Some good points. Think the VIN # analogy captures it quite well.
It think its fair to say that graded cards on eBay come with some assurance of its value based on it being encapsulated and certified as a grade and that grade is guaranteed by PSA. Potentially paying a premium will always include paying for these benefits. If a card looks a 7 but graded a 4 then psa saw something we can't see in a low res scan. The grade provides us some info on the condition quality of the product.
Buying a raw card on eBay especially with the quality of scan this seller provided would be a risk and its reasonable to assume that it would sell for below market given buyer's inability to examine surface, etc.
But the seller wants his cake and to eat it too. Grading the card then withholding the grade is similar to selling a raw card and providing limited info on its condition, relying only on decent centering to suggest a higher grade card.
If he wants to hide the psa grade he should provide higher res scans and full disclosure on surface quality, etc.
<< <i>I guess it's no longer applicable to buy the card, not the holder. >>
No...you should still buy the card and not the holder. But to get the benefit of the "PSA eyeballs" without exposing the PSA grade is a cop-out. You might as well leave "PSA" out of the auction title.
What he forgot to mention is that the bidders knew the McCovey was graded 9 OC. I wonder how many emails the seller has got telling him how dumb he/she is. James
What an absolute moron. If the grade means nothing to him, why the F does he have them graded. If the card itself is all he wants you to see and base your bid on, then why the F grade them at all. Stupid STUPID freaking idiot.
<< <i>I guess it's no longer applicable to buy the card, not the holder. >>
No...you should still buy the card and not the holder. But to get the benefit of the "PSA eyeballs" without exposing the PSA grade is a cop-out. You might as well leave "PSA" out of the auction title. >>
It's all water under the bridge now, since the seller revised the listing and disclosed the grade. But I don't have any problem with the way he originally listed it. I think the overall presentation left a lot to be desired, since the quality of his scans are piss poor and the wording (specifically the capitalization of AUTHENTIC) led some to speculate that the card did not have a number grade. That speculation made perfect sense based on the circumstances at the time
However, in theory, knowing a card has been graded with a number from PSA indicates that it passed muster when analyzed by "PSA eyeballs." Why shouldn't the seller get the benefit of that? As long as it's slabbed, there's no reason he shouldn't.
I agree that this particular seller created a listing that was rather stupid, but generally speaking, if a seller wants to provide a high quality scan (min. 200 dpi) of both front and back on a black background and simply state that it's graded by PSA with an assigned number grade, I'd have no problem with that. Personally, I don't like a number grade of 1 because the difference between "A" and "1" can often be subjective, to an even greater degree than the subjective difference between two sequential number grades. So if the seller specifically wrote, "It has a number grade no lower than 2; buy the card not the holder, see scans below" I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. If you don't like the selling strategy, don't bid.
<< <i>"It has a number grade no lower than 2; buy the card not the holder, see scans below >>
"Buy the card not the holder" works great for initial eye-appeal issues. You can't always see damage or flaws that are evident when the card is in hand.
Seller got a ton of free advertising through this thread which drove many more to his auction than would have just stumbled upon it. If the grades are out there now, he pulled off a pretty good marketing ploy. More eyeballs means more bids.
I've been collecting graded vintage Sittler. I do have a Sittler RC that is 8(OC) that I bought at least a decade ago; it was when I bought a second card, 1975 Topps PSA 8, that I discovered the regisrtry and decided to but some more. I'm not a huge graded card fan, but older OPC hockey fascinates me.
I figure that when I have nothing else left to buy (or I see the right price) I'll look into a PSA 8 Sittler, but right now a couple of things are holding me back:
1. I'd rather not spend $250-300 or so on a single card when that same amount of money can by my any number of cool cards. 2. I'm not familiar enought with the set itself to know how much better (or worse) one card can look compared to the next card. 3. I have the card, and I like the card I have. Unless I can find a PSA 8 Sittler RC at a price lower than what I'm willing to pay, I'm not convinced that I should like the one I have any less.
