We are still Penn State

JHS5120

As a 2012 Penn State graduate, season ticket holder, vigil attendee and proud member of the Penn State community I am impressed at how well the university and community has come together in the face of adversity. The tragedy that we have all witnessed and the actions of Jerry Samdusky had almost torn apart my beloved school. I had traveled there recently and I was shocked to see the thriving atmosphere despite the recent hatred toward the students, faculty and staff. Penn State is not football, Penn State is an institution made possible by its members. Happy Valley was named such for a reason.

I am not here to talk about Joe Paterno. I admire the man as a coach and a humanitarian, but am disappointed with his actions (or inactions).

With the recent news of recruits and players staying with the university it has become evident that the strength of the Penn State is unrivaled. I cannot imagine another institution holding together like Penn State has over the past months. They are a shining example of a community coming together under harsh circumstances.

I cannot stress more how proud I am of my school and how much I admire the strength of the players, students and community.

I know this will bring out the wrong crowd, but that's okay, we are still Penn State.

orioles93

+1 very well said. The players have shown tremendous strength and loyalty to their school and have remembered the main reason why they are there. Because the education and things penn state can offer you. I can't wait to see hackenberg, breneman and the other 2013 recruits who have again said they are committed to PSU. It's amazing. We Are!

mcadams

I thought "We Are" was the battle cry at Marshall?

orioles93

<< <i>First off, I don’t remember any real criticism of the faculty or students or the athletes. I think we all unanimously are in support of them. >>



You would think and hope so, but unfortunately that is not the case. I have had numerous occasions where i am wearing a simple PSU shirt and people have said very rude things to me about being a pedophile, abuse enabler, etc. JUST because i am a student and wearing a shirt! So no not everyone is in support of the students and the athletes the way you would hope so.

There have also been reports of athletes being ridiculed in public which is terribly wrong.

JHS5120

<< <i>First off, I don’t remember any real criticism of the faculty or students or the athletes. I think we all unanimously are in support of them. It seems like you and many other Penn State affiliated members have been trying to stir some glorified solidarity in your delusional sense of martyrdom. No one is persecuting you or the Penn State students, et al. There has been rampant criticism of Paterno and the administration, yes, and damn rightly so as far as I’m concerned.

You all claim that Penn State and the area and the students don’t define yourself by football yet you all have your panties in a bunch over what entirely amounts to criticism of mainly ONLY Penn State football and the administration that enables the football program’s authority.

What disturbs me is that you “admire” Paterno as a “humanitarian” and are merely “disappointed with his actions” as if he were guilty of some recruiting violations or cheated on his wife rather than turning his back on the RAPING AND MOLESTING OF CHILDREN. If this is what Penn State teaches its students, and this is what you learned, and this is how you have your sense of priorities aligned in your mind, then I say let the whole place freakin’ burn down…lock, stock and barrel. >>



I whole heartly disagree with you. Half of the articles and posts I have read have critisized the community more so than the actions of this one man. Yes, I do admire Paterno as a humanitarian and yes, I am disapointed. Would you prefer if I used stronger words? Appalled? Disgusted? Ashamed? I am, but more so of Sandusky, not Paterno. Joe Paterno let down his students, athletes and the university. It's disappointing.

mcadams

OP- I admire what you're trying to say and do. Regardless of how you feel right now, 99% of football fans want to see PSU survive this. A few suggestions:

1) Stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. You are trying to build support by making it appear that you and other PSU students have been victimized by media/chatrooms/etc. etc. and that we're all out to get you. Thats just not true. I also haven't read any news articles that blamed students for anything.

2) While the rest of the country wants PSU to survive this (we really do), we do NOT want to see bravado and chest-thumping coming from you or your football team right now. Not yet. What we want to see if the students/factulty/football team fully condemn the people responsible, including Joe Paterno. As long as you continue to portray Paterno as not being at the core of the problem...the healing process will take longer and longer. Terms such as "humanitarian" can not be said in the same sentence as Joe Paterno. When PSU acnowledges that fact, then the rest of the country will rally along side PSU and support your football team, and we'll all feel proud that you're back in the fray.

perkdog

Without question you should be proud to be a recent graduate, and without question you should continue to support your school but for the right reasons. The right reasons is dealing with this recent tragedy and moving forward by accepting the punishment and hoping nothing like this ever happens again. Your wrong by touting Paterno as a great humanitarian, a great man wouldnt have shielded the school by hiding child abuse, you have no argument there the way I see it. The people that are most responsible in this whole mess are gone and that is the first step next is not ever being an apoligist for the university or anyone involved in the abuse or cover up. The punishment stands and the university will survive and people will continue to enroll and get involved in the athletics, also people like yourself will continue to be proud graduates.

