Do dealers get better grade becasue they are dealers?
JWAR
Posts: 83
I have had 3 separate coin i own and sent in raw to PCGS and they came back all three MS65 i consigned each of them on 3 separate occasion to a dealer within a month of them being graded and he resubmits them in the PCGS holder and they came back 1-2 points higher.
MY question is why wouldn't PCGS have graded them the right grade the first time? Could the dealer be getting better grades because he submits as a dealer? Any ideas? I know it sounds crazy but three times now I have seen this happen to my coins why would they not get the right grade the first time?
MY question is why wouldn't PCGS have graded them the right grade the first time? Could the dealer be getting better grades because he submits as a dealer? Any ideas? I know it sounds crazy but three times now I have seen this happen to my coins why would they not get the right grade the first time?
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Comments
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>i consigned each of them on 3 separate occasion to a dealer within a month of them being graded and he resubmits them in the PCGS holder and they came back 1-2 points higher. >>
Does he resubmit every coin you consign to him? Does he examine the coins before sending them in for you?
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster!
<< <i>I'd sure like to know who the dealer is,so that I can send my whole graded collection to him or her on consignment! >>
Pm me if you want to know. I have nothing against the dealer i'm just shocked that a dealer gets upgrades on coins PCGS just saw within the last month. Why not grade is a MS66 or MS66+ the first time...unless they are trying to get more resubmissions....hummm
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck. >>
Well said.
Your eye..my eye..the dealers eye makes no difference.....it's the same coin they are grading!
<< <i>I have had 3 separate coin i own and sent in raw to PCGS and they came back all three MS65 i consigned each of them on 3 separate occasion to a dealer within a month of them being graded and he resubmits them in the PCGS holder and they came back 1-2 points higher.
MY question is why wouldn't PCGS have graded them the right grade the first time? Could the dealer be getting better grades because he submits as a dealer? Any ideas? I know it sounds crazy but three times now I have seen this happen to my coins why would they not get the right grade the first time? >>
No, not all dealers
What coins are they BTW, like to see.
<< <i>All of these excuses are LAME. If the coins "same" coins are sent in twice and receive different grades...something is wrong!
Your eye..my eye..the dealers eye makes no difference.....it's the same coin they are grading!
I agree if it was years apart i could see the grading change but not the same coin within 1 month
<< <i>
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
.
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster! >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
Then enlighten us. Prove to us with undeniable evidence that dealers get an advantage over everybody else. I've been doing this for a long time and I've been on both sides of the submission peanut gallery and I haven't seen anything in my career to back up your claim.
Or did the dating scenario hit a little too close to home?
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Are you sure they are the SAME coins?
What coins are they BTW, like to see. >>
Yes they are my coins so i know they are the same coins
<< <i>I agree if it was years apart i could see the grading change but not the same coin within 1 month >>
Are you thinking that a person can assign a grade to thousands of coins in the space of one month and then can be expected to assign the exact same grade to every one of them if resubmitted the next month?
My World Coin Type Set
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<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
Then enlighten us. Prove to us with undeniable evidence that dealers get an advantage over everybody else. I've been doing this for a long time and I've been on both sides of the submission peanut gallery and I haven't seen anything in my career to prove your opinion.
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster! >>
>>
There is and never will be undeniable evidence. I would wager I have been in the game longer than you! Let's just say gut feeling along with experience! >>
So you are unable to back up your claim. At least tell us this...how many coins have you submitted for grading in your life? I'll bet it's only a fraction of what most authorized dealers have sent in in the last two years.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>All of these excuses are LAME. If the coins "same" coins are sent in twice and receive different grades...something is wrong!
Your eye..my eye..the dealers eye makes no difference.....it's the same coin they are grading!
And this comming from a dedicated kool-aid collector
Edited to add: Its possible that your dealer diped the coins to brighten them up? PCGS loves luster above all else imo.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
Then enlighten us. Prove to us with undeniable evidence that dealers get an advantage over everybody else. I've been doing this for a long time and I've been on both sides of the submission peanut gallery and I haven't seen anything in my career to prove your opinion.
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster! >>
>>
There is and never will be undeniable evidence. I would wager I have been in the game longer than you! Let's just say gut feeling along with experience!
<< <i>
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster! >>
Funny, I thought exactly the same thing. The word "pablum" came to mind.
Edit: to clarify, when it's a 50/50 coin like it could go either 64 or 65, it will most likely go a 65 when they send it in.
