!
Now - I have way more of this crap than I would care to confess - so this is just the tip of the iceberg - unfortunately:
This is golden opportunity for some of you to break out the "stacks" - look at them - laugh your ass off - get pissed off - or just lament about - it right now.
For those who play Texas Holdem? Let the "bad beats" abound! You can tell your story right here - and we won't charge you a buck to confess - get it off your chest - purge it forever!
Now - I will have to say - it wasn't all bad - back then guys were selling vintage in "bricks" also - I usually found these with auction houses as opposed to SCD "bulksters."
Greg Manning was a good source for me.
So - I'll also have stacks like this buried in the closed:
Not a bad deal - back around 1990 - one can buy cards for somewhere in the 50 cents to 2 buck range - depending on the year.
And one can get lucky - these 60Ts were in good shape and I did send a few to PSA as part of the club sub - one came back an 8 - the other a 9 - not bad for a 50 cent investment.
But, on the flip side - I have loads of 800 count boxes full of Dave Winfields and Tommy Glavine cards - and - of course not the RC years! I do have bricks of Glavine RCs - but - then again an important thing - back then - you got what you got - so many of the cards are going to be OC.
Does anyone remember seeing these guys at the National - selling cards at a dime a piece and peeling them off like a bank cashier?
Again - as I've said - for those lacking focus during this era? We fell prey to every hobby whim that came down the pike!
So - we bought a brick. And then another. And another. And another. And eventually? We were sunk. Nice metaphor? I'll let the reader decide.
God knows how much effort it would take to corner the market on all the inserts from all the companies from 1992 alone
I've got the focus, now for the budget!
Sometimes timing is everything. I got lucky as I was in my break time during the brick craze and never bought a single one. Great write up as always!!!
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Hi Mike!
Now - just think - what the hell am I gonna do with a zillion 90T glossy Sheffields? Even if I paid a penny per - do I hear anyone offer me a penny?
And don't let me leave out the hockey and FB guys?
<< <i>Great thread guys!
I've got the focus, now for the budget! >>
Hiya Bruce
You don't know how dead on you are with that simple post!
I'm way, way more happy with a budget to go with my collecting focus.
I swear - sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the nite thinking about what I had spent and didn't even know what I had or what I was doing!
Everyone needs - in the beginning - a mentor - someone to guide them and help them.
One of my favorite collectors - you all know as Bishop. Al had been collecting Topps sets since he was a kid - WITHOUT a break! He knows exactly what he wants and works at it each and every day in some way.
He's one of the key guys along with BobsBBcards and David Hornish (I highly recommend his BLOG) on the Topps brand.
I'm not an expert on anything - so I really don't deserve to mentor anyone but in my own small way - I can offer my experiences and hope some learn from them.
eBay Store
Greg Maddux #1 Master SetGreg Maddux #2 Basic Set
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You are a great storyteller.
Robert
Now - again - let me state that we were bombarded by ads encouraging us to "invest" in bulk.
One of the big sellers back then was the Meyer Bros. who like the Scoreboard - were selling cards in mass at very good prices - in fact - too good!
I'm going to jump back for a second since I found a cool - early - PSA ad (very "folksy") - and let's talk about the mindset back then.
Like a plane in fog without avionics, we were "flying blind" when buying.
The pictures/scans in SCD were very poor - we relied on the description of the seller whether in print or over the phone - and to boot - the standards were weak back then - what Polo Grounds called Mint - well I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.
So, enter PSA - they came in like gang busters - way more promotion than SGC - and tho earlier companies like Superlative languished due to lack of demand - we were NOW ready to accept TPGs to help us buy via the mail.
There just wasn't an internet back then - you guys have no idea how good it is - now - compared to then. So - we embraced PSA e.g.
Just look at those tag-lines! We soon had to adjust our thinking since if taken at it's word, one can "buy the holder." Just imagine - to our chagrin we found out that ya still had to buy the card NOT the holder! But, in perspective - to the early 90s - this was a step forward - we did have a bit of peace of mind when buying from SCD or an auction.