larryallen73

<< <i>I whole heartly disagree with you. Half of the articles and posts I have read have critisized the community more so than the actions of this one man. Yes, I do admire Paterno as a humanitarian and yes, I am disapointed. Would you prefer if I used stronger words? Appalled? Disgusted? Ashamed? I am, but more so of Sandusky, not Paterno. Joe Paterno let down his students, athletes and the university. It's disappointing. >>




Since you are a young kid I'll give you a pass on this but you sound totally clueless about Paterno.

orioles93

Behind where his statue once stood read 3 words. Coach, Teacher, and Humanitarian. I still admire him as a coach and a teacher, as he was a great coach, and believed dearly in academics and teaching his players. But i can no longer view him in the humanitarian part. That part has vanished in my mind and many others. He was not the perfect humanitarian everyone once thought he was.

JHS5120

The only victims are the children; to suggest otherwise is foolish in my opinion. Was Paterno a great man? No. He had a fatal flaw that tarnished his entire legacy entirely. Do I admire him? In many regards, yes. There is nothing egocentric, clueless or absurd about that; but again, I am not here to talk about Paterno. I've only met the man a handful of times, so I am not one to talk about his character.

However, I am hopeful to see Penn State heal over the coming months. I am aware that the wounds will be reopened come Curley and Shultz's trails (and probably Spanier). I am proud that we are looking forward and not back. The Penn State community will come out stronger than ever.

Goot

<< <i>I am proud that we are looking forward and not back. The Penn State community will come out stronger than ever. >>




Then do so behind closed doors. Rebuild and reassess the status of the school and the football program with humility and come out even stronger in the future. Your school is not dealing with an event such as the tragic loss of Marshall's football team in that plane crash, you are dealing with a shameful disregard for human life which was aided by administrators at the school. The general public is not sympathetic with the Penn St community right now and to complain about respect is the wrong move. To chest thump about your school by starting a new post on a forum where the topic has been discussed ad nauseum will win you no fans. You have seen the responses in this thread... I think that point is proven. You want respect? Go away. Be forgotten (as much as possible). Go through these next 5 years trying to just maintain a semi competitive team. Then come back and start a new legacy. It will be long, it will be tough, but if the school and community take their lumps and go through this the correct way then it will all be worth it in the end.




Figure I should add...far from a Penn St hater. My uncle, multiple cousins and various family friends have all attended Penn State and my Dad grew up about 2 hours from Happy Valley. I have a Penn St shirt and hat hanging in my closet right now.

JHS5120

<< <i>

<< <i>I am proud that we are looking forward and not back. The Penn State community will come out stronger than ever. >>




Then do so behind closed doors. Rebuild and reassess the status of the school and the football program with humility and come out even stronger in the future. Your school is not dealing with an event such as the tragic loss of Marshall's football team in that plane crash, you are dealing with a shameful disregard for human life which was aided by administrators at the school. The general public is not sympathetic with the Penn St community right now and to complain about respect is the wrong move. To chest thump about your school by starting a new post on a forum where the topic has been discussed ad nauseum will win you no fans. You have seen the responses in this thread... I think that point is proven. You want respect? Go away. Be forgotten (as much as possible). Go through these next 5 years trying to just maintain a semi competitive team. Then come back and start a new legacy. It will be long, it will be tough, but if the school and community take their lumps and go through this the correct way then it will all be worth it in the end.




Figure I should add...far from a Penn St hater. My uncle, multiple cousins and various family friends have all attended Penn State and my Dad grew up about 2 hours from Happy Valley. I have a Penn St shirt and hat hanging in my closet right now. >>



You misunderstand my post and the situation entirely. We are dealing with a tragic loss; the victims and the actions of Jerry Sandusky should not be understated. We are not looking for any sympathy, beyond that for the children involved. Nor are we looking for respect, especially from anonymous forum posters.

No one is complaining, in fact the opposite. I am proud of my school and the community. I am not here to add anything negative to the situation, there is enough of that. I am here to show pride in a community that has remained strong through a tough time.

JHS5120

<< <i>The point is, now is not the time to be expressing your "pride". It's a time for somber reflection and assessment. I'm not suggesting that you should feel ashamed in any way but feeling "proud" is not something anyone wants to here from someone associated with Penn State right now. Especially someone that would dare laud Paterno as a "humanitarian". >>



Again I disagree. There will be an eternity to reflect upon Sandusky's actions. The lessons learned over the past several months will resonate throughout a lifetime.