<< <i>All of these excuses are LAME. If the coins "same" coins are sent in twice and receive different grades...something is wrong!
Your eye..my eye..the dealers eye makes no difference.....it's the same coin they are grading!
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
Which may explain why a dealers who "know how to put packages together" are sometimes able to get better grades for themselves and sometimes customers or friends that "ride piggy-back".
Send 12 mixed siiver proof types coins thru at once. Even better, how about 5 original sets pre-1916? The graders will "get in a groove" that may only lasts 3 minutes, but its a group of possibly interesting coins. Sorry, Wash 25c are not a lot of fun for jaded warrioirs. Call it synergy. Interest is attracted AND maintained. It's a groove.
Or I've got a group of 50 nice early S mint hand-picked over the last month. All white and cracked (or sent for regrade) and all 20 MS65
25 MS66 and 5 MS67 sent as a group. How do you organize them?
65,65,.....,66,66,......67,67 Nah
65,66,65,66,66,66,67,66,65,66,.... can't fully explain using permutations/combinations, regression analysis, Fibonacci series, or whatever. But the idea is to provide a slope, a cascading effect, knowing certain coins will be ride the wave and others randomly discarded because of what they sit between on both sides. Bot 50 S-mints are a hell of a groove.
It's easy to get a hit or 7, or in homogenous high-end flashing group
like this (rather than O-mints) maybe so many hits as 10!
50 coins at $20 for a $1K total.
Calculate how many upgrades you need to make money with market value arbitrarily 65-115, 66-265, 67-565
Assume buy and sell cost differential $20 grading fee per coin.
or 65-10, 66-43, 67-7
The graders can take any curveball package. But a groove is smooth and open and what flows.....
Do the arithmetic.
edited to add:
LOL, doing arithmetic sometimes isn't as easy as it looks. As in 10+43+3 = 60, not 50
<< <i>Talk about opening up a can of worms with that question! I am convinced that there is absolutely no dealer bias with regard to grading results at PCGS. If I thought otherwise, I would not submit coins myself or would have a trusted dealer do my submitting. There are a great number of variables present in the game of "grading arbitrage", including but not limited to just what graders are present at a particular show, uniformity vs non uniformity of the coins submitted, timing of a submission( especially during a show ), whether or not the graders got "lucky" the night before, etc.etc. I basically see grading as a sine wave, with periods of better grades on average followed by periods of worse grades on average. It is extremely difficult, probably impossible, to predict when the periods of better grades on average are going to occur, and how long that period will last. I have personally witnessed some of the very best graders in the business go 0 for 40 at one show, then go 10 for 25 on upgrades at the next show. >>
Sine wave
And the other factors are right on. The vets have been seeing it for decades. As Moose says - 0-40, 15-25.
or 4-40 and the size of the hits pays 4K in fees and 45K more.
I have not experienced any consistent benefit from submitting as a dealer, although there are patterns in coin grading that can be used to maximize your chances of getting good grades.
JWAR - Let me guess, did you give him these 3 particular coins because you thought they were undergraded? If so, the results sound more like a case of "selection bias" than "dealer bias".
In any event, as a professional grader (long ago) and as a dealer that has submitted many coins over the course of the last 25 years, I've never had any reason to believe that dealers have an unfair advantage when submitting coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I have had 3 separate coin i own and sent in raw to PCGS and they came back all three MS65 i consigned each of them on 3 separate occasion to a dealer within a month of them being graded and he resubmits them in the PCGS holder and they came back 1-2 points higher.
JWAR - Let me guess, did you give him these 3 particular coins because you thought they were undergraded? If so, the results sound more like a case of "selection bias" than "dealer bias".
In any event, as a professional grader (long ago) and as a dealer that has submitted many coins over the course of the last 25 years, I've never had any reason to believe that dealers have an unfair advantage when submitting coins. >>
Do the graders even know who's coins they are grading unless it is some kind of spectacular rarity?
He could not prove with irrefutable evidence that they do, just as you could not prove they don't. With whom does the burden of proof rest?
I too have had coins (high grade toned Morgans) that I tried at least 2 or 3 times in the distant past that came back the same grade over and over, then sold off to a major dollar dealer, then saw the exact coin in a major auction several months later bumped 2 full points and now worth multiples. Random luck of the draw......I didn't use the right set up coins......I didn't pay for express service......I'm not a major dealer/marketmaker/large submitter.......?? Who knows, who really cares anymore?
