Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

jeffcbay

ESPN

The NCAA has hit Penn State with a $60 million sanction, a four-year football postseason ban and a vacation of all wins dating to 1998, the organization announced Monday morning in a news release.

"These funds must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university," the statement said.

The career record of former head football coach Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records," the statement continued.

Penn State must also reduce 10 initial and 20 total scholarships each year for a four-year period, the release said.

orioles93

I don't understand how vacating wins helps anyone or anything. This is nothing but a low blow and the ncaa trying to rub salt in a wound. And great, looks like tuition is about to go up....

bking

Any mention of helping athletes transfer? Given that most NCAA teams are already full up on scholarships for the year, and that 2-a-days probably start in a few weeks, what recourse do any of the current players have to jump ship?

I realize the intent is to shift the focus from the football machine, but I had hoped they would be forced to also fund any athlete who wanted to transfer, and also provide an roster exemption of sorts for any program accepting one of the athletes.

stown

<< <i>I don't understand how vacating wins helps anyone or anything. >>



I assume that, along with the other sanctions, were an act of good faith to avoid a death penalty for the program. IMO, they've set the precedent for death penalties going forward.

recbball

SMU gets the death penalty for giving money and other things of value to players.
Penn State got off light.
NCAA has no credibility.

jeffcbay

<< <i>I don't understand how vacating wins helps anyone or anything. >>



It takes Paterno's name off the top of the wins record.

orioles93

I understand the fine, scholarships, and the bowl ban (even though I'm a little P'od about not getting to see my team in a bowl during my college career.) but I think the vacating of wins is a joke, and also I never agree with taking away scholarships at any school. That alone does nothing but hurt students and academics.

larryallen73

<< <i>I don't understand how vacating wins helps anyone or anything. This is nothing but a low blow and the ncaa trying to rub salt in a wound. And great, looks like tuition is about to go up.... >>




This was 100% aimed at Paterno and has little to do with Penn State in my opinion. Any Paterno lovers out there need to come to grips with the fact he was a bad person. The NCAA wants everybody to know it too.

I listened live this morning and laughed out loud when I heard about taking away the wins. That's awesome!

orioles93

Yes but it's still a joke. Everyone knows who really won those games. Now it's just getting trivial and petty. And I'm sure all of those players are feeling great now to knowing theyre football careers were basically for nothing.

interchanges

Bobby Bowden, the new NCAA career wins leader!

Goot

The Big Ten is about to inflict some more pain.

And recbball, this is not a light punishment... Consider this program dead for the next decade+.

bking

<< <i>Yes but it's still a joke. Everyone knows who really won those games. Now it's just getting trivial and petty. And I'm sure all of those players are feeling great now to knowing theyre football careers were basically for nothing. >>



Trivial and petty? Maybe. But it's still a pretty big message - Paterno's legacy, at least in the record books, has a giant asterisk next to it .

At the moment though, all this just feels really rushed to me.

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i> At the moment though, all this just feels really rushed to me. >>



Exactly. I just can't get over the fact, and no one will ever change my mind, that in order to help the healing of kids (the victims), the NCAA finds it necessary to hurt more kids (players & students). It's 2 different kinds of hurt, but nonetheless, it affects everyone in a negative way.

Goot

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> At the moment though, all this just feels really rushed to me. >>



Exactly. I just can't get over the fact, and no one will ever change my mind, that in order to help the healing of kids (the victims), the NCAA finds it necessary to hurt more kids (players & students). It's 2 different kinds of hurt, but nonetheless, it affects everyone in a negative way. >>



Current recruits (class of 2013 high schoolers) were 2 or 3 in 1998.

bking

Problem is there is no real way to hurt the people that need to be hurt. All the NCAA can really do is send a huge message and possibly cause a massive reset in the program. Sadly, collateral damage is guaranteed in that case unless they provide a expedited means of pplayers transferring and playing elsewhere, but even then that assumes the kids WANT to play elsewhere.