The dust is finally settling. I now can see a community of alumni, students and athletes united and a university moving forward. There is plenty to be proud of. I believe that it is always a time for reflection and assessment, but that does not negate the pride I have for Penn State.

JHS5120

<< <i>You seem to want to focus on Sandusky as if you want to isolate the issue and consider all of this the act of a fluke individual that caused all this. But the real problem here is Paterno and the institution of Penn State, that was systemic and built up over decades. Sandusky is a sick individual who engaged in abhorrent behavior. To most outsiders, as deplorable as his actions were, they understand that it was done by the mind of a very sick individual who probably couldn't help himself. What they don't understand is how Paterno and the Penn State administrators would engage in a cover up of Sandusky's crime, let alone further enabling it. To just about everyone outside of Penn State, including myself, that is the WORST part of all of this.

Feel proud all you want, but it's not Sandusky's action that you need to reflect upon, but that of Joe Paterno. If you can't see that, then once again, you are in serious denial as to what's going on here. >>




I don't know why you would defend Sandusky, it's actually sickening. Sandusky fooled a lot of people; social workers, policemen, attorneys and yes, school administrators. I am appalled and disappointed by everyone's inaction in this situation. All knew, none acted.

The worst part in all of this is the rape of young children, don't you see that? I am not the one in denial.

Stooge

<< <i>The dust is finally settling. I now can see a community of alumni, students and athletes united and a university moving forward. There is plenty to be proud of. I believe that it is always a time for reflection and assessment, but that does not negate the pride I have for Penn State. >>

Did I just read where you said "The dust is finally settling"? Are you serious??? The dust is still rising from where I am sitting. This absolutely is far from over. Sandusky hasn't even been sentenced yet and you say the dust is finally settling.

Let me ask you this...if one of your Sons or Brothers were a victim, what would your comments in this thread be?

JHS5120, if I were you, and this is only a recommendation, I would strongly reconsider your comments towards Joe Paterno as he turned out to be a sick and twisted Man just like Sandusky. Because in my opinion, having known about what had taken place at Penn State, is just as bad as having done it himself.

There is a reason the NCAA gave Penn State a 5+ year sentence.

Take care, as these will be my only comments in this thread.

Paul.

MCMLVTopps

OP...

PHILADELPHIA -- Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials hushed up child sex abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky more than a decade ago for fear of bad publicity, allowing Sandusky to prey on other youngsters, according to a scathing internal report issued Thursday on the scandal.

"Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said Louis Freeh, the former director of the FBI who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

After an eight-month inquiry, Freeh's firm produced a 267-page report that concluded that Hall of Fame coach Paterno, President Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

Freeh called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

"In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse," the report said.

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal," Freeh said at a news conference.

Asked directly if Paterno's firing last fall was justified, Freeh answered, "Yes."

That you can refer to Paterno as a Humanitarian, the dust settling and how impressed you are at how well the university and community has come together...in the face of ADVERSITY is pathetic!! Adversity?? While barely mentioning the UNTHINKABLE HORROR done to those children, you post about how proud you are about PSU. Better you had said nothing. One wonders what you would post if one of those raped children were your son? Happy Valley - NOT!!

I hope those mentioned in the Freeh report are punished heavily and that the Univesity suffers untold monetary damages for condoning this SICKENING conduct. All this for your beloved football program. Better your alma mater had the balls to do what was right early on, expose this insidious beast and do right by those who had no voice.

Go put a little water on that tree they just planted in place of your Humanitarian's statue.

JHS5120

<< <i>OP...

PHILADELPHIA -- Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials hushed up child sex abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky more than a decade ago for fear of bad publicity, allowing Sandusky to prey on other youngsters, according to a scathing internal report issued Thursday on the scandal.

"Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State," said Louis Freeh, the former director of the FBI who was hired by university trustees to look into what has become one of sports' biggest scandals. "The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized."

After an eight-month inquiry, Freeh's firm produced a 267-page report that concluded that Hall of Fame coach Paterno, President Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

Freeh called the officials' disregard for child victims "callous and shocking."

"In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse," the report said.

Paterno "was an integral part of this active decision to conceal," Freeh said at a news conference.

Asked directly if Paterno's firing last fall was justified, Freeh answered, "Yes."

That you can refer to Paterno as a Humanitarian, the dust settling and how impressed you are at how well the university and community has come together...in the face of ADVERSITY is pathetic!! Adversity?? While barely mentioning the UNTHINKABLE HORROR done to those children, you post about how proud you are about PSU. Better you had said nothing. One wonders what you would post if one of those raped children were your son? Happy Valley - NOT!!

