I went into my local B&M yesterday and asked about PMs.
mrpaseo
Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
There were two nice gentlemen that work there and they started by asking if I was a collector or an investor. I explained that I am interested in learning about bullion and they went to explaining about spot, that Silver is the best investment and these few notes.
1. He started by collecting/saving 5 rolls of dimes, 5 rolls of quarters, 5 rolls of halves, 5 rolls of dollars (All 90%).
He explained about the need for small silver pieces to be able to barter for food and stuff.
2. He informed me that his ratio is 1/250 (Gold/Silver).
He explained that gold would be used primarily for large purchases such as land/vehicles/houses and as noted above, Silver would be widely used for barter.
3. ASEs, he stated that 2012 ASEs are hard to come by and that they are selling for about $40 each. That said, he was not trying to rip me off.... he didn't have any to sell me.
I have seen them cheaper on line but haven't done any purchases so I don't really know.
4. He talked a lot about Solar power and back up generators.
When I told him I wanted to learn about investing in PMs he spoke mostly of the SHTF scenario. Not that that bothered me as a lot of people speak of that these days. I mentioned a few times about hedging against the declining dollar and he continued to talk about his Solar power (He was proud to tell me about his work shop that is totally ran on Solar).
5. When asked what 90% he had, he pulled out three bins.
The first bin had exactly 1 ea silver bar in the amount of 1oz.
The second bin had 3ea half dollars (One of three different types).
The third bin had about 5 Morgan/Peace dollars... That was it.
That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I was just going in to gain a little experience as I will be moving from the area in the next few weeks and I want to gain some PM talk for when I go to the local B&M in my new location.
Thanks for reading,
Ray
1. He started by collecting/saving 5 rolls of dimes, 5 rolls of quarters, 5 rolls of halves, 5 rolls of dollars (All 90%).
He explained about the need for small silver pieces to be able to barter for food and stuff.
2. He informed me that his ratio is 1/250 (Gold/Silver).
He explained that gold would be used primarily for large purchases such as land/vehicles/houses and as noted above, Silver would be widely used for barter.
3. ASEs, he stated that 2012 ASEs are hard to come by and that they are selling for about $40 each. That said, he was not trying to rip me off.... he didn't have any to sell me.
I have seen them cheaper on line but haven't done any purchases so I don't really know.
4. He talked a lot about Solar power and back up generators.
When I told him I wanted to learn about investing in PMs he spoke mostly of the SHTF scenario. Not that that bothered me as a lot of people speak of that these days. I mentioned a few times about hedging against the declining dollar and he continued to talk about his Solar power (He was proud to tell me about his work shop that is totally ran on Solar).
5. When asked what 90% he had, he pulled out three bins.
The first bin had exactly 1 ea silver bar in the amount of 1oz.
The second bin had 3ea half dollars (One of three different types).
The third bin had about 5 Morgan/Peace dollars... That was it.
That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I was just going in to gain a little experience as I will be moving from the area in the next few weeks and I want to gain some PM talk for when I go to the local B&M in my new location.
Thanks for reading,
Ray
0
Comments
Good info. The "doomsday preppers" are always gonna talk survival and getting off the grid. The next shop you go to might talk more about buying silver/gold for hedging (more of your interest probably). The next might talk about collector value. The next might talk about investing.
You can take all the info that you gather and form your own stance on PM's. Ultimately, it's what you want to do and what you can afford.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Good info. The "doomsday preppers" are always gonna talk survival and getting off the grid. The next shop you go to might talk more about buying silver/gold for hedging (more of your interest probably). The next might talk about collector value. The next might talk about investing.
You can take all the info that you gather and form your own stance on PM's. Ultimately, it's what you want to do and what you can afford. >>
True, but I am very interested in others perspective on the "what" and "Why" of their stance on PMs. I know it is a personal question and each person has different views but I find them fascinating when others share their stories.
Maybe it's time for a poll
If there is a coin show near by, it would be well worth the trip to see what's shaking in the bullion/PM world. A show is a great live game to visit and gather information. Another route is to visit a more established and bigger volume mover B&M will always have plenty of 90% and US Mint items like ASE's. Another way to get some PM is to offer to buy the old coin books that still have the collections in them (they usually pull the keys and throw the rest on a shelf). Ninety percent gets heavy fast and uses a fair amount of storage space but for stackers, it is a required personal stash item and a very liquid way to catch a spike in spot. If you will build a relationship with a friendly B&M or two, the liquidity of your transactions will become better for both of you. The third and upcomingly cool way to get some silver is to hit the gold and silver buyers places near you. They often have silver in a display counter or if you ask, they may bring some out for you to look at. They pay squat for it so maybe you can get a good deal there. Leave the foreign silver alone for now because it is not as liquid, for the most part, as US issues.
Bottom line, you have to have a few rolls of 90% walkers and quarters as they will be traded freely in good times and bad. Having some ASE's is good but you pay a premium getting into them (in small quantities) and you may not be able to recapture that premium paid except for catching a nice rise in spot. The good thing about ASE's is that they are always sought after on both sides of the counter. Buying silver from the mint is a bit pricey but with a good relationship with a B&M, you can probably get your metal cheaper, particularly for commems (B&M's usually buy them back at near spot). Save the mint purchases for special issues such as the reverse proof of a few years ago or the anniversary set. Some special issues have seen nice price upticks since issue. Get a mint account if you want to dauble so you can get online for your purchase. There are some nice investment grade silver issues that have come out during the last few years so you don't really have to be too shy about spending a little extra for numismatics that have low issue numbers or they may be high demand special issues. If they are in demand now, likely they will be in the future...but at what price, that's the question. Generally, numismatics are not traded as bullion (you hope).
Silver has made and destroyed many an investor. Most folks that are successful with silver now have worn their butt for a