My small contribution and hobby perspective for almost 30 years - Update July 5th - Resurrection
Stone193
Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Preface: this will be a bit long - but I sure want to give a bit of myself and what I collect - what happened to the hobby along the way - and some lessons learned.
This is less a show and tell and more my perspective on the hobby and what happened to me in buying wax.
We have many collectors who came "after" the contraction and "correction" in hobby prices and participation.
Let's go back to 1989. For what ever reason - the hobby was beginning to heat up and literally explode!
The introduction of 89UD redefined the quality of BB cards and both the boomers and investors got in.
To start - even the Japanese were drawn into the mix of investors. Many professionals by 1990 were scoffing up cases of Donruss and Fleer - hoping to fund their retirement homes and children's education. The national primetime news reported on a Japanese man who bought a 52T wax pack at Christies auction.
By around 1992 - the new card industry became a Billion dollar proposition and card shops were popping up in strip centers and malls all over the country.
Moreover - SCD subscriptions had exploded - and even the internet was just beginning to be utilized - most will remember Sportsnet - where for the first time some dealers were "speculating" on products and in some cases attempted to "trade" cases that they would never personally ever see?
So - without boring the old timers - I just wanted to set the table - so to speak - of what the hobby was like.
And - the explosion of the hobby affected - not only the price people were willing to pay for new product but there was a newfound affection for older vintage which many of us were introduced to around 1990.
I - personally did business with the BBCardKid - Mark Murphy, Mr Mint - Alan Rosen - and Bob Balanda - all which advertised in SCD.
Not having the internet meant dealing over the phone - no scans - no quick orders - just a small pic in SCD and the trust of the dealers - this put us on emotional roller coasters and all kinds of interesting dealings.
For an additional "edge" some were getting their SCD special delivered to get a "jump" on the competition. Many times I would see a gem in SCD only to call and have it gone, gone, gone!!!
Back in 1990 - a usual Saturday routine for me and my son found us hitting about 3 or 4 shops and 2 flee markets.
Moreover - many had read Alan Rosen's book (Mr. Mint's Insider's Guide to Investing In Baseball Cards and Collectibles) and were even using some of his "hyped" rhetoric - a guy at a flea market said to me - "whatever you don't see - ask me - I can get it for you."
That was right out of his book - just about word for word!
People were standing outside Sam's in hopes new product had come in - again - trying to capitalize on the latest "whatever?" E.g. in 1992 - Fleer's Rookie Sensations - were on fire! They only came in jumbo cellos - with a retail of 2 bucks - now selling for 5, 7 and up to 10 bucks! I even tried driving 40 miles outside of Augusta to score some product - but the word was out!
We wound up driving to another base 80 miles away to score a 24 count box at retail - if memory serves.
What a deal!
So - now - what am I doing? I'm going to see exactly what I still have left and do a little show and tell - and I'm neither bragging nor complaining since it was all part of the fun - the hunt - the good, the bad and the ugly!
Some of the stuff I'm showing is worth less money than when I bought it - and some stuff valued way above!
First - I picked up around 1993 - a 79T BB rack case - memory serves? Paid $777 for it at a Mr Mint Auction - thought it would go for more.
I sold most of a box to one of our members here - not sure how that evolved since I don't sell anything. So - I have 2 boxes left. The product came in good shape and one of the packs definitely has an Oz.
Now - what can make ya buy something one might have had absolutely no interest? The hype of a player - when Cal Ripken was working on the streak - I bought these in 1992 or 3 - before the price climbed but probably now less than I paid - I remember paying like $110 for these - bought them from Kruk:
In 1993 - I get an SCD and Murphy has an auction - I see a box of 76 and 77OPC - and the packs look nice in the small pic - I call him - he says - they're scary nice!
So I bid on both - yes - worth more today - I paid like $500 for the 76 and $250 for the 77OPC - I remember getting a 7 or 800 dollar invoice.
Why did I buy these? I have absolutely no idea - I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO FOCUS BACK THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's why - as a pause from wax - I say - over the years - I've learned an important lesson on the hobby: 1. Focus and 2. have a Budget.
I've got loads to discuss and would like to stop here - I hope to not just show what I've picked up over the years - but - like I said - add my perspective and experiences going to Nationals, card shows, shops, SCD, the net and so forth.
This can be such a great hobby - and as one of the old timers here - I truly believe a hobby will add years to your life - if one really enjoys collecting rather than just speculating.
This is less a show and tell and more my perspective on the hobby and what happened to me in buying wax.
We have many collectors who came "after" the contraction and "correction" in hobby prices and participation.
Let's go back to 1989. For what ever reason - the hobby was beginning to heat up and literally explode!