I hope those mentioned in the Freeh report are punished heavily and that the Univesity suffers untold monetary damages for condoning this SICKENING conduct. All this for your beloved football program. Better your alma mater had the balls to do what was right early on, expose this insidious beast and do right by those who had no voice.

Go put a little water on that tree they just planted in place of your Humanitarian's statue. >>



I can understand all this hatred and confusion. I don't blame you. Believe me, I was like you too until I read the Freah report myself. I didn't feel comfortable posting until I had. I learned one important lesson from it, humanity is flawed. At least a dozen people knew about Sandusky yet no one did anything to stop him. To lay them blame solely on Paterno is a crime in itself. The ones who are guilty will be punished, the victims will receive compensation (no amount is enough in my opinion) and the University will continue forward.

But again, I am not here to talk about the people involved, but rather the people who were not; the athletes, the students and the community. Everything I said I meant. I am proud of those people. I am proud of how Penn State has handled the situation since the Freah report. We have all witnessed a tragedy. I think that much can be said. I am happy to see a community united again.

I do agree with one thing though. I shouldn't have started this thread. I knew that it would be misinterpretted by those who don't fully understand the situation. I'm sorry.

perkdog

<< <i>
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should only come out in support of Paterno if you would feel the same way if YOU, or a direct member of YOUR family, were also raped by Sandusky. If you don't, then you're merely a hypocrite. If you do, then you're deranged, or much more forgiving that I could ever be. >>



This is EXACTLY what I been saying in every thread even where there is the smallest amount of apoligies for Paterno or where anyone says "Other than this he was a good man"

One guy who I dont feel is getting enough hatred is that POS COWARD Mike McQueery, I seriously cant understand it either. This guy actually saw a kid getting abused in a shower and did NOTHING to stop it, I want this guy to go to jail and get smashed in the you know what!

JHS5120

<< <i>

<< <i>
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should only come out in support of Paterno if you would feel the same way if YOU, or a direct member of YOUR family, were also raped by Sandusky. If you don't, then you're merely a hypocrite. If you do, then you're deranged, or much more forgiving that I could ever be. >>



This is EXACTLY what I been saying in every thread even where there is the smallest amount of apoligies for Paterno or where anyone says "Other than this he was a good man"

One guy who I dont feel is getting enough hatred is that POS COWARD Mike McQueery, I seriously cant understand it either. This guy actually saw a kid getting abused in a shower and did NOTHING to stop it, I want this guy to go to jail and get smashed in the you know what! >>



FINALLY!!!! Something I can agree with!

Everyone seems to forget that there was a witness! Where has McQueary been? Why has he not answered for his 11 years of silence. He put Paterno and the entire administration in a completely avoidable situation.

baseball, you're absolutely right, I am deflecting attention and blame away from Paterno. Not because I have a disillusioned saint-like impression of him, but simply because he is not the purpose of this thread. I simply wanted to share that I am proud of how well the community has handled the recent events - there is nothing wrong with that. Also, read the Freah report. There are some big factual errors in what you have been saying.

JHS5120

<< <i>1) These monstrous crimes were perpetrated by some within the football program. >>


By 2001 Paterno had already fired Sandusky for his involvement in a 1998 incident involving a state police and child services investigation.



<< <i>2) Paterno was the head of the football program. >>


He was just the football coach. Yes, he had influence over the program, but he still had his superiors.



<< <i>3) Sandusky was someone who directly reported to Paterno. >>


Like I said, Paterno already fired him for being a perv.



<< <i>4) Paterno was the most powerful man at Penn State. >>


Hardly. He was the most famous but anyone could tell you the university considered him on his way out by then.



<< <i>Nobody cares that janitors knew. >>



You're right. The janitors that witnessed Sandusky should not be blamed for any of this. The police, service workers and DA who knew however should be arrested.

During that 1998 investigation I mentioned earlier Sandusky ADMITTED that he showered and hugged kids while naked in the shower with them. The state police knew, the child services knew and the DA knew. Yet none of them acted. In fact, the only one to lift a finger was Paterno firing him. Again, not to defend him. Just saying. Link

People knew for years who Sandusky was and no one stopped him (including Paterno). I agree, Paterno deserves critism for his "success with honor" mentality, but I also think that the people who's jobs it was to identify and report sexual predators also deserve the blame. Also, if you want an interesting read, google Tom Corbett's involvement in the whole thing. It's shocking.

Goot

No need for this.