Goot

<< <i>Problem is there is no real way to hurt the people that need to be hurt. All the NCAA can really do is send a huge message and possibly cause a massive reset in the program. Sadly, collateral damage is guaranteed in that case unless they provide a expedited means of pplayers transferring and playing elsewhere, but even then that assumes the kids WANT to play elsewhere. >>



My guess that answer is yes there will be transfers. Plus they have to cut 10 scholarships right off the bat...

orioles93

Nothing that has happened has helped the victims in any way shape or form except the money. I think a better punishment, if we're thinking about the victims, would be to have all football revenue for maybe 5-10 years go towards child sexual abuse. do you realize how much money that would be? 10 years would be pushing $1 billion. That would help the victims wayyyy more than punishing the actual football team in anyway.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>Problem is there is no real way to hurt the people that need to be hurt. All the NCAA can really do is send a huge message and possibly cause a massive reset in the program. Sadly, collateral damage is guaranteed in that case unless they provide a expedited means of pplayers transferring and playing elsewhere, but even then that assumes the kids WANT to play elsewhere. >>



My guess that answer is yes there will be transfers. Plus they have to cut 10 scholarships right off the bat... >>



As I mentioned above though, with practices starting any week now, and with other schools probably maxed out on scholarships themselves, how do these guys transfer?

orioles93

They wouldn't have to drop 10 scholarships right off the bat. None of the scholarships already given are going to be affected.

Goot

<< <i>They wouldn't have to drop 10 scholarships right off the bat. None of the scholarships already given are going to be affected. >>




It says 10 initial scholarships and 20 for the next 4 years. The 10 scholarships are for 2013 recruiting?



And Penn St just had their first official decommit. Ross Douglas.

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i>They wouldn't have to drop 10 scholarships right off the bat. None of the scholarships already given are going to be affected. >>




It says 10 initial scholarships and 20 for the next 4 years. The 10 scholarships are for 2013 recruiting?

I believe so

And Penn St just had their first official decommit. Ross Douglas. >>

perkdog

Good that Penn State got hammered, the school turned its back and looked the other way for years while this sickening abuse was taking place, not to mention all those idiots that held a candelight vigil for Paterno not thinking for second about the atrocities done to countless children.

Im also glad that Paternos wins are erased, bottom line I feel zero sympothy for any of these scumbags who were involved. We are not talking about just Paterno here we are talking about the schools admin that did NOTHING about this while it was going on for over a freaking decade!

JHS5120

<< <i>Good that Penn State got hammered, the school turned its back and looked the other way for years while this sickening abuse was taking place, not to mention all those idiots that held a candelight vigil for Paterno not thinking for second about the atrocities done to countless children.

Im also glad that Paternos wins are erased, bottom line I feel zero sympothy for any of these scumbags who were involved. We are not talking about just Paterno here we are talking about the schools admin that did NOTHING about this while it was going on for over a freaking decade! >>



The vigil was for the victims.

mrmint23

Only wish Paterno was still alive to see what his inactions caused to the University and helpless children.

Sportsamerica

My feelings:

1) $60m -- not enough
2) Ban on Bowls -- Ok that is normal
3) Scholarships loss? -- think goes too far on current players/coaches...
4) Wins removed.. Ok I get they don't want Paterno as the most wins, but maybe the NCAA does not recognized as the PSU head coach.

So do you know the last win for PSU now is when Mike McQuerry (sp) was the Starting QB??
The game in 2010 between PSU and Ohio State U never took place since both have been banished..

In the Big 10 Leader's Division, both PSU nor OSU can win it, so that means, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue or Wisconsin will win the division..

I guess the struggle I am having is the current players are being punished for actions of people who are no longer there...

What I would have liked to see:

1) $100m fine
2) Can goto bowls, but all money put in a fund for victims of child abuse (not just the ones who JS)
3) Scholarship loss should happen, but 10 a year is tough..

I think the NCAA has jumped too quickly, as more info is coming out daily about what people knew and when. I would not be surprised if we hear about the Current Gov. Corbin is linked somehow to this issue.

larryallen73

<< <i>

<< <i>Good that Penn State got hammered, the school turned its back and looked the other way for years while this sickening abuse was taking place, not to mention all those idiots that held a candelight vigil for Paterno not thinking for second about the atrocities done to countless children.