The introduction of 89UD redefined the quality of BB cards and both the boomers and investors got in.
To start - even the Japanese were drawn into the mix of investors. Many professionals by 1990 were scoffing up cases of Donruss and Fleer - hoping to fund their retirement homes and children's education. The national primetime news reported on a Japanese man who bought a 52T wax pack at Christies auction.
By around 1992 - the new card industry became a Billion dollar proposition and card shops were popping up in strip centers and malls all over the country.
Moreover - SCD subscriptions had exploded - and even the internet was just beginning to be utilized - most will remember Sportsnet - where for the first time some dealers were "speculating" on products and in some cases attempted to "trade" cases that they would never personally ever see?
So - without boring the old timers - I just wanted to set the table - so to speak - of what the hobby was like.
And - the explosion of the hobby affected - not only the price people were willing to pay for new product but there was a newfound affection for older vintage which many of us were introduced to around 1990.
I - personally did business with the BBCardKid - Mark Murphy, Mr Mint - Alan Rosen - and Bob Balanda - all which advertised in SCD.
Not having the internet meant dealing over the phone - no scans - no quick orders - just a small pic in SCD and the trust of the dealers - this put us on emotional roller coasters and all kinds of interesting dealings.
For an additional "edge" some were getting their SCD special delivered to get a "jump" on the competition. Many times I would see a gem in SCD only to call and have it gone, gone, gone!!!
Back in 1990 - a usual Saturday routine for me and my son found us hitting about 3 or 4 shops and 2 flee markets.
Moreover - many had read Alan Rosen's book (Mr. Mint's Insider's Guide to Investing In Baseball Cards and Collectibles) and were even using some of his "hyped" rhetoric - a guy at a flea market said to me - "whatever you don't see - ask me - I can get it for you."
That was right out of his book - just about word for word!
People were standing outside Sam's in hopes new product had come in - again - trying to capitalize on the latest "whatever?" E.g. in 1992 - Fleer's Rookie Sensations - were on fire! They only came in jumbo cellos - with a retail of 2 bucks - now selling for 5, 7 and up to 10 bucks! I even tried driving 40 miles outside of Augusta to score some product - but the word was out!
We wound up driving to another base 80 miles away to score a 24 count box at retail - if memory serves.
What a deal!
So - now - what am I doing? I'm going to see exactly what I still have left and do a little show and tell - and I'm neither bragging nor complaining since it was all part of the fun - the hunt - the good, the bad and the ugly!
Some of the stuff I'm showing is worth less money than when I bought it - and some stuff valued way above!
First - I picked up around 1993 - a 79T BB rack case - memory serves? Paid $777 for it at a Mr Mint Auction - thought it would go for more.
I sold most of a box to one of our members here - not sure how that evolved since I don't sell anything. So - I have 2 boxes left. The product came in good shape and one of the packs definitely has an Oz.
Now - what can make ya buy something one might have had absolutely no interest? The hype of a player - when Cal Ripken was working on the streak - I bought these in 1992 or 3 - before the price climbed but probably now less than I paid - I remember paying like $110 for these - bought them from Kruk:
In 1993 - I get an SCD and Murphy has an auction - I see a box of 76 and 77OPC - and the packs look nice in the small pic - I call him - he says - they're scary nice!
So I bid on both - yes - worth more today - I paid like $500 for the 76 and $250 for the 77OPC - I remember getting a 7 or 800 dollar invoice.
Why did I buy these? I have absolutely no idea - I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO FOCUS BACK THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's why - as a pause from wax - I say - over the years - I've learned an important lesson on the hobby: 1. Focus and 2. have a Budget.
I've got loads to discuss and would like to stop here - I hope to not just show what I've picked up over the years - but - like I said - add my perspective and experiences going to Nationals, card shows, shops, SCD, the net and so forth.
This can be such a great hobby - and as one of the old timers here - I truly believe a hobby will add years to your life - if one really enjoys collecting rather than just speculating.
Mike 0
Comments
I hope you didn't buy any xmas racks from Murphy back then! LOL!
Edit to add: You better keep those 79 boxes under lock and key if Paul is around!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Let me add one more - Ozzie Smith was on fire - a guy put a full page "buy" ad in SCD for centered Smith RC's.
I get a call from Bob Balanda - he got a case of 79T at a great price and he wanted to sell me a few boxes - now - at that points I needed the wax like a second nagging wife but since the price was right - surprisingly high by todays standards since I paid about 280 per - again - no focus = I'll buy just about anything!
The wax speculation really screwed with the prices in the 90s IMO.
