1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro Errors

I'm interested in buying and/or trading for some of the Marlboro error cards if anyone is looking to get of some of theirs. Graded preferred, but I'm also interested in raw cards.

Thanks.

Comments

  • IronmanfanIronmanfan Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭
    BST Thread
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  • CounselorCounselor Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭
    Tried to send PM but looks like you have turned off. I have 2 Green tint errors and also have red tint and black box in the mail on way to me, all are in Exmt to Nrmt and with a couple better.

    Let me know if interested.

    My email is bbarnettnmartin@aol.com

    Thanks

    Brian
    Hank Aaron Basic Set Registry

    Looking for upgrades to Aaron Set


  • << <i>BST Thread >>



    The marlboro cards seem to be black sheep of error cards. There is very little published about the cards. I know that board member jacksoncoupage has created a page to help list and describe some of the variations. I think the way that BGS now labels cards "black box", "green tint" & "red tint" is probably a direct result of his work, but there really hasn't been much new discussion on the cards in several years and I've never come across any information on the actual methods used to edit the Marlboro sign off of the card. I know nothing about the printing process, but I was hoping some experts would be able to describe how the editing would make it onto the card. Was it done to the original photo, the printing plates, post production, or some other method? I'm looking to buy or sell for some of the cards, but I would really like to find out more about the cards, so I didn't want to just post this on LGBT boards. Thanks.


  • << <i>Tried to send PM but looks like you have turned off. I have 2 Green tint errors and also have red tint and black box in the mail on way to me, all are in Exmt to Nrmt and with a couple better.
    >>




    I'd love to see the cards. PSA has done this card a disservice by only labeling them Ad on Scoreboard, Ad Partially Obscured or Completely Blacked Out. It's a mass over simplification that they have a very difficult time applying consistently to the cards. I've seen error cards labeled as Completely Blacked Out and the common card listed as Ad Partial. There are even several different cards that can be labeled "Green Tint", "Red Tint" and "Black Box" so those labels are still a bit autonomous.
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 2,989 ✭✭✭
    I actually have several variations, but not the Marlboro ad variation

    I have the black box, the green tint, the red tint, then the partially obscured red tint (there is a difference)

    Not sure which have been accepted or not as true variations, but considering it took 20 years for them to be even noted anywhere (not that it wasnt know about), it might take a while longer
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  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭
    Scans would be good.....
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2016
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,956 ✭✭✭
    Here is the one that I have...

    image


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  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭
    Thanks swartz1. Her are the 3 I have but not sure how well they will show up. i think I read some where there are as many as 6 or 8 degrees on this card:

    image
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2016
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al


  • << <i>Here is the one that I have...

    image >>




    That card is commonly called a "Green Tint Black Scribble", but there isn't any black scribbling actually on the card. There is a blob of red tinting around the letters in Marlboro and that is covered over by a green tinting. PSA would usually apply the "Ad Partially Obscured" label on it. I've seen BGS label it both a "Green Tint" and "Marlboro Ad on Scoreboard" recently. It is considered one of the rarer versions of the Marlboros, but there are other similarly rare Marlboro cards too.


  • << <i>Thanks swartz1. Her are the 3 I have but not sure how well they will show up. i think I read some where there are as many as 6 or 8 degrees on this card: >>




    The card on the left is the common card that was mass produced. PSA labels that card as "Completely Blacked Out". The problem with that is that they also label some of the error cards as "CBO". It would be like PSA calling the Ripken FF "Scribble Over Error" version the same as the "Black Box Over Error" because the error is covered over in black on both cards. BGS also labels some of the errors and common card as the same thing too. There are way more than 6 or 8 different Marlboro cards.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭
    Then that's what I want to see....show them off someone
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2016
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al


  • << <i>Then that's what I want to see....show them off someone >>



    The two other cards that you posted are both pretty rare. I can't tell for sure what green version that is, but all the green tints other than the "box"versions of the card are rare. The card in the middle is one of the clearer versions of the card. People usually pay more for the cards with less tinting because of the PSA "Ad on Scoreboard" designation with it's associated higher book price.
  • image

    The top card pictured is Labeled by BGS as "Green Tint" and the same card they label as "Marlboro Error" in the next image. Then PSA has a common card labeled a "Ad Partially Obscured" followed by this card which PSA labeled "Ad Completely Blacked Out". It seems the experts may be a little confused.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,322 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Hatorade
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2016
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭
    Hatorade and anyone else,


    I have a bunch of these (raw) in all different variations....


    I was waiting to grade them, but I basically will sell them all if people want to buy them quick ...

    Ill try to post them on here for you guys to see....


    thanks

    rich
    richtree@gmail.com
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • @Bishop

    The image on the left is interesting. It appears to be a blacked-out version with a discolored center. Do you have a larger or close-up of the sign area scan available?

    Also,

    1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro Variations Blog
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • Does anyone have any idea when during the printing process each variation appeared? Or at least in what order?

    For reference, you could use the Ripken FF variations.
    looking for mint He-Man rookies
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭
    The small dark box versions with the light circle near the upper right are pretty tough.
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭
    I got 2 early error cases and the Randys all changed "boxes" so to speak right when the error boxes ended and the new boxes began.....


    I had them all separated, but I never got around to scanning them all.

    Tonight I will scan all of the "odder" ones I have in holders.....


    It's like the Ripken errors --- I had about 100-200 of various variations and the Yellow line version is the hardest one to find.....I sold the yellow line ripkens for practially nothing, and only have one left....


    Glad I kept it for now...maybe Ill make money on that one day., lol
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”


  • << <i>I got 2 early error cases and the Randys all changed "boxes" so to speak right when the error boxes ended and the new boxes began.....