"darren rovell ‏@darrenrovell

The guys @SmackApparel say this new Penn State T-shirt is red hot in Happy Valley http://say.ly/rtT3S3T "

JHS5120

<< <i>I don't see any factual inaccuracies based on your response. You talk about "firing" Sandusky as being the end all solution. It obviously wasn't. As if that wasn't bad enough, he "fired" Sandusky yet Sandusky had carte blanche access to the football program and facilities. Makes tons of sense. Yeah...I'm sure Paterno had no power over that either. >>



I agree. It obviously wasn't an "end all" solution, but who could've known Sandusky would use the facilities to rape children? With two investigations into the man, what more could Paterno have done beyond firing him?

JHS5120

<< <i>Oh, I don't know. Maybe a simple thing like restricting his access to Penn State's facilities. >>



Again, no one could've known.

I am sorry or continuing this argument about Paterno. That honestly wasn't the point of this thread. He obviously has much at fault and could've done more.

Goot, I could argue both sides of the NCAA sanctions, but I think this thread has had enough tangents.

JHS5120

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't see any factual inaccuracies based on your response. You talk about "firing" Sandusky as being the end all solution. It obviously wasn't. As if that wasn't bad enough, he "fired" Sandusky yet Sandusky had carte blanche access to the football program and facilities. Makes tons of sense. Yeah...I'm sure Paterno had no power over that either. >>



I agree. It obviously wasn't an "end all" solution, but who could've known Sandusky would use the facilities to rape children? With two investigations into the man, what more could Paterno have done beyond firing him? >>




Wait a minute. I can't believe I didn't catch that response correctly. How could you even ask "but who could've known Sandusky would use the facilities to rape children?" ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? The 1998 investigation, which Paterno was made aware of at the time, revolved around Sandusky showering with a boy in the Penn State locker rooms. Then McQueary, in 2001, tells Paterno of another incident with a boy in the showers. HOW COULD ONE (PATERNO) NOT KNOW THAT SANDUSKY WOULD USE THE FACILITIES TO RAPE CHILDREN??? And even after that, Sandusky was given continued access. Yeah, Paterno was quite the humanitarian. >>



Again, read the Freah report.

"[...] former Penn State General Counsel Cynthia Baldwin said Sandusky's access to university facilities could not be terminated because of his emeritus status and the fact that he had not yet been convicted."

Link

Objectivity

Hey Penn state guy,

You sit there and say that you believe Paterno was wrong and that you are not defending his actions...yet defending him is all you are doing here. If you are wondering why people might be treating Penn state students and alum like they are fools, it may be because of that!

We all know that deep down many of you still feel Paterno didn't really do anything wrong, or nothing serious enough wrong to get all this hatred toward him, and your actions in this thread show that very much.

Paterno was a scum bag, and that is about the only recognition anyone should give him. Until you agree with that, then all the level headed people in the world will continue to berate your misguided love for him.



I know, but he was a humanitarian!! Are you impressed by this guy because he was a humanitarian:

"While in Springfield, he became involved in several organizations that served the community: the Chi Rho Club where he was membership chairman, the Catholic Inter-Club Council where he was a member of the board, The Federal Civil Defense for Illinois, the Chicago Civil Defense where he was a commanding captain, the Holy Name Society where he was named an officer and the Jaycees where he devoted most of his time to and eventually became first vice-president and "Man of the Year."

That guy was John Wayne Gacy.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't see any factual inaccuracies based on your response. You talk about "firing" Sandusky as being the end all solution. It obviously wasn't. As if that wasn't bad enough, he "fired" Sandusky yet Sandusky had carte blanche access to the football program and facilities. Makes tons of sense. Yeah...I'm sure Paterno had no power over that either. >>



I agree. It obviously wasn't an "end all" solution, but who could've known Sandusky would use the facilities to rape children? With two investigations into the man, what more could Paterno have done beyond firing him? >>




Wait a minute. I can't believe I didn't catch that response correctly. How could you even ask "but who could've known Sandusky would use the facilities to rape children?" ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? The 1998 investigation, which Paterno was made aware of at the time, revolved around Sandusky showering with a boy in the Penn State locker rooms. Then McQueary, in 2001, tells Paterno of another incident with a boy in the showers. HOW COULD ONE (PATERNO) NOT KNOW THAT SANDUSKY WOULD USE THE FACILITIES TO RAPE CHILDREN??? And even after that, Sandusky was given continued access. Yeah, Paterno was quite the humanitarian. >>



Again, read the Freah report.