Im also glad that Paternos wins are erased, bottom line I feel zero sympothy for any of these scumbags who were involved. We are not talking about just Paterno here we are talking about the schools admin that did NOTHING about this while it was going on for over a freaking decade! >>



The vigil was for the victims. >>




The vigil may have been but there were also many protests and what not by Paterno loyalists. I am glad they have piped down now. Other than the idiotic family conducting their own investigation. Idiots! All the people involved, including Paterno, are scumbags.

larryallen73

<< <i>Only wish Paterno was still alive to see what his inactions caused to the University and helpless children. >>




+1

However, hopefully he is looking up and seeing it!

pmcollectour

Hurting the guilty men involved is a good move.

Hurting the current players, fans and staff is not a good move.
These are innocent people getting the shaft once again.

Like the poster said, taking all the football revenue in the next ten years and giving it towards the afflicted and similar causes
would have been more productive, then hurting innocent bystanders.

So shame on the NCAA for a very poor ruling. Many innocent football fans and players at Penn State will suffer because of it.

Glad to see the wins taken away from Paterno. That is something I didn't think of.

orioles93

I like the idea of letting them go to bowl games and donating all of the proceeds to charities to help kids. You would be using football to help kids and the fans would still be happy.

al032184

The NCAA is just a bunch of hypocrites. Their greed created this whole damn environment where state DA's have to walk on eggshells investigating child endangerment and grown men are afraid to report the sexual assault of a child. I don't give a crap about Paterno and, frankly, I don't care about Penn State Football. The people getting hurt most by these punishments are the students and faculty, as well as the people who live in and around State College. One man committed these crimes, and a small handful of men, including police and state attorneys, are guilty of not taking action when they should have. Shouldn't we go after them directly?

orioles93

<< <i>The people getting hurt most by these punishments are the students and faculty, as well as the people who live in and around State College. One man committed these crimes, and a small handful of men, including police and state attorneys, are guilty of not taking action when they should have. Shouldn't we go after them directly? >>



What I've been trying to say all along. They're punishing the wrong people.

al032184

The local crazed football culture does not exist solely in State College and it wasn't created here.

orioles93

<< <i>It short, it wasn't a 'few men,' it was the whole whole university. It was the whole 'football first' culture. Students with torches and pitchforks are equation. >>



Really? The whole university? The riot consisted of around 3000 students (the stupid ones) and there's over 90,000 students currently enrolled at PSU. Thanks for lumping me in the with the dumb ones and blaming me for this whole situation. And i'll be honest, i never viewed PSU as a football first culture. It was more of a academic and research first culture and just loved the football team to no end. More of a school pride thing than anything. It's not like it's any different at Alabama or LSU or any of the other big football schools. You sir can crawl in a hole and never come out.

ziggy29

<< <i>What I've been trying to say all along. They're punishing the wrong people. >>

Actually, the NCAA specifically mentioned this as a reason to NOT inflict the death penalty. There are a lot of people who work in stadium operations, in football operations, and who own local small businesses in State College who depend on the revenue from home games to stay afloat. These entities would have all been financially devastated by the DP. Under the current sanctions, football can continue, these people still have their jobs, these businesses can stay alive (as long as people still come to the games)... but the institution and the athletic program were hammered.

That is essentially what Emmert was conveying in his remarks.

Justice is not *only* about punishing the guilty, but protecting the innocent from being punished as well. To some degree the NCAA had to look for a balance between these two cornerstones of our concept of justice. It wasn't perfect but I think they came pretty close to getting it right, all things considered.

larryallen73

<< <i>

<< <i>It short, it wasn't a 'few men,' it was the whole whole university. It was the whole 'football first' culture. Students with torches and pitchforks are equation. >>



Really? The whole university? The riot consisted of around 3000 students (the stupid ones) and there's over 90,000 students currently enrolled at PSU. Thanks for lumping me in the with the dumb ones and blaming me for this whole situation. And i'll be honest, i never viewed PSU as a football first culture. It was more of a academic and research first culture and just loved the football team to no end. More of a school pride thing than anything. It's not like it's any different at Alabama or LSU or any of the other big football schools. You sir can crawl in a hole and never come out. >>



I have never heard of a college with 90,000 students. I would say that's incorrect.