"Let's go back to 1989. For what ever reason - the hobby was beginning to heat up and literally explode!"
What did actually make this explode then ? it coudn't have simply been the upper deck experience. Did the others, Topps, Donruss etc feel the need to market the products bigger though than what they had been doing previous to upper deck ? It is around that time I started seeing packs in many more stores than I had before, and this phenomana did indeed get me back in to the hobby for a few years then.
Words of wisdom. I'm now beginning to divest myself of items I collected which mean little to me. Only problem is that a lot of them mean little to everyone else!! Hey Doug, I still have 88 Donruss wax if you're still stockpiling.
By all means, please feel free to add more and share some great stories on how you obtained them and what memories came with it.
I'll be going thru rack and vending - and some of the worst pickups of what we will all call now - JUNK wax!
Hank asked a good question - wish I had a good answer?
<< <i>Awesome read and history. Brag away, that stuff is cool.
"Let's go back to 1989. For what ever reason - the hobby was beginning to heat up and literally explode!"
What did actually make this explode then ? it coudn't have simply been the upper deck experience. Did the others, Topps, Donruss etc feel the need to market the products bigger though than what they had been doing previous to upper deck ? It is around that time I started seeing packs in many more stores than I had before, and this phenomana did indeed get me back in to the hobby for a few years then. >>
Hiya Hank!
Wish I could remember what scholarly attributes were assigned to your question. Good query BTW!
I'll give you one good guess: the boomers with money were coming into their prime and their children may have stirred their sense of nostalgia - thus reintroducing them into the world of baseball cards - like in the song Old Days by Chicago:
Drive-in movies, comic books and blue jeans
Howdy doody, baseball cards and birthdays
Take me back to a world gone away
Memories seem like yesterday
I can't believe how many guys were buying cards back then who had kids around 7 or 8 yrs old.
So, with the increased demand - the companies went nuts and let the printing presses run and run and run and run and run.
To this day - no one truly knows how much product was pumped out in the early 90s. There's still way, way, way too much 89UD out there!!! And I don't ever think the product from 90s will ever be absorbed by the population - there's just way - way too much of it.
And - as I said - some with extra money - were speculating on cases - lucky for me - I didn't have the money - I know of guys who's garages were full of cases that were doomed.
By the mid to late 90s - the populace was jaded - tired of all the over-hyped and produced wax. So, the hobby contracted - from a billion a year to more like 300 million per yr business. And - of course - many, many companies fell by the wayside.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
"baseball cards and birthdays TAKE ME BACK......to a world gone away... (horns horns horRNSSS )
Classic Chicago. Great to have the cards, AND music to take us back sometimes. Thanks for the post here. Has put me in a good mood. Must now break out the CHicago 'albums' AND some older cards.
1989 was the start of my hobby rebirth and I havent has as good a year since! Im not complaining either. I enjoy it each day but for different reasons.
Keep up the great work!
Robert
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>Mike --with all the neat stuff you collect it is amazing your wife has kept both you and all that stuff around for so many years >>
Thank you for starting it.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Thanks for sharing your perspective...took me back also to those days and bringing my kids with me to the card shops and shows. Looking forward to the next chapter.
Jeff
Back around 1992/3 - I was caught up in the idea that I have to "corner the market" on stuff - guys like the Meyer Brothers in SCD were selling "bricks" and "bricks" of RCs! More on RC's later.
So, when the BBCardKid had some 81T boxes for sale - I picked one up - but for what ever reason? I bought a 3 box rack case also! Why? I have absolutely no idea.
Lesson: again "focus" - I don't have to corner the market on everything - and if one is cool - two isn't necessarily better.
IMPORTANT Corollary to the Lesson: even if given the deal of the century - with respect to budget - "One can go broke SAVING money!"
Chasing wax, chasing RC's, and subsequently chasing "chase" cards found its roots in the early inserts and parallel sets which we'll talk about when I bring out the junk in the trunk. I think it caused some "obsessive" and compulsive buying in the early 90s. Again - more later.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>Awesome thread Mike. Keep posting. I still have one of those 79 racks, but I'd like to take a few more off of your hands.
Hi David!
I would never have mentioned this if you hadn't.
You're the only personal to buy anything from me - I don't sell stuff. As I said in my rather long narrative - I wasn't sure how the sale started since I don't sell.
The first rack out of the box was given to a long gone member who expressed their depression at Christmas time and I sent him a rack. The rest went to you I believe?
Thanx for the kind words - as to everyone else!
I know we all have our stories.
I want to read more about the speculation buying.