"[...] former Penn State General Counsel Cynthia Baldwin said Sandusky's access to university facilities could not be terminated because of his emeritus status and the fact that he had not yet been convicted."

Link >>



Did you really read the whole report? If so, you clearly have thick blinders.

It is clear from the report that Paterno was the main guy in putting the retirement package together. Maybe 50 short handwritten Paterno notes/comments on what Sandusky should get, while Paterno was putting the package together, on his brainstorming papers.

JHS5120

<< <i>I just clicked on the link and the first think I read is:


"Freeh report says Penn State should've limited Jerry Sandusky's access to facilities"


Are you sure YOU read the "Freah" report??? >>



I like to read the entire article, not just the headlines

The only reason Penn Staters continue to defend Paterno is because the entire world is solely blaming him. It is absurd and sickening. No one will say Paterno is guiltless, the opposite actually. I am shocked no one understands this. It is disheartening to witness.

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i>I just clicked on the link and the first think I read is:


"Freeh report says Penn State should've limited Jerry Sandusky's access to facilities"


Are you sure YOU read the "Freah" report??? >>



I like to read the entire article, not just the headlines

The only reason Penn Staters continue to defend Paterno is because the entire world is solely blaming him. It is absurd and sickening. No one will say Paterno is guiltless, the opposite actually. I am shocked no one understands this. It is disheartening to witness. >>



Who's that Sandusky fella? Havnt heard about him in the news very much. Every headline says something bout that guy Paterno.

Objectivity

<< <i>

Who's that Sandusky fella? Havnt heard about him in the news very much. Every headline says something bout that guy Paterno. >>




Umm, Sandusky is going to jail. What are you talking about?? He is going to jail for committing awful crimes and there isn't a sole in world who respects him.

Paterno didn't commit the crimes, he just covered them up because the image of his football team was more important than kids being raped, also an awful deed. Problem is, you guys still don't believe how bad a deed that was...and you STILL call him a humanitarian or great man. That is why you still have headlines.

If Penn state people get off that 'great man' and humanitarian soap box, then you probably won't be facing ridicule like the poster said is happening.

JHS5120

<< <i>

<< <i>

Who's that Sandusky fella? Havnt heard about him in the news very much. Every headline says something bout that guy Paterno. >>




Umm, Sandusky is going to jail. What are you talking about?? He is going to jail for committing awful crimes and there isn't a sole in world who respects him.

Paterno didn't commit the crimes, he just covered them up because the image of his football team was more important than kids being raped, also an awful deed. Problem is, you guys still don't believe how bad a deed that was...and you STILL call him a humanitarian or great man. That is why you still have headlines.

If Penn state people get off that 'great man' and humanitarian soap box, then you probably won't be facing ridicule like the poster said is happening. >>



Paterno was never indicted. It is absolutely disgusting that so many people ignore the people who were actually indicted. It is one thing to defend a dead man who cannot defend himself. It is another to ignore the monsters who were responsible for this crime. You should be ashamed.

orioles93

That guy doesn't understand sarcasm...

Objectivity

<< <i>
Paterno was never indicted. It is absolutely disgusting that so many people ignore the people who were actually indicted. It is one thing to defend a dead man who cannot defend himself. It is another to ignore the monsters who were responsible for this crime. You should be ashamed. >>






Wow...and you wonder why people are ridiculing Penn state people.

Sandusky is in jail, where is he being ignored?
Adminstrators are all canned

Paterno's supporters still admire him...that is why he is still being the highlight, because of the fools that continue to admire him. As long as those fools are still there, he will continue to be the main man.

Objectivity

Time to go, as my time allotment on fools has expired for the time being.

Best thing about it is that 99% of the world no longer respects a man who puts a football team's image above that of children being raped.

The 1% who do, will continue to be ridiculed, and will have some of their innocent brethren lumped in with the ridicule because of guilt by association. For those innocent penn staters, you may want to start calling out the fools who represent you and still admire that guy.

bigdcards

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

Who's that Sandusky fella? Havnt heard about him in the news very much. Every headline says something bout that guy Paterno. >>




Umm, Sandusky is going to jail. What are you talking about?? He is going to jail for committing awful crimes and there isn't a sole in world who respects him.

Paterno didn't commit the crimes, he just covered them up because the image of his football team was more important than kids being raped, also an awful deed. Problem is, you guys still don't believe how bad a deed that was...and you STILL call him a humanitarian or great man. That is why you still have headlines.