<< <i>Seller got a ton of free advertising through this thread which drove many more to his auction than would have just stumbled upon it. If the grades are out there now, he pulled off a pretty good marketing ploy. More eyeballs means more bids. >>
Yeah, let's not overstate how many folks probably followed this thread compared to the numbers of Ebayers.
---------------------- Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989 ----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
Comments
It think its fair to say that graded cards on eBay come with some assurance of its value based on it being encapsulated and certified as a grade and that grade is guaranteed by PSA. Potentially paying a premium will always include paying for these benefits. If a card looks a 7 but graded a 4 then psa saw something we can't see in a low res scan. The grade provides us some info on the condition quality of the product.
Buying a raw card on eBay especially with the quality of scan this seller provided would be a risk and its reasonable to assume that it would sell for below market given buyer's inability to examine surface, etc.
But the seller wants his cake and to eat it too. Grading the card then withholding the grade is similar to selling a raw card and providing limited info on its condition, relying only on decent centering to suggest a higher grade card.
If he wants to hide the psa grade he should provide higher res scans and full disclosure on surface quality, etc.
If one looks at the standards page, "A" is not even mentioned, unless the cards
are from a set that needs to be 'hand cut'
<< <i>I guess it's no longer applicable to buy the card, not the holder. >>
No...you should still buy the card and not the holder. But to get the benefit of the "PSA eyeballs" without exposing the PSA grade is a cop-out. You might as well leave "PSA" out of the auction title.
James
<< <i>Apparently he changed his mind. He just revised the auction and included a scan that shows the grade (8). >>
He did the same for all of his other auctions where he blocked out the grade.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess it's no longer applicable to buy the card, not the holder. >>
No...you should still buy the card and not the holder. But to get the benefit of the "PSA eyeballs" without exposing the PSA grade is a cop-out. You might as well leave "PSA" out of the auction title. >>
It's all water under the bridge now, since the seller revised the listing and disclosed the grade. But I don't have any problem with the way he originally listed it. I think the overall presentation left a lot to be desired, since the quality of his scans are piss poor and the wording (specifically the capitalization of AUTHENTIC) led some to speculate that the card did not have a number grade. That speculation made perfect sense based on the circumstances at the time
However, in theory, knowing a card has been graded with a number from PSA indicates that it passed muster when analyzed by "PSA eyeballs." Why shouldn't the seller get the benefit of that? As long as it's slabbed, there's no reason he shouldn't.
I agree that this particular seller created a listing that was rather stupid, but generally speaking, if a seller wants to provide a high quality scan (min. 200 dpi) of both front and back on a black background and simply state that it's graded by PSA with an assigned number grade, I'd have no problem with that. Personally, I don't like a number grade of 1 because the difference between "A" and "1" can often be subjective, to an even greater degree than the subjective difference between two sequential number grades. So if the seller specifically wrote, "It has a number grade no lower than 2; buy the card not the holder, see scans below" I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. If you don't like the selling strategy, don't bid.
<< <i>"It has a number grade no lower than 2; buy the card not the holder, see scans below >>
"Buy the card not the holder" works great for initial eye-appeal issues. You can't always see damage or flaws that are evident when the card is in hand.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Bernie Kosar collector
I figure that when I have nothing else left to buy (or I see the right price) I'll look into a PSA 8 Sittler, but right now a couple of things are holding me back:
1. I'd rather not spend $250-300 or so on a single card when that same amount of money can by my any number of cool cards.
2. I'm not familiar enought with the set itself to know how much better (or worse) one card can look compared to the next card.
3. I have the card, and I like the card I have. Unless I can find a PSA 8 Sittler RC at a price lower than what I'm willing to pay, I'm not convinced that I should like the one I have any less.
<< <i>Seller got a ton of free advertising through this thread which drove many more to his auction than would have just stumbled upon it. If the grades are out there now, he pulled off a pretty good marketing ploy. More eyeballs means more bids. >>
Yeah, let's not overstate how many folks probably followed this thread compared to the numbers of Ebayers.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
I believe he will end up with less bids than had he started the auction legitimately.
Who wants to deal with a clown like that?