The problem? They soon realized the "flaw" in TPGs - and started to assign a "premium" to some cards that they felt were undergraded or just had that extra pop. And - to this day - I still don't understand how the Polo Grounds could have a card graded PSA 8 for $450, e.g., and the same card designated Mint for $250?!!!
A step forward? And two steps back? You make the determination. But, as I said - all and all - TPGs did their job and helped stabilize the industry. Especially to the newbie who needed plenty of assistance.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
I was putting some graded away and saw these odd and end graded and it got me thinking of 1992 when PSA was pretty darn new.
I was at the '92 National in Atlanta and PSA had the flagship of the fleet prominently on display - the PSA 8 Wagner.
I met Mike Baker there and he gave me this card as an example of what to expect - how this was the "wave of the future" and a "sure way" to purchase cards without the usual fear.
Also present and accounted for? Alan Hager and his ASA - AccuGrade service. He gave me a sample of their holder - he held the patent on the holder that PSA was also using and was the creator of the 10 point grading system - I believe that was his copyright or patent? We all know what an "interesting" character Hager is/was to the coin and card grading industry and debates over beers could last for weeks on the merit of owning a TPG and selling their wares e.g.
And the companies that followed are too numerous to count but I've added a few for the sheer sake of how they killed the grading industry with spin-offs of themselves as if they were a TV sitcoms. Beckett e.g. And why did SCD who was failing as a weekly have to try their hand at grading?
And I added this "Gem" - I bought it for 8 bucks in hopes that it was either trimmed or fake to have as a file copy - and much to my disappointment? It was real and untrimmed!
And - as I said - in 1992, TPGs made perfect sense? Could they truly allay fears? Were they the savior of the hobby? Well, if we look at the number of graded cards - we might be forced to the conclusion that we couldn't do without them? Key question. Can they maintain quality control with the volume they receive? I'll let you guys decide that.
I just think it's been a cool road we've gone down since 1989 - when the card industry changed forever.
My next thoughts will be on the "Promo card" explosion.
My worst investment from those days was 130 1987 Topps factory sets (the generic brown box) for $28 each from Mr Mint. Purchased in 1988, I was gonna hold for 2 years and sell for $75 each. Didn't quite work out that way but I believed the hype.
I have stacks and stacks of SCDs...always got 1 and saved the mail copy...couldn't wait for it to come pre-InterNet
<< <i>
Ahhh. The 1991 Series 2 Jeff Bagwell RC, guessing in a 50-count stack. Buddy and I use to blow them out at $15 while every other dealer tried to get $20. Good times.
Thanks again for sharing, Mike.
It's been some time since I added to my ramblings about the hobby. I noticed there's a few scans missing - I apologize - will fix. Also, for anyone who hasn't seen my thread - I would truly like you - when you have the time - to read. I enjoy the input from those who were there and to those who are more contemporary - I hope you can envision how the hobby was back then?
OK - here we go. The Promo!
Let's go back in time to the early 90s and as I've said, the hobby went nuts!
My take? The baby boomers were hitting their stride - between 30 and 40 - had some money - and was ready to recapture their youth. The nostalgia gene kicked in and their "collecting hormones" were raging out of control.
The downside? They made the lethal mistake of thinking they could fund their retirement on cases of 1990 Donruss!
As I had said earlier, the insert cards were all the rage, auto cards were just being introduced into packs...
So what's next? THE PROMO CARDS!!!!
In 1992, at the epicenter of the "Promo" universe and approaching critical mass? SHAQ.
And "where" was that cataclysmic eruption? The National in Atlanta. And my first National!
As we entered the room - which was to say the least - overwhelming - were something over 900 tables!
However, much to the chagrin of the vendors, were the "promo" tables where one could pick up reams of very, very shiny cards with enticing "limited" numbers on the backs. They complained the tables kept people from hitting their wares - all neatly dress right dress and ready for inspection! After all, the hobby was now officially a "Business." Money needed to change hands. Dealers with binders filled with quality ephemera moved effortlessly thru the crowds "flipping" their pickups with other dealers with future plans for them.
I'm digressing - back to the promos!