Whatever the number it was a lot of people. It is it every single one? Obviously not but it is more than just a couple people.

This is not about punishment for Penn State this about cutting down on the chances on it being repeated at another school.

Sure it's unfair for the current students and football fans. Life is unfair sometimes.

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> I have never heard of a college with 90,000 students. I would say that's incorrect. >>



Theres 44,000 at main campus, 34,000 at the other 23 branch campus's, and 16,000 at other branches such as tech, college of medicine, and law. all of which have the same opportunity to buy student tickets. So thats around 95,000 students actually who are enrolled at PSU. Not trying to be a smart a@@ or anything, just letting you know the numbers. Also i know life is unfair sometimes, but there were other options that could have been done that would have been just as bad a punishment, but would have helped people as well.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>It short, it wasn't a 'few men,' it was the whole whole university. It was the whole 'football first' culture. Students with torches and pitchforks are equation. >>



Really? The whole university? The riot consisted of around 3000 students (the stupid ones) and there's over 90,000 students currently enrolled at PSU. Thanks for lumping me in the with the dumb ones and blaming me for this whole situation. And i'll be honest, i never viewed PSU as a football first culture. It was more of a academic and research first culture and just loved the football team to no end. More of a school pride thing than anything. It's not like it's any different at Alabama or LSU or any of the other big football schools. You sir can crawl in a hole and never come out. >>





I believe he meant the institution, which of course is different then the individual...and why we are on this road. Those at the top put the institution first over the welfare of the individuals.

When a person aligns oneself with an institution, you gain a part of its success and failures. Today, (or this year), Penn State got a huge black eye.

Yes, there are other colleges that also put sports first. I am sure this incident will cause board discussions across the nation.

Honestly, I think the school got off very light and was expecting a 3-5 year ban. Although I imagine what talent there was there to begin with will be gone without a month.

larryallen73

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i> I have never heard of a college with 90,000 students. I would say that's incorrect. >>



Theres 44,000 at main campus, 34,000 at the other 23 branch campus's, and 16,000 at other branches such as tech, college of medicine, and law. all of which have the same opportunity to buy student tickets. So thats around 95,000 students actually who are enrolled at PSU. Not trying to be a smart a@@ or anything, just letting you know the numbers. Also i know life is unfair sometimes, but there were other options that could have been done that would have been just as bad a punishment, but would have helped people as well. >>




That's amazing. Nonetheless the numbers don't matter. It's about deterring OTHER college football coaches from conducting horrible criminal cover ups as Joe Paterno did. Scum bag may he rot in hell. To me, the more I think about it, he's as low as Sandusky. At least Sandusky had some mental illness or something. Paterno just wanted to cover it up because football was more important to him. That is really sick and twisted!

bking

I wish I could remember who wrote the column, but there was a great one last week that focused on "the picture". In other words, the idea that, once Paterno or any of the administators were made aware of the allegations in 1998, they had to have "a picture" in their heads of Sandusky raping boys every time they passed him in the halls, etc. How could they not have that mental image pop in at least occasionally?? And, the article suggested, how could they ever go on with business as usual with that image hanging around in their heads??

Makes you think. How could they blot that out?

pmcollectour

<< <i>I wish I could remember who wrote the column, but there was a great one last week that focused on "the picture". In other words, the idea that, once Paterno or any of the administators were made aware of the allegations in 1998, they had to have "a picture" in their heads of Sandusky raping boys every time they passed him in the halls, etc. How could they not have that mental image pop in at least occasionally?? And, the article suggested, how could they ever go on with business as usual with that image hanging around in their heads??