If Penn state people get off that 'great man' and humanitarian soap box, then you probably won't be facing ridicule like the poster said is happening. >>



Paterno was never indicted. It is absolutely disgusting that so many people ignore the people who were actually indicted. It is one thing to defend a dead man who cannot defend himself. It is another to ignore the monsters who were responsible for this crime. You should be ashamed. >>



It's interesting that you said monsters and not monster. After Sandusky, who are the monsters? And if Joe Pa doesn't make the list, why the other guys and not him?

JHS5120

<< <i>Wow...and you wonder why people are ridiculing Penn state people.

Sandusky is in jail, where is he being ignored?
Adminstrators are all canned

Paterno's supporters still admire him...that is why he is still being the highlight, because of the fools that continue to admire him. As long as those fools are still there, he will continue to be the main man. >>




You really don't know? This is EXACTLY what is wrong with this situation. There have been three men indicted (including Sandusky), Joe Paterno is not one of them. He was investigated and they chose not to indict him, while he was still alive.

I cannot believe people have the gall to post opinions on the matter without knowing about Curley and Schultz. Disgusting.

perkdog

<< <i>perkdog, I'm not sure why you keep lambasting McQueary. Yes, he could have exposed it himself, as could have MANY others as the OP points out. But McQueary told Paterno, and Paterno said he'd handle it. That's why I continually rail on Paterno. >>



You got to be F'ing kidding me! He told Paterno?? Yea Big F'in deal how about doing the RIGHT thing and STOPPING the abuse as soon as he saw it, he left the locker room knowing that some poor kid was getting abused horrifcally in a godam shower! I hold Mike Mqueary just as responsible as Paterno, for all I know Paterno might have stopped it if he saw it I dont know. Its one thing to become aware of it but to actually see it??? Im sorry but any man who is not sure what they would do in the same situation is a coward and less than a man, the only move is to stop it upon seeing it by using force if neccesary.

I ask you if it was YOUR kid in the Shower and you were told that some POS Coward saw it and left the locker room and ho hum reported it you would want the guy dead as I would.

Thats why I keep lambasting McQueary.

perkdog

<< <i>perkdog, Mike McQueary definitely deserves a fair amount of criticism. No one is arguing that point. However, Paterno was a father figure and benefactor to the guy. McQueary wasn't just some random pencil pusher with little or no ties to Paterno. He had played for him very recently and was given a job from Paterno when he had no other place in football to turn to. You have to ask yourself what you would do in his situation if it was your father or close uncle who was in Paterno's seat. Would your instinct be to out anyone and everyone? It's easy enough to declare that we would do this or that being so far removed from the situation.

Once again, I nor anyone is suggesting that he isn't clearly in the wrong. He obviously is. But I'm sure he was dealing with a whole bunch of mixed emotions, especially after assuming that Paterno would do the right thing. Just think of all the unethical BS that virtually EVERYONE in corporate America puts up with day in and day out just for a paycheck. I agree McQueary didn't do enough, but he DID something, and he was not the MAIN problem IMO.

And for Paterno, this wasn't some isolated information that he was being given by McQueary. He had PLENTY enough information going back years to take action. He was the man in charge. The man with the power. The man with the years of wisdom. The patriarch of the program. The man who set the moral compass of the program and arguably the university. The man who was RESPONSIBLE for taking action more than anyone as far as I'm concerned. He did nothing. NOTHING. Worse, he ENABLED the sexual abuse to CONTINUE. His crimes are exponentially greater in my eyes. Sorry if you feel differently but your graphical portrayal of events doesn't change my mind one bit. >>



I dont disagree with you on any of your points other than McQueary. Im not ok with you thinking McQueary should not be getting blamed as much as Paterno though and You can candy coat it yourself all you want as I graphically point it out, your wrong the way I see it. Sure Paterno was a father figure and all that sensitive BS but so what? Had McQueary done the right thing and physically stopped it he wouldnt have thought he would be doing any harm to Paterno at that time, he would have been exposing Sandusky!

I hold them all responsible equally, but again not stopping it upon seeing it should be more than morally wrong it should be a crime with a stiff punishment. And I swear to god if it was my Uncle or Father or Brother I would disown them let alone some godam coach. And yes we all put up with unethical crap in life but not once have I ever witnessed a child crime to this extent but I do know how I would react.

Goot

<< <i>perkdog, Mike McQueary definitely deserves a fair amount of criticism. No one is arguing that point. However, Paterno was a father figure and benefactor to the guy. McQueary wasn't just some random pencil pusher with little or no ties to Paterno. He had played for him very recently and was given a job from Paterno when he had no other place in football to turn to. You have to ask yourself what you would do in his situation if it was your father or close uncle who was in Paterno's seat. Would your instinct be to out anyone and everyone? It's easy enough to declare that we would do this or that being so far removed from the situation.
>>




I can't imagine taking the time to think about everything you just mentioned. I truly believed I would've walked in there and instantly reacted without giving a crap about Paterno. It's a split second reaction, it's not like he had minutes to sit there and think about the consequences. He saw what was going on and like a sissy "made his presence known" by slamming a locker, and went and called his daddy, not Paterno. Obviously his real father was the one he turned to first, not Paterno. Mcqueary was 28. He knew exactly what was going on and failed miserably at life.

Justacommeman

In a twisted bit of irony Mike McQueary was the last QB to officially win a game under the Paterno regime. MJ

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

Who's that Sandusky fella? Havnt heard about him in the news very much. Every headline says something bout that guy Paterno. >>




Umm, Sandusky is going to jail. What are you talking about?? He is going to jail for committing awful crimes and there isn't a sole in world who respects him.

Paterno didn't commit the crimes, he just covered them up because the image of his football team was more important than kids being raped, also an awful deed. Problem is, you guys still don't believe how bad a deed that was...and you STILL call him a humanitarian or great man. That is why you still have headlines.

If Penn state people get off that 'great man' and humanitarian soap box, then you probably won't be facing ridicule like the poster said is happening. >>



Paterno was never indicted. It is absolutely disgusting that so many people ignore the people who were actually indicted. It is one thing to defend a dead man who cannot defend himself. It is another to ignore the monsters who were responsible for this crime. You should be ashamed. >>




You are correct, Paterno, who completely lied in front of the courts, was not indicted.

Connecticoin

<< <i>Would you prefer if I used stronger words? Appalled? Disgusted? Ashamed? >>



For Paterno, it would be a good start.

larryallen73

JHS-
I don't know you and I am sure you are a great guy. However, ANYTHING resembling defense for Paterno makes you look like a complete idiot. I love taking up the contrarian argument but I would say this might be one that's better to let go of. Just don't post on the topic.

Connecticoin

stown

Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk
Head -> Desk

What I just did was more productive than this thread.

That is all.

JHS5120

<< <i> >>




Some people don't understand that Penn State is more than just football. This article is fantastic:

Link

NSibian

If it weren't for the football program, how many people outside of Pennsylvania would have heard of Penn State?

larryallen73

I will go the other way for a moment and say Penn State has always been known as an excellent academic school That's true. It's a top large academic public school like Texas, Michigan, Cal, UNC, UCLA and a few others I am sure I am forgetting.

Beyond that, the current situation is well beyond, and much deeper than, football.

Dboneesq

<< <i>I would say Harvard, MIT, other IVY leagues, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, Cal Tech, and a handful of others which would may include Cal, UCLA and Michigan depending on where you want to draw the line. Just telling it like it is. >>


I'm not going to get into a debate over some of the other schools that you mentioned, but do you think that UCLA is anywhere CLOSE to Harvard when it comes to academics?

larryallen73

<< <i>While I am of the understanding that Penn State is a good academic school, I would hardly rank them on the level of Cal, UCLA, Michigan and probably NC. I might concede Texas. When the best and brightest students (who aren't athletes) are looking to aspire to colleges, I highly doubt they're thinking about Penn State, unless they are in Pennsylvania. Nor does Penn State, to my knowledge anyhow, have an exceptional school of anything in particular. Nor to my knowledge, any substantial amount of Nobel laureates. Penn State is a DISTANT second to U of Penn within the same state. As for the colleges actually renown for top academics, I would say Harvard, MIT, other IVY leagues, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, Cal Tech, and a handful of others which would may include Cal, UCLA and Michigan depending on where you want to draw the line. Penn State a good school. Yes. But is it really prestigious in the minds of those that didn't go there? No. Not hating. Just telling it like it is. >>



Ya, you're right. I must have been confusing it with U-Penn. Oh well....

Dboneesq

<< <i>My point is this, if Harvard came out with this exact same scandal, we'd all be shocked, maybe even more so. But any Harvard student, faculty or whatever could come here, or anywhere, and claim "Harvard is more than just football" and everyone would concede that point right away, since their reputation in academics is hardly paralleled but by arguably only a number of schools that could be counted on one hand. >>


In agreement 100.00%.

Justacommeman

The OP can be as proud as he wants to be about his alma mater. I expect rosy glasses. It is also the right of the rest of the universe to look at Penn State with utter distain or trepidation. This is a stain that doesn't go away............. ever. Penn State is an instituitinal failure. MJ