My favorite? The Shaq card with the National logo on the back:
And, I'll have to say, I wasn't impressed by all the promos and did bypass a lot of the tables. There was just so much to see and I saw no future standing in a long line. Then, again, who knew they would "temporarily" explode and dealers were selling them at inane prices!
Heck, QVC was selling Shaq promo sets of all the cards for around 10 bucks per card - set of like 10 or so? And, that led me to believe there's way more being produced by Classic, e.g., than people might care to know.
The point? They were doomed to go from "hero" to "zero" in the course of a few months.
But, that didn't stop the dealers in SCD from selling them in mass. Since there wasn't any ebay e.g. - people relied on their purchases from the local card shop, flea market or trade publications like SCD.
I selected some of the boatload of the promos I've been given over the few years they were alive and well. If anyone wants to add a favorite? Please do!
So, I was happy the National reached the southland, where I was stationed - it was my first - it was well organized - they kept the lines flowing and that included for autos.
SCD did a nice job of reporting on it and will never forget it. For one thing, PSA was just getting their sea legs while introducing the T206 Wagner and inviting people to take a closer look at their product. I met Mike Baker who gave me a sample of the PSA holder. I also met Alan Hager of ASA - a competitor and patent holder of the "Arrowhead" which PSA also employed. I spoke on that earlier.
So, where does the Promo card fit in this historical perspective? Did it have about as much impact as beanie babies and POGS?
I'll let you guys decide that. The important thing? They existed and dominated the landscape for a bit and gave people something to chase.
However I would be remiss if I didn't say: I had NOT learned my lesson yet. Even though it was glaring right at me to the tune of over 900 tables. I HAVE to get FOCUS. I HAVE to establish a BUDGET! I guess I should've put that to lyrics and melody!
If anyone gets anything from me at this point? Focus and budget. I wish I had this forum when I was getting back into the hobby in 1987 or so.
outside it was in the high 90's with 100% humidity.
inside, we wore full suit and ties for our first venture into the world of high end card sales and it was a sweaty success.
the Shaq promos? oh yeah. i recall a ceremonial disposal of them into the trash cans. we shared a good laugh with a few other dealers. wonder now if anyone from the Janitorial & Maintenance Dept. had a major cardiac when they found all the bags.
<< <i>that National was a blazer.
outside it was in the high 90's with 100% humidity.
inside, we wore full suit and ties for our first venture into the world of high end card sales and it was a sweaty success.
the Shaq promos? oh yeah. i recall a ceremonial disposal of them into the trash cans. we shared a good laugh with a few other dealers. wonder now if anyone from the Janitorial & Maintenance Dept. had a major cardiac when they found all the bags.
Ya know?
I did see some people picking up promos from garbage cans and some guys were buying Shaq promos from kids - not sure what they were offering tho.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>I bought a case of 1988 Score and was thrilled! >>
Hey there John
Thanx for the very candid account of your hobby experience during the "boom."
Lucky for me, I didn't buy a lot of overproduced stuff. But, I do have a small hoard of boxes that I paid over 50 bucks for and couldn't get more than 8 bucks.
As I said when I discussed boxes, I don't know what I was doing! At the time? I was just as swept away as anyone with the idea of buying now and selling down the road for a nice profit?
Another point - from the promos post - it took me way too long to learn my lesson - get some kind of handle on the hobby.
That's why the thing I most enjoy collecting is board games.
With the long weekend, I decided to add another perspective - the SLU aka Starting Lineup.
It's hard today for anyone to experience the drama of the early 90s with respect to collecting.
Does anyone remember standing in line at Sam's - waiting for them to open in hopes of getting some "new" product? I remember running there every day when 92F Ultra BB came out!
The SLU can be prominently found at ToysRUs - so all kinds of shenanigans were afoot!
People would bribe store workers to call them when cases of the product came in - and thus, would buy up the whole shipment before anyone else could get a shot at even 1 SLU!
I used to hit the PX every day when I knew product was coming out.