Makes you think. How could they blot that out? >>




I agree with you, but we're discussing the Penn State sanctions on this thread, and what Jopa and Sandusky and the others did is already accepted as horrible.

Sandusky is gone.
Jope is gone.
The formers heads at Penn State are gone and awaiting trial.
The statue is gone.

If the NCAA wanted to punish the guilty, they could of, as they did with taking Paterno's victories away.

If the NCAA wanted to do something positive for the victims, their families, and consider the innocent Penn State fans and alumni who are also victims of
this horrible incident, then they failed miserably.

pmcollectour

<< <i>A simple answer is a university is a university and when what is when you come down to it is a just a silly kid's game dominates the university to the degree that football dominates Penn State (and many schools) there is a problem. It's ridiculous. It's a farce, a living satire. There is a major structural, philosophical and academic problem at the university. A university is supposed to be about academics, and there's something majorly and seriously wrong with Penn State with a sport dominates the university that way. It may be what the NFL and ESPN is supposed to be about, but it's not supposed to be what a college is supposed to be about. Period. >>




Parents spend $30,000.00 a year to send their kids to Penn State.
They may spend $5,000.00 a year on season tickets.

Most of the time, money, and attention goes to studies, homework, and basic college life.
Football is just a Saturday diversion that lasts 16 or more weeks of the year, or half the school year.

Football does not dominate the college life, but it is a great diversion from the hectic academic schedule that many Division I college kids endure.

larryallen73

<< <i>

<< <i>I wish I could remember who wrote the column, but there was a great one last week that focused on "the picture". In other words, the idea that, once Paterno or any of the administators were made aware of the allegations in 1998, they had to have "a picture" in their heads of Sandusky raping boys every time they passed him in the halls, etc. How could they not have that mental image pop in at least occasionally?? And, the article suggested, how could they ever go on with business as usual with that image hanging around in their heads??

Makes you think. How could they blot that out? >>




I agree with you, but we're discussing the Penn State sanctions on this thread, and what Jopa and Sandusky and the others did is already accepted as horrible.

Sandusky is gone.
Jope is gone.
The formers heads at Penn State are gone and awaiting trial.
The statue is gone.

If the NCAA wanted to punish the guilty, they could of, as they did with taking Paterno's victories away.

If the NCAA wanted to do something positive for the victims, their families, and consider the innocent Penn State fans and alumni who are also victims of
this horrible incident, then they failed miserably. >>




The $60m is the punishment. The rest is deterrent to keep the other schools and other coaches from doing the cover ups.

orioles93

<< <i>

<< <i>A simple answer is a university is a university and when what is when you come down to it is a just a silly kid's game dominates the university to the degree that football dominates Penn State (and many schools) there is a problem. It's ridiculous. It's a farce, a living satire. There is a major structural, philosophical and academic problem at the university. A university is supposed to be about academics, and there's something majorly and seriously wrong with Penn State with a sport dominates the university that way. It may be what the NFL and ESPN is supposed to be about, but it's not supposed to be what a college is supposed to be about. Period. >>




Parents spend $30,000.00 a year to send their kids to Penn State.
They may spend $5,000.00 a year on season tickets.

Most of the time, money, and attention goes to studies, homework, and basic college life.
Football is just a Saturday diversion that lasts 16 or more weeks of the year, or half the school year.

Football does not dominate the college life, but it is a great diversion from the hectic academic schedule that many Division I college kids endure. >>



Ya i'm pretty sure I and the majority or students didn't go there because of the football team. We went there for school and to get a degree. Like what was said above, football is a diversion. It gives students something to do and talk about when not working on studies. Its fun and gives students a chance to let lose on weekends of the fall semester. Very few people actually "worshiped" the football team. I mean come on, that just sounds foolish and outlandish. People who have never even gone to State College, PA are making false statements about the school culture and are just believing things in the news and on ESPN.

soundgard

Bet if this was an sec team, they wouldnt had taken away Paterno's wins. Sec runs the ncaa and we all know this after no penalties were issued with Auburn in 2010.