Maybe I'm superstitious but whenever I sent a group of coins I use this order. The lowest grade to the highest grade, my reasoning is they grade one then the next one looks better so they grade it higher. If there was one coin I thought might 91 then I put it last so it doesn't taint their minds about the others. I'm sure others use different reasoning but that's what I did
But, if you ever want to take me out for a nice craft beer or two, we can sure joke around about the issue
Wondercoin
<< <i>Do dealers get better grade becasue they are dealers? >>
Not only do they get better grades, but when they accidentally send in a crappy coin, they get it exchanged with a nicer one that some collector sent in. No extra charge.
<< <i>Coinbuf - "grades change all the time".
Ok with it no, I like you feel that as I'm paying for a service I should get the very best service possible and not something less because I dont line the coffers each week or dont know so-and-so. But that would be in a perfect world and we dont live in a perfect world, or at least I dont. I just found your reply funny as the op was writing about the possible inconsistancy/favortism given by a TPG that you have on more than one occasion professed great admoration for. Anyway getting back to the op's question, what would stop a TPG from steering certain submissions to particular graders, or the opposite sending collector submissions to less experianced or jr graders which could lead to a higher rate of inconsistancy. Just food for thought, myself I've stopped sending in submissions for the most part(one submission in the past 6 yrs). If I like a coin I buy it and dont worry about what any TPG might say, this is a hobby for me not a living.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
1st 1873-cc Trade, really nice au-55, probably dipped but well within market acceptance for holdering. Sent it twice, both times came back altered surfaces. Sold to the dealer in baltimore, 1st chance he scored the 55 it deserved.
2nd 1841-c $5.00 PCGS OGH 40 cracked out submitted , still a 40. sold it to same dealer, bang 45 on his first chance.
3rd 1937 Proof Buffalo PCGS 65 tried for regrade ony to get the 65 again, sold it, dealer gets 2 point upgrade to a 67.
Now it is possible that "dealer" is not necessarily getting a benefit as the submitter, but that he is working the coins to get the best grades, although the coins looked the same when I saw them in new holders. Just a question to ponder.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
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https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
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<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
I never thought I would speak this way here! That is the biggest crock of sh*t I have ever heard!
Then enlighten us. Prove to us with undeniable evidence that dealers get an advantage over everybody else. I've been doing this for a long time and I've been on both sides of the submission peanut gallery and I haven't seen anything in my career to prove your opinion.
I am not going to post a comment other than I agree with the original poster! >>
>>
There is and never will be undeniable evidence. I would wager I have been in the game longer than you! Let's just say gut feeling along with experience! >>
So you are unable to back up your claim. At least tell us this...how many coins have you submitted for grading in your life? I'll bet it's only a fraction of what most authorized dealers have sent in in the last two years. >>
How did I miss this? I can not back up my side any more than you can back up yours!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>i consigned each of them on 3 separate occasion to a dealer within a month of them being graded and he resubmits them in the PCGS holder and they came back 1-2 points higher. >>
Does he resubmit every coin you consign to him? Does he examine the coins before sending them in for you? >>
He never said that the consignment dealer was also the original submitter.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do dealers get a fundamental advantage because they are dealers? No. Why do some submitters seem to do better on their submissions than others? Because they have more experience with the process and have a "feel" for what works better where and when. Relate it to casino gambling. Why are some people chronically degenerate gamblers while others can make a living off of it? Not because they cheat or they get an unfair advantage but because they know when to pounce and when to quit and they don't rely on blind luck.
You can also use dating as a legitimate metaphor. Why does Guy A seem to have a date every Saturday night while Guy B is always home on Saturday nights watching SNL? Could it be because Guy A asks out at least 50 women during the week and all he needs is one to say yes while Guy B got rejected by the one and only gal he asked out in the last three months? It's very likely. Grading submissions work the same way.
Grading is subjective and grading is performed by humans and humans never see things totally objectively. A coin you own might appear excellent when you view it in the morning but view the same coin in the afternoon or when you're in a different mood and you might think of that coin differently. That happens to everybody and graders are no different. >>
Which may explain why a dealers who "know how to put packages together" are sometimes able to get better grades for themselves and sometimes customers or friends that "ride piggy-back".
Send 12 mixed siiver proof types coins thru at once. Even better, how about 5 original sets pre-1916? The graders will "get in a groove" that may only lasts 3 minutes, but its a group of possibly interesting coins. Sorry, Wash 25c are not a lot of fun for jaded warrioirs. Call it synergy. Interest is attracted AND maintained. It's a groove.