I thought a little background would be nice in the way of review:
Starting Lineup was a brand of action figures produced from 1988 to 2001, first by Kenner and later by Hasbro. They were conceived by Pat McInally, himself a former professional American football player with the Cincinnati Bengals, in 1986. The figures became very popular, and eventually included sports stars from baseball, football, basketball, and hockey; and, to a lesser extent, auto racing, boxing, track & field, skating, soccer, and golf.
McInally came up with the idea during a visit to a toy store. He noticed there were many figurines available of the likes of G.I. Joe, but nothing based on real-life sports heroes. McInally and a former college friend who was running Kenner's day to day operations decided to work together on the project. Today, the figures are collector items. The prices on the figures vary dramatically. The low-end items can be acquired for around or above retail cost, but many rarer items can fetch prices as high as several thousand dollars for a single figure.
A typical figurine stands about 4 inches (10 cm) tall, but the brand at times launched various special series that can be much larger including a 14" NBA line and came with a sports card of the respective athlete.
SLU Commerical.
Kenner debuted the Starting Lineup figures in 1988 by releasing a 124 player set.
Each team had at least four players in the set except for the Canadian teams of Montreal and Toronto that had only one player because Kenner believed that there was an insufficient number of retail outlets in Canada to warrant a full team set, (Tim Raines and George Bell, respectively.)
The Chicago Cubs and New York Mets had the most players in the set with seven per team. Kenner tended to distribute the players to stores by geographical region, so it was virtually impossible to complete the set or find players from out of market.
Since I admitted I was one of "those" who chased all over hell and creation for these pieces of plastic, I have way more of them than I care to admit. In fact, I have an entire case of racing SLU's and I wasn't even a big racing fan. Don't remember what I paid - but now? It was TOO much! Keep in mind, as was said, the "regional" aspect of some players drove the collectors crazy. So, there were dealers that specialized in SLUs; advertising in SCD and Tuff Stuff. In fact, Tuff Stuff had a dedicated feature - the Kenner Kollector for years:
And where there's SLUs? There's a price guide - this one is from the 1990 Tuff Stuff:
To add - Minnesota Connection in SCD - who always appeared on page 13, was SLU Headquarters!
And, of course, SHAQ was at the center of SLU nation back around 1992-3.
Here a favorite of mine - it was some kind of limited edition Shaq:
Along with Shaq, Michael Jordan was a fan-favorite with copies exchanging hands easily at 10X retail!
My favorite:
When people were actually trying to collect a complete set, prices for the SP's or "hard to find" copies were in the hundreds!
A favorite of mine that I got at the PX would set ya back over a 100 clams at one point - Ken Griffey Jr.
My favorite - his first - "sliding" variation:
So, for those caught up in SLU-land, what's your experiences? Favorites?
I remember that the '93 hockey went thru the roof - not sure I remember why? Limited production would be my guess - and early on - limited popularity? I'm sure many have their own stories of lines and lines of collectors in a frenzied state of hyperkinesis. Accounts of pushing and shoving were reported in stores - by women!
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
i got very heavy into SLUs with my father...i know all about the daily trips to Toys R Us...We had "a guy" in several...
started as a normal kid collecting them in 88. still have all of my original opened stars like Jordan, Marino, Boggs, etc; then about 91 got into them collecting wise and keeping everything sealed. eventually had hundreds and was selling out of ads in the back of tuff stuff. Had a regular collector in japan who would call and request nearly the entire series of a sport and we'd ship him out a huge box a few times a year.
my "highlight" was naively buying the "gold magic" without knowing it was anything special. kept it in pristine condition and cherished it as a 12 year old. i remember it booking around $450 at the high point.
that first year of hockey was big; totally forgot... goalies! grant fuhr!?! $100 for grant fuhr?!?
had a big 3-4 year run, was stopped around 94 or so. my last real memory of new releases was the A-rod rookie being hot. eventually we donated boxes of the non stars to goodwill, etc. I still have maybe 100 or so sealed - probably 15 or so jordans, ryans, griffey rookies, a-rod rookies; a few rare 88s (though i never got any of the really crazy limited first year ones)
i dunno, i feel like at some point they'll become popular again? i'm pretty sure people won't be lining up to buy jeremy roenicks rookies like that first year, but the original jordans, magics, etc are still pretty cool
I took a break from collecting shortly thereafter when I joined the Navy and probably didn't buy another SLU until around 1993. At that point, they remained sealed when I bought them (until a few years back when i opened a good 50+ common to so-so pieces to make space). It was the craziness that you describe that eventually drove me out of collecting them, say around 1996 or 1997. However, I spent a lot of time driving from store to store, trying to find decent pieces and collected several hundred by then. The good news is that I rarely paid more than retail for them, even during the hot times. The bad news is that I didn't get some of the better pieces at the time. I have bought a great number of them really cheap since as I still enjoy them and landed some decent pieces that I missed the first go around. If I can get them for a buck or so, i buy them all day. i probably still have about 500 of them unopened now.
Most I paid was probably either the 93 Extended Maddux or the Maddux first piece and I'd guess both were in the $30 range. That 93 was tough at the time, but you can probably get one for under $10 now. The one I always wanted, but couldn't afford was the 88 Karl Malone. I used to collect Malone cards pretty heavily, otherwise I could have cared less.
mrmint23 - I love the 1990 Barry Sanders SLU...one of my favorite pieces! Also am really digging the vintage Han Solo still on card...great item.
I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. I remember the error card craze in 1989 and 1990. When the 1990 Donruss first came out it was full of error cards. I remember buying a pair of the Nolan Ryan wrong back cards at a show on Saturday. If I remember correctly I paid around $40 for the pair. I went to a show that Sunday and a dealer friend had a fit to have the cards. I sold them to him for $100.
James
<< <i>I have 20-25 Starting Lineups that I got when they came out. They are boxed up in my card closet. I don't remember who all I have but I know there are a few Jordans, the 1990 Barry Sanders, a couple Griffeys and Dale Earnhardts. I also still have several Wheaties boxes and a couple Braves World Series Frosted Flakes boxes.
I didn't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. I remember the error card craze in 1989 and 1990. When the 1990 Donruss first came out it was full of error cards. I remember buying a pair of the Nolan Ryan wrong back cards at a show on Saturday. If I remember correctly I paid around $40 for the pair. I went to a show that Sunday and a dealer friend had a fit to have the cards. I sold them to him for $100.
James >>
Thanx for your input James - have not yet covered "errors" or cereal boxes. Stay tuned.
There's probably more people here with pics and stories to share.
I sure hope they jump in.
www.questfortherookiecup.com
Focus: who needs it.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
I bought them direct for like 40 bucks per - thought they were cool. Then, a few years later you could buy them from dealers in SCD for 20 if memory serves. I guess it pays to wait.
There's still plenty of people who enjoy SLUs. My understanding is that they weren't produced in mega amounts?
Going back to your original thread, I too experienced the boom from the early 80s to the mid 90s. Although I still have the Topps sets, hand collated, from those years (courtesy of collecting with my boys), I was fortunate to concentrate on vintage cards when so much attention was given to the modern, new products. Back then it was not unusual to trade modern cards for vintage as dealers could unload their modern cards faster. Traded several UD Griffey RCs for $100-$150 in vintage each. Same with Bonds, McGuire, etc. Worked on older Topps sets in NM-NM/MT condition and it wasn't hard to find these cards at 50%-60% Beckett prices at most cards shows. The pre-grading years were great for buying NM/MINT commons. If folks think the National Convention is crowded these days, it is nothing compared to the 1990s when the lines went on forever just to enter the show. Then trying to get up to a table was a challenge. Those were crazy times and when I think of all the unopened Topps, Donruss, and Fleer boxes that still exists, it is mind boggling. I still have a friend who is still sitting on his many 1987 and 1988 Topps Baseball unopened boxes because he thinks their value will come back. Some nasty "investments" took place back then.
<< <i>Traded several UD Griffey RCs for $100-$150 in vintage each >>
Hi Rich
You were wise beyond your years!
Thanx for sharing.
Did you buy tobacco cards back then?
My buddy has a picture of their display case circa 1995 but he's been unable to find it. If he locates it, I'll post it. You don't see displays like that anymore, not even at BBCE's national booth.
<< <i>I bought most of the new Hartlands in the $25-$30 range 6-7 years ago I believe. Like them a lot and have them on display although I doubt I will ever recover what I paid for them.
Going back to your original thread, I too experienced the boom from the early 80s to the mid 90s. Although I still have the Topps sets, hand collated, from those years (courtesy of collecting with my boys), I was fortunate to concentrate on vintage cards when so much attention was given to the modern, new products. Back then it was not unusual to trade modern cards for vintage as dealers could unload their modern cards faster. Traded several UD Griffey RCs for $100-$150 in vintage each. Same with Bonds, McGuire, etc. Worked on older Topps sets in NM-NM/MT condition and it wasn't hard to find these cards at 50%-60% Beckett prices at most cards shows. The pre-grading years were great for buying NM/MINT commons. If folks think the National Convention is crowded these days, it is nothing compared to the 1990s when the lines went on forever just to enter the show. Then trying to get up to a table was a challenge. Those were crazy times and when I think of all the unopened Topps, Donruss, and Fleer boxes that still exists, it is mind boggling. I still have a friend who is still sitting on his many 1987 and 1988 Topps Baseball unopened boxes because he thinks their value will come back. Some nasty "investments" took place back then. >>
I recall those days fondly too. I wish I hadn't limited my focus to mostly the 1969 Topps set as I surely passed over many gems from other years. I also regret I wasn't willing to pay over book price as I would have likely picked up a lot more high grade cards had I done so. The only cards I remember paying over book price for were the 1969 Bonds RC and the Clemente. I think I paid $40 to Randy Franeaux (sp?) for the Bonds (it graded 8 due to centering) and $100 to another dealer for the Clemente (it graded a 9). I wonder how many gems were destroyed by being pulled out and stuffed back into dealer binders over the years?
Nope, no tobacco cards but sure wish I had. There were a lot of them available back then, especially in VG-EX condition and certainly at prices that pale to today's. I was collecting 1956s to 1970s Topps baseball at the time and like I said, I had no trouble finding them in NM to NM/MINT. I would go to a big card show and have to leave a lot of cards in dealers' cases simple because I would run out of money to spend. The 1980s- mid 90s were good times to build nice vintage sets at reasonable prices. The exceptions were the HOFers' cards like Mantle, Mays, Koufax, etc. where the prices were high even for the times. The only negative was that I did buy some nice cards of HOFers that turned out to be trimmed when I sent them in for grading. If not anything else, third party grading has revealed the alterations that took place back then and has made us much more educated about the issue. Back then, unless it was obvious, you didn't pay as much attention to the possibility of cards being altered.
My heyday of collecting as a kid was late 1970s to early 1990s. Football from late 1970s to early 1980s, baseball for all that span. Mainly just ripped wax packs and traded with friends. We didn't bother building sets, just collected our favorite players. Mine were Walter Payton, Nolan Ryan, and Rod Carew.
Stopped collecting cards and coins after college (graduated 1991) and picked coins back up 12 years ago. Tried cards again around the same time for maybe a year, but the landscape had changed so much -- the concept of inserts was very foreign to me -- that I lost interest again. Picked up collecting the occasional pack of football cards to rip about a year ago. Mostly I look to either "rip and flip" (for a profit) or I trade with my 9-year-old son
Last year, I bought a 1979 Topps Walter Payton PSA 8, my first graded card. It was one of my favorite Paytons as a kid, and my childhood example has the expected corner and edge dings. I also bought a PSA 1997 UD Legends LeRoy Selmon auto, because I think that auto series is awesome and I lived in Tampa for several years prior to moving to Maryland.
I've been enjoying this thread, for the trip down memory lane and the history lessons.
Hi everyone
I’m resurrecting an old thread.
The problem is that some of the scans aren’t showing and if you’ve ever tried to edit an old thread since the format change? Really hard to see.
If you ever had time on your hands - it would please me to no end - if you would go back read where we started and we can see where I was going?
So, I’m back.
I would really appreciate if we could use this as a vehicle for discussion on anything “hobby?”
Next up - will be a discussion on publications - especially the influence of SCD.