I'm not a Penn state fan, but I bet if asked, Bobby Bowden would admit Paterno is #1 in wins regardless of this stupid decision by the greedy NCAA.

soundgard

<< <i>

<< <i>Bet if this was an sec team, they wouldnt had taken away Paterno's wins. Sec runs the ncaa and we all know this after no penalties were issued with Auburn in 2010.

I'm not a Penn state fan, but I bet if asked, Bobby Bowden would admit Paterno is #1 in wins regardless of this stupid decision by the greedy NCAA. >>




Apparently, Bobby Bowden doesn't agree with you.


Link >>



Well, at least he admitted he didnt earn it lol.

What the ncaa really did was take away the wins from all those players involved. Players win games, not coaches.

WeekendHacker

<< <i>I like the idea of letting them go to bowl games and donating all of the proceeds to charities to help kids. You would be using football to help kids and the fans would still be happy. >>

You are assuming that PSU football will be successful with limited scholarships, bad publicity, historical adversities, and unprecedented sanctions - and receive invites to bowl games that have value - that is far too much to assume after the horrific tragedies that have taken place for close to 15 years. I am from PA and I actually think they got off light. Nothing can repay the damage done to those who were abused and for those who overlooked it, silenced it, down-played it – they have more problems & issues than the PSU football program!!!!!!!!! Remember people – they are STUDENT ATHLETES – always remember what comes first in that two word slogan. In this case, those affected were not even affiliated as students with PSU. So, so, so wrong to be overlooked and not pursued – so wrong!!

WeekendHacker

<< <i>grown men are afraid to report the sexual assault of a child. >>

I am sorry sir, but you have issues.

soundgard

vladguerrero

<< <i>


Parents spend $30,000.00 a year to send their kids to Penn State.
They may spend $5,000.00 a year on season tickets.

Most of the time, money, and attention goes to studies, homework, and basic college life.
Football is just a Saturday diversion that lasts 16 or more weeks of the year, or half the school year.

Football does not dominate the college life, but it is a great diversion from the hectic academic schedule that many Division I college kids endure. >>



$30k is an out of state cost, in state cost for students is half that.

Not much else to add other than obviously they were docked the wins because that would hurt the school where the money (easily paid) wouldn't have been an affective punishment. I'm in Pennsylvania right now on holidays and the people I've spoken too thought the fines and punishment would be worse (easily $100M+, etc).

larryallen73

<< <i>I agree with the earlier post that I don't see where students are harmed. Deepmphesizing football and taking the power from the football coach and giving it to the university president should help the school's academics-- and academics is what the students are supposed to there for, right? Further the punishment specifically says that the fines cannot be paid of of the funds for academic department.

Do you ever wonder why Cal Tech doesn't have a Division 1 football team? After all they have a substantially larger endowment than Penn State, Alabama or Florida. It's because they see their university's mission as, *gasp*, academics and giving students the best education. Some at Cal Tech likely would say that getting rid of a Division I football is the best thing Penn State could do for its students if academics is the concern.

In short, if one is an alumni and his concern really is about the students, and the students' concern really is academics and the value of their diploma, they would welcome if not encourage the shifting of power and sway from the football team. If instead these same people want to keep the football versus academics power balance as it was under Paterno, then what they really care is football.

I can promise a Penn State undergrad that when he applies to medical schools, the medical schools will care about the academic reputation of the university and not about how many games the football team won. In fact, it's very much possible that the head of medical school admissions at Harvard, Yale and Johns Hopkins have no interest in football, or even, as academic-centric people, look down their noses schools schools that are dominated by Division I football. >>




Good thoughts. I know a couple Cal Tech grads and they still think very highly of their school. I have tried to make fun of the basketball team's losing streak but they aren't sports fans so don't care.

Goot

I'm dying at the comparison to schools like Cal Tech right now....


Cal Tech Hit with NCAA sanctions


They even vacated wins that didn't exist. Haha


Edit: I know these violations were extremely inconsequential and the NCAA would've never looked into it themselves, but figured that this is the proof that EVERY program has the potential to mess up in various ways.