Or I've got a group of 50 nice early S mint hand-picked over the last month. All white and cracked (or sent for regrade) and all 20 MS65
25 MS66 and 5 MS67 sent as a group. How do you organize them?
65,65,.....,66,66,......67,67 Nah
65,66,65,66,66,66,67,66,65,66,.... can't fully explain using permutations/combinations, regression analysis, Fibonacci series, or whatever. But the idea is to provide a slope, a cascading effect, knowing certain coins will be ride the wave and others randomly discarded because of what they sit between on both sides. Bot 50 S-mints are a hell of a groove.
It's easy to get a hit or 7, or in homogenous high-end flashing group
like this (rather than O-mints) maybe so many hits as 10!
50 coins at $20 for a $1K total.
Calculate how many upgrades you need to make money with market value arbitrarily 65-115, 66-265, 67-565
Assume buy and sell cost differential $20 grading fee per coin.
or 65-10, 66-43, 67-7
The graders can take any curveball package. But a groove is smooth and open and what flows.....
Do the arithmetic. >>
This is known as setting up a submission. Take a ms66 1942 Walker. Send it in with 19 other ms66s and it'll likely come back as a 66 or possibly a 65. Send it in with 19 ms64s and it may get a 67.
<< <i><<< Then enlighten us. Prove to us with undeniable evidence that dealers get an advantage over everybody else. >>>
He could not prove with irrefutable evidence that they do, just as you could not prove they don't. With whom does the burden of proof rest? >>
I'd guess the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
<< <i>I am surprised that no one has even brought up the fact they have 2 SEPERATE grading rooms. One is for the BULK Submissions and the other for the collectors. I know I have felt the way the OP feels, and I do believe everyone here has at one time or another. I bought a 64d type C off a member here who sent it in twice only to get the grade Au58. After buying it from this member I sent it in under secure plus with my vouchers, it came back in a MS63 Holder. It was already shown on the 25th Anniversary set that the coins that went in under the BULK submissions did MUCH better than those that didn't, WHY? I have no clue, to me a coin should be graded right NO MATTER if you use bulk or regular. Someone said that there is less steps for grading using the bulk submissions, I say there should be no difference in the amount of time the graders spend looking at these coins no matter how there submitted. I will keep using our host for grading but as a human I will always wonder if Bulk is better than regular...............Enjoy
I doubt that a monster box of ASEs is seen by 2 graders AND a finalizer. OTOH 100 ms 1889-CC Morgans would probably get extra scrutiny.
3 grade jump? In a 64 submission you'd be lucky if that 66 came back a 66 rather than a 65. A coin like that if it is superior to other normal 66's would fare best in a grouping of
average 66's so that it stands out.
Are you thinking that a person can assign a grade to thousands of coins in the space of one month and then can be expected to assign the exact same grade to every one of them if resubmitted the next month?
No. But what I do expect is for 80-85% or better of those to come back the same grade as the previous month. When the variance slips down to the 60-70% range then I think it's way too much. When the first dealer grading contest was conducted the top scorers were in the 80-85% range. With 3 graders eyeing the coin, getting 80-85% repeatability should be even easier.
I pretty much agree with with Col. Jessup and what others have said that there are methods to help tip the scales. Even Mr. Eureka mentioned he has no "unfair advantage" over other submitters. I would interpret that to mean he has a "fair" advantage that's he's "earned" over the years.
I used to sit and watch Martin Paul gobble up 15-25% of the value of major auctions back in the 1988-1989 era. He seemed to get some pretty good grades along the way which a large part was no doubt due to his grading prowess. I always had to wonder if his monster submissions with 30, 40, 50, 60 or more coins worth thousands each didn't tend to sway the grading just a tad. He had to be one of the best customers of the TPG's. If I was considering buying something back then and felt it might be optimistically graded, I'd check the serial number as well. If it was part of very large submission that would be a strike. Obviously serial number tracking only works for one TPG's coins. Too often I've sold off coins that would not upgrade for me only to see the next guy get the score. If there was no way to get a "fair" advantage then why do some large coin firms track who the individual graders are each week? It's all part of the "fair" advantage earned by years of trench warfare. Back in the 1980's I knew dealers that would petition the TPG's if a coin didn't come back as expected. In one case I was split 50-50 on a coin with such a dealer. That coin came back the same grade. But a few days later, and after a few words of persuasion, it was upgraded. I didn't mind the extra $3,000 in my pocket.