    It's like the Ripken errors --- I had about 100-200 of various variations and the Yellow line version is the hardest one to find >>



    I didn't quite understand your post. What do you mean that they changed boxes and ended as the new boxes began? Sorry, maybe I'm a little slow. In regards to the Ripken FF yellow line card; Is there only the one vertical yellow line on the right side of the card or are there other vertical yellow lines too? If there are others, they may be very light and tough to see.

    Thanks
  • GoducksGo

    You are going to have a tough time selling that card for that price. That version in PSA 10 will barely go for your asking price, if that. Good luck though.


  • << <i>The small dark box versions with the light circle near the upper right are pretty tough. >>



    Actually, as far as the Marlboro errors go any "box" variation is pretty common. The box variations are still much more rare than the common blacked out cards though. And that's why I think its terrible that PSA/BGS label some of the box cards the same as the common. The population reports for these cards are pretty useless.
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The small dark box versions with the light circle near the upper right are pretty tough. >>



    Actually, as far as the Marlboro errors go any "box" variation is pretty common. The box variations are still much more rare than the common blacked out cards though. And that's why I think its terrible that PSA/BGS label some of the box cards the same as the common. The population reports for these cards are pretty useless. >>



    There is a light circle on the top right of some of the "box" versions. They are not as easy to find as the "box" versions without said light circle.


  • << <i>There is a light circle on the top right of some of the "box" versions. They are not as easy to find as the "box" versions without said light circle. >>



    I have a pretty good chunk of Marlboro cards in my collection and the cards listed on jacksoncoupage's website (great website by the way) as "green box", "red box", "red box with bubble" and "black box" make up about 40% of my collection. So those version seem to be the most common error variations. You are correct in that box cards with a bubble are less common than the similar versions without it or at least that has been my experience too.
  • One more than one occasion, I have opened wax boxes of 1989 Fleer that included Ripken FFs, corrected Randys (full black out). The Randy Johnson card went through it's numerous changes before Fleer corrected the Ripken. Also, keep in mind that Fleer used two different printers which is what I think may explain the "green" corrections vs. "red" corrections.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭
    image

    I have a dozen or 18 more or so....none crystal clear, but the scanner makes it harder to see......


    **I also had a note that pink dot on the blue part of the expos symbol was very rare....

    I have more and more all over the place....


    I also have had the checklist with positions which I am pretty sure less then 3 confirmed copied exist -- some say 1 or so

    image

    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”


  • << <i>**I also had a note that pink dot on the blue part of the expos symbol was very rare.... >>




    image

    There are several dot patterns that are consistent on some of the variations. I'm pretty sure the one you are referring to is like this image. I call this the 2 dots on the "b" pattern. The three colored M logo has always looked like the letters e l b to me and the 2 dots are on the "b" part of that combo. There are some cards that only have what looks like the lower of the 2 dots and that may be the card you mentioned. It’s mainly found on the box with bubble cards if I recall correctly, but it is on them pretty consistently. Another consistent dot pattern is shown on the middle card linked by bishop. The white dot in the diagonal blue line just to the left of Randy's head shows up consistently on those cards with little editing performed to them. There are many, many others as well.


  • << <i>Also, keep in mind that Fleer used two different printers which is what I think may explain the "green" corrections vs. "red" corrections. >>



    image
    image

    I recently noticed that Fleer actually made what appear to be 2 versions of the "Green Tint Black Scribble variation. The most noticeable difference is the red circle just above and between the "M" and "a" in Marlboro or just to the right of Randy's left ear. There are several other subtle differences in the cards as well. The amount of the green tinting seems to vary on each of the cards too, starting with the 2 cards above with little of the green tinting down to the cards below with a significant amount of the green tint on the cards. I have several cards with and without the circle that have an amount of green tinting that falls in between the light ones above and the dark ones below. Is there any possibility that each site could have made similar attempts at editing the cards, with just a couple minor differences being evident and that as the editing process went on whatever applied the green tinting was able to cover the ad more? I'm sorry the images are so small. When I figure out how to post larger images the red circle becomes easily visible.

    image

    image


  • << <i>I have more and more all over the place.... >>



    It looks like there are 3 of the common cards in that scan, but I'd be interested in buying the error cards from you.
  • Is there any way to tell from the outside of a box what version might be possible?

    I know that Steve has wax and rack boxes on his site. Thanks!

    Robert
    Robert
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 2,989 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is there any way to tell from the outside of a box what version might be possible?

    I know that Steve has wax and rack boxes on his site. Thanks!

    Robert >>




    I would say probably not since I dont think its even possible to tell which Ripken FF is from a box. I can say that the last cellos I bought from BBCE, all had the error variations, but not the full Marlboro in it, but a version of the red
    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭
    Any word from the PSA guys about this card, anyone spoke with Joe? These card do sell for a premium, but it seems that no authorities want to charge (PSA, Beckett) about values, scarcity, etc.
    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • Would anyone with printing knowledge from the 80's and 90's please elaborate on how Fleer went about editing these cards? Was the editing done to the proofs or the plates or somewhere else? I've never seen anyone talk about the actual editing process for these cards so even some speculation would be great to hear. Thanks.
  • I like the rare pyramids version the best.

    image
  • I'm pretty sure that card is the ultra rare Camel Cigarettes version.
  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭
    I just found these from a fresh clean box.

    I believe the Johnson is the "green tint" version.

    Tom (tsalems1) is selling the boxes on his new website.

    OPC Baseball

    Check out his site it is really well done and lots of cards.

    Joe

    image
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