<< <i>I'm not asking so you can sell but more out of curiosity. Do you have any racks with stars on top as well that you own in your collection? I wont say that I never sell things in my collection but there are certainly a lot of cards I own that I refuse to sell, even if it meant upgrading. My cards come with stories as well that are worth far more that the actual high value that they bring. For a moment there, I with the posting of all your neat vintage games, I was beginning to wonder if you even had any cards. lol. I think its great when people share their collections on here. I don't see it as bragging when theres stories that come with the pictures. >>
I have a Canseco PSA graded card that you will never have. They stopped grading them because it was an illegitimate company, but 'they' graded one. Guess which one Foo.
To chime in with your story, I'll reminisce about 1989 to play along with your thread (no intent of hijacking, just adding a couple of small stories).
I can remember buying a couple of foil cases of 89 Upper Deck from one of the dealers in SCD that advertised with small print in the back of the catalogs - (cases were presold around $700/case - roughly $1/pack). I wore that guy out trying to get updates on shipment. This was by far the largest order I had ever made (20-year old newlywed) and I thought for sure that my money was gone.
Well, the cases did arrive and I was one of the first in my area to have them. I sat up at card show in Nashville and sold these for $1.50 per pack while other dealers (that actually had the product where asking $3.00/4.00 per pack. I was the dreaded 'low ball' guy that the dealers didn't like and ended up selling out of the packs. It was a crazy good time for card shows. Actually, at my 1-year anniversary, my wife was helping me setup at a card show. There was a guy that perched a chair right in front of my table and he was buying Griffey's for $3 each as they were pulled from kids opening packs at my table. This guy eventually ended up leaving the hobby after some deals gone south (pre-internet/ebay).
I can also remember calling the SAM's wholesale clubs around my area asking when their shipments from Consolidated Freight arrived. I wanted to get their next batch of 89 Upper Decks.
Later in 1989, Bowman hit. Again, I was one of the lucky guys that got his hands on a few factory cases. I went to a show (not as a dealer) and sold 2 factory cases within 15 minutes (literally walked in, told someone I had them, and SOLD!!). I didn't make much money on them, but just to get rid of them that fast was what me and my wife wanted. She didn't want me stuck with those...haha. I'm sure if I had those today, I'd be wishing I had sold them back in the day.
Ahhh. Good times. I still pick up a box of 89 upper deck every now and then.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i> I'll reminisce about 1989 to play along with your thread (no intent of hijacking, just adding a couple of small stories). >>
I'm more than happy to have you and others chime in!
Great stories - I've got a bunch - but I'm saving them for when I take pics.
Thanx for sharing David. BTW - I used to set up in a small show since it was not stressful. I made a bunch of dough selling parallel cards! And my son had the fun of opening a zillion packs!!!!
Love the thread. Never get tired of looking at unopened.
Let me know when you want me to take those 79 rack boxes off your hands.
Looks like the reorganization has begun. That is assuming you were organized at some point.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Not having the internet meant dealing over the phone - no scans - no quick orders - just a small pic in SCD and the trust of the dealers - this put us on emotional roller coasters and all kinds of interesting dealings. >>
Good times.
Awesome thread and thanks for sharing, Mike!
Here are just a couple of things that I remember from those times:
#1) 1989 Bowman baseball came out with some hype with the oversized cards but didn't do much. Than 1990 Bowmans, than 1991 Bowmans just not going over well compared to some other products. So 1992 Bowmans hit the Walmarts & Sam's. I remember walking by all these cases & boxes & saying "no way Jose". Another not so good move on my part!
#2) In 1988 & 1989, if you opened up a Beckett, every product had UP arrows! It didn't matter what you bought, within a couple of months, you were making money! I was buying more singles than unopened products & had this list of players that I wanted to invest in. As I was spending my monthly budget, I found that by waiting another month to buy a card it could cost me a lot of money. So I talk my wife into pulling out a nice chunk of savings & off to the local card shop I go. Unfortunately, the shop I went to was ripoff Smokies of Las Vegas (Later convicted of fraud plus). He managed to sell me VG's for MINT prices. My fault for not doing enough homework.
#3) In 1988, Basketball & Football vintage unopened boxes & cases were so cheap it was a crime!
#4) I beleive it was 1989, when the Nolan Ryan rookie shot up so fast. It went up hundreds of dollars within a 6 month span and continued until about 1991 when it peaked at $1600, if my memory serves me right?
<< <i>ripoff Smokies of Las Vegas >>
Good stuff Mike!
I will be covering "bricks" of RC's later on - we ALL got caught up in that cycle!
Smokies still owes me 99 bucks!!!!
Having did a little research for him, I would estimate ebay sales price to be near 10k right now and thats only because of the product from the late 70's. The rest of the stuff, he would be lucky to break even or even lose a little. He wont sell since he doesnt want to "lose" money. He has been offered 4k for all of it in the past, but he is holding out for 8-9k, which he will never get.
People who invested in 70's material during the card "heydey" are doing quite well if they still have the items. People who invested in the late 80's stuff are generally still working on retirement. I had a guy come into the store Saturday with a "collection" he had bought. 99.9% of it was 88 Donruss, 89 Topps and the like, with most of the stars pulled. I estimated about 5k in cards. He said he would be willing to take $100 for it. I told him the bad news and he asked what I would be willing to pay. Jokingly, I told him a buck. After a few moments of thought and showing him some examples of what I sell that stuff for (I have a box of 25k mint commons from that era that I have a $10 price on). He took the buck...now I have 5,000 more for my next box
<< <i>People who invested in 70's material during the card "heydey" are doing quite well if they still have the items >>
Hi Danny
I agree - you'll get your money back and then some. Some more than others - I have some - now - junk wax that fills the very air that could be used for something else.
I - like others - got caught up buying - like it was stock. Lucky for me I didn't have a lot of money to spend or I'd be very unhappy right now.
Most of the early wax of the 90s was purchased to open with my son - as you say - it's practically not worth the paper it's printed on.
Besides "speculative wax" - the next favorite of mine is the topic of the "Rookie prospects."
I want to stack up some of the stuff - take a pic - and everyone can have a good laugh!
Here we go with some more dumbass buying during the rookie craze.
The BBCardKid had some 84T boxes - so I thought a couple would be cool - not sure what drew me to this year - perhaps just trying to get wax from this era?
Keep in mind - back then - more, more, more was better, better, better. There was a shark frenzy for many collectors. I think - from a speculative POV - we were afraid of missing he boat? What if down the road - guys who bought loads - had loads to sell or trade for even more stuff? Ya had to be there!
So, it's no wonder that I had to buy this! Have no idea why - don't even really remember when I bought this one?
I was asked before by Foo but didn't address it - are there stars? I didn't check everything but what I did find, I posted on CpaMike's thread.
Lesson? Speculating - for me - is like going to the track. Sometimes I win but mostly I lose. I learned - it was far better to keep collecting as a hobby and have fun since speculating seemed more like work - and I already "had" a job!
<< <i>I'm not asking so you can sell but more out of curiosity. Do you have any racks with stars on top as well that you own in your collection? I wont say that I never sell things in my collection but there are certainly a lot of cards I own that I refuse to sell, even if it meant upgrading. My cards come with stories as well that are worth far more that the actual high value that they bring. For a moment there, I with the posting of all your neat vintage games, I was beginning to wonder if you even had any cards. lol. I think its great when people share their collections on here. I don't see it as bragging when theres stories that come with the pictures. >>
Hey Foo - I apologize for not answering this question. I posted some racks on CPAMikes thread on unopened stuff - I believe - or some thread on unopened.
Hope I'm not overstaying my welcome - it's just that I have so much to cover - wax, vending, racks! Junk wax galore! And the speculative RCs! Buy'em by the 100s!!!!!
I'm jumping ahead - I was going to cover some of the vending I've picked up but I thought it would be fun to get to some of my "junk" wax.
I'm sure those that were there will attest to what a great time it was!
Inserts in 1992 reigned supreme!
Way too many to recount - one of my favorites? The Homerun Heroes only found in 92UD Jumbo packs.
If you recall, I talked about the 92F Rookie Sensations from the Jumbos? Well, another was the Team Leader subsets that was ONLY inserted in the Fleer Rack Packs.
In each rack, one had a chance to either get a Roger Clemens Career Highlights Card or a gold foiled Team Leader Card.
Since I opened quite a few - I can tell you it's almost always in the last/bottom rack and if one tries to "fan" the section - if one sees a "dark" green line? It's a Team Leader.
Well - they caught fire just like the Rookie Sensations - and - of course - both crashed just as quickly as they rose.
Fast forward to around 1995 (?) and the 1992 Fleer Bkb racks caught fire - the key was Jordan - it gave a bit of a rush to the BB cards but not anywhere like the Bkb's.
The retail was - I believe around 1.99 - and the Bkb's were going for upwards of 10 bucks during this "craze." I was in Washington DC for a continuing education course - went to a card shop in Silver Springs and the guy was asking $15 per!!!! Even $5 for the BB.
So, what did I have somehow accumulated? 61 racks to this day! Not sure how - but my wife used to find them where people weren't looking - I believe at a drug store chain.
Now - one might ask - why not sell then? For the pack rats and collectors? Probably not motivated but also who knew the bottom was gonna fall out?
Note: These are Rack Packs folded up - so they may to some look like "jumbos"
So - what's the lesson here? Hell if I know?
Seriously - what happened during these times - the climate was so different than anything younger people could hardly fathom today. At best I can - maybe - allude to my feelings on investments/speculation.
Wait till I talk about the 92F Ultra BB and Bkb - talk about a treat? And my experience at Sam's - if it weren't for a fast thinking clerk at the store - a couple of guys were ready to kill each other!
Keep them coming as I'm lost after 1986.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
+1
Although I do remember the vintage cards my local stores use to sell were all beat up and Ive always been a stickler when it comes to condition.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
Jeff
Now let's go to the world of really, really, really shiny stuff that hit the shelves in 1992 - 1993.
In 1955, if you were to ask a kid what kind of cards did he pick up? He would say a rectangle one? It was regular? It was sideways (55Ts and 55Bs)?
But it all started to change with the introduction of the hologram in 89UD, add the full bleed cards of 92F Ultra and 92T Stadium Club, UV coating - as a start.
But, then the terms started flying at us - roaring at us like a 747 on final approach - lenticular goes back to the 40s - and we thought that was hi tek but then the chrome and Refractor came out and people went nuts!!!! You can add Atomic refractor and Dufex - and let's not forget Pinnacle put diamond chips in some cards!!!! Wasn't it Zenith?
So - how did you respond to the ultimate in short printed cards - the Topps Finest - with a limited number of Refractors?
People were paying 20 bucks a pack for these gems! I totally stayed clear due to the high cost. But did get pulled into one deal - I wanted some new Topps in 1993 - and Rotman told me they would give me a box of 1993 Topps Finest Bkb if I bought 6 boxes of regular Topps - I did - and as you can see - I never opened it!
I guarantee you it's not worth as much when it first came out!
So, if we go back to SCD in the early 90s - we were bombarded with guys selling the latest "this" and the best "that" and the can't do without - "the other!"
But, before I illustrate - let's fast forward just a bit to the beginning of the end IMO:
The baseball strike started to take the edge off the craze - collectors felt jaded - and some started collecting Beanie Babies, Starting Lineups and Pogs! Just joking - but I think you got the idea. They were skeptical and people started to realize: THEY'RE PRINTING THIS STUFF IN THE BAZILLIONS!!!!!
What also didn't help?
The baseball card shop had contracts with Fleer and Topps e.g. They had to buy so many cases of regular brand to guarantee that they would get the really shiny stuff that all the kids really wanted.
So? No biggie - right?
Well - wrong.
Here's the hypothetical and enter the big sellers at shows. Let's say Mr BB Card-shop paid 20 bucks for a box and was selling them for 28 bucks - a more than fair ROI. But, no soap. They were having trouble selling their product. WTF?!
Then Mr BB Card-shop goes to a big show like Gibraltar and sees his brand selling for 15 bucks! FIVE BUCKS BELOW COST!
So - the boxes are still fresh from the factory and on the shelf and already extinct with respect to current retail. Yes - that's what happened - and at that point Mr BB Card-shop doesn't know whether to sh!t or go blind!
People who live in this area and were around in the early 90s know well what I refer to here - and it went on all over the country.
Now - back to the push. It seemed like every other page had these kinds of ads - and we're talking about - sometimes - 2 to 300 pages!
So - what do you think?
Did we buy the hype? I think so. We got caught up in the mania. We had visions of selling this stuff some day down the road for way, way more than we paid. Enough for now.
/quote "So - how did you respond to the ultimate in short printed cards - the Topps Finest - with a limited number of Refractors? " /q
In the 1992-94 time frame I remember going on weekly trips with my wife to massive mall card shows in and around NJ sometimes two different shows a day; Woodbridge Mall, Cherry Hill Mall, Freehold Mall, Raritan Center, Seacaucus Mall, hundreds of dealers with many hundreds of tables.. '93 Fleer Baseball boxes for under mid $20's a box and then the Finest foils and refractors arrived and the world as we collectors knew it changed, and sadly forever.. so sadly
rrpb76
My heart during that time, however, was still with the "vintage," which for me was mid to late 70's and early 80's Topps baseball. I remember that "vintage" being prohibitively expensive at the time, so I didn't buy much. At card shows (which as those have attested to, were held seemingly every weekend at either malls or local hotel conference centers), the Brett rookie, for example, was going for well over $200 ungraded. The Molitor rookie was going for over $100 ungraded. The topps traded Ripken was going for $150. I didn't have that kind of money at the time to spend on one card, so I didn't buy much of it (thankfully) except for an ungraded Topps Sandberg rookie (I paid $30 for it and years later, realized it was trimmed and burned it in my fireplace) and an ungraded Topps Gwynn rookie (paid $25 for it and still have it in my collection today). It was cheaper and more gratifying to open the modern packs.
I am new here so I thought I would introduce myself. I found this a fitting thread to post my first thoughts as I collected in the late 80's and early 90's. I was a dealer for a time as well. My story is probably similar and familiar.
I amassed a large collection of cards from that time period. Favorite players of the day being Dale Murphy, Will Clark, Eric Davis and Barry Larkin. In 1989 I decided to step up my business by investing in case quantities than the usual single cards or boxes at a time. So I bought 3 cases of Topps from that year and a case of Fleer factory sets.
In my history, it went more like this: By 1989 the market was so flooded, (however I was a little young to know what was happening to the industry), that prices just seemed inactive and card shows were more like lodges for retired men of the Freemasons. Collectors became more despondent to the market and not many buyers out there to maintain business well enough. I dealt mostly in new stuff as I did not have the equity to invest realistically in older stuff. So around 1992 I quit and went to school etc.
About a year ago I received a box in the mail from my father as my uncle just died. In it was a collection of his baseball, football, basketball and hockey. Mind you my uncle was much older, and the cards reflected that. Nothing was in perfect shape, but it was great to see 1969's, 1970's, 71's and a large batch of 1976 football. Yes, 2 Payton rookies came out of it. It was this batch that revised my enjoyment of collecting.
As I scoured eBay through the cards people were selling, clearly it was a different business than in 1989. Chase cards were not Don Mattingly or the star card. But rather parallel sets, autographs, limited editions, 1 of 1's, errors, blank backs, color tests, proofs, relics, and in general, retro and high graded cards. Collecting is fun and value always seemed an added bonus to me.
I recently visited back home and pulled out all the cards in my parents attic to see what was there. Yup. Stuff from 1985 right up to about 1993. Give or take a year. I sorted through as many people have since went into the hall of fame (Dawson, Larkin, Yount, etc). What was left did not seem to be valuable. Almost less than in 1989. I called up a dealer and asked if he was interested in them - for free. He kindly said no. He recommended donating them. Eventually Craigslist became the logical means and so someone ended up with 37,000 commons from those unfortunate days.
Since I have been looking at new stuff (and old stuff), I wonder with the new stuff if the same amount is printed as back in 89 or 90, but spread out through all the different sets, subsets, parallels etc. Its anyone's guess, but it just seems that whatever good card I pull, there is always one that is a little better. If its a parallel card, there is one with a different border. I got that. Oh there is the chrome version. Ok, I got that. But there is the refractor. Ok got that. Yes, but did you get the limited refractor? Woops, missed that one. But yours is not signed! OMG! Did not see that! And is yours graded a 10 or better? Yikes! You get the point.
Ok I get it. Its a different animal all together. And you either swim with the sharks or try something else. I think someone mentioned - focusing your collection is the way to go.
Anyway, I have read a bunch of threads on here and happy to contribute and mostly learn.
Your story is neither unique nor terribly egregeous. We all went thru that IMO during the early 90s.
It was I who talked about the two most important elements to enjoying the hobby and not getting caught up in the OCD syndrome.
1. Focus
2. Budget
Keep in mind this is only my opinion and I don't want to come off as pontificating. I've been collecting for enough years to know what works for me.
I collect for fun and don't want anything to deter me from that "end."
I look forward to your insights and experiences. We all learn from each other here - and there's a wealth of knowledge and experience on our forum.
Don't be a stranger and good luck!
<< <i>Welcome mygotta!
Your story is neither unique nor terribly egregeous. We all went thru that IMO during the early 90s.
It was I who talked about the two most important elements to enjoying the hobby and not getting caught up in the OCD syndrome.
1. Focus
2. Budget
Keep in mind this is only my opinion and I don't want to come off as pontificating. I've been collecting for enough years to know what works for me.
I collect for fun and don't want anything to deter me from that "end."
I look forward to your insights and experiences. We all learn from each other here - and there's a wealth of knowledge and experience on our forum.
Don't be a stranger and good luck!
Thanks stone193! As far as "focus and budget", it makes sense to me. I can easily fall into the "gotta get everything" mode so I have to reel back and remind myself what I want and like. Yes, I know my story is very common. I read the book Mint Condition which informed me of what happened in my absence and found it is frustrating yet fascinating read. But I have also resolved to that its all new to me again and rekindles my childhood a lot which is what I love about it the most. I was able to go to Cincinnati for the first time and see the Reds play. That was like icing on the cake and brought me back to baseball in general. So its good to be back
Thanks for the welcome and certainly share my experiences and collection as the time arises.
Sports Net! That was the name of that thing. I remember it just starting to take off in the early 90's. Too funny...
Most of my investments turned out badly, but I had a fun and that's all that mattered back then...
My own horror story: About 1992, I bought a pack of 1980-81 Topps Basketball and pulled out the most beautiful Bird/Magic I or anyone had ever seen. I mean this thing was a screamer. I was getting offers from dealers left and right. This was before PSA was starting to take off so I didn't think about grading it.
I liked the card, but my real passion at the time? Unopened Wax! So after listening to various offers for the card, what did I decide on? I traded this card for an unopened box of 1984 Donruss. At the time they were going for around $500. A sure fire investment that could only go up. LOL. For what it's worth, it was a very clean box.
But that Bird/Magic was so gorgeous. AT LEAST a PSA 9, and if it wasn't a 10, I don't know what was
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Mygotta - just want you to know I wasn't marginalizing your experience by saying it wasn't unique. I wanted you to know that you're in good company and no permanent damage was done; we're still here and enjoying our hobby - a little wiser - and hopefully - a little more savvy?
We all have our own personal stories - and I could talk for days on 1992 alone - so I'm going to take my own hobby advice and apply it to my communication: Focus!
So, it's the spring of 1992 and every day I went to Sam's - hoping they got their cases of Fleer Ultra - it was an instant hit!!!
I have to say - the full bleed photos were a beauty!
But, all the brands coming out had way too many subsets - not to mention parallel sets! Too many inserts and subsets and not enough resources eventually ended in a glut of product!
92F Ultra has "All-Rookies" - "All-Stars" - "Award Winners" - "Tony Gwynn"
At the same time - I have to say - Topps Stadium Club didn't have any subsets.
Finally, I head to Sam's one morning - and when opening - word is out! They have some cases of Ultra BB.
We head to the section where they're being brought out and two guys start pushing each other - each accusing the other of assault! Oh the humanity! This is cardboard!
Enter a very astute and wise clerk - he stops the fray and tells everyone to stand in a line - he then tells each person to walk up to the cases - one at a time - take ONE box and keep moving in a circle - I have to say - we felt very silly - but it worked! Not a drop of blood was shed that morning - so the only "full bleed" was in the these cardboard gems.
Here's what I still have left - I definitely had way too much cardboard on my hands!
I think I remember paying like 40 per box? I would be lucky to get 5?
Lesson? Again - not sure what or why I was doing this? Keeps coming back to Focus. And I can't ignore the "motive?"
Investment and ROI. Keep in mind we had no idea that the presses were running 24 - 7!
And - no one knew the production numbers - Tuff Stuff in many articles did try to let us know:
Moreover, the topic of investment and who was "buying" was addressed in the different publications:
They tried to address speculation, production runs, who the players were and "how" we would purchase in the future.
Mike Berkus was a superb hobby contributor and many of the "senior" hobbyists knew and respected him.
He wrote an article about Sportsnet and prophetically wrote on how we could hypothetically control the purchase and disbursement of items - he was talking about the "future" Paypal e.g.
I stand with many from this era not to whine or complain or feel "had" - rather to say we got caught up in a moment - expended various amounts of money - had a great time - and have a bunch of cardboard to show for it. The ROI may not be there but we do have lots of fond memories.
<< <i>Good stories and I've enjoyed what you all have to contribute to my experiences.
Mygotta - just want you to know I wasn't marginalizing your experience by saying it wasn't unique. I wanted you to know that you're in good company and no permanent damage was done; we're still here and enjoying our hobby - a little wiser - and hopefully - a little more savvy?
@stone193. I understood what you said and I did not take it that way at all. I understand it was not unique. Probably as common as the wax packs of the day. In fact, I have found enjoyment opening a box of $10 wax from 87. I think its one the last classic looking designs Topps released. 89 might be a close second, but I think opening 2 cases of that wore out my appreciation for it. lol. I did recently buy a box of 92 Donruss and found it a rather bland assortment. But for $10, it was more exciting opening the packs.
In retrospect, I almost feel for $10 or $20 for 86 or 87 its almost more worth it than $120 for a box of 2012 topps jumbo. Almost
I found the nice thing about opening a 20 year old box is a that a rookie will never have potential to be a star anymore. So the weeding process is quite easy. Now its just a matter of bridging the gap from when I quit to now. I really like the Heritage set so I have been slowly getting sealed boxes from now back to 2001 when they started it. I also like this years Archive set. A nice throw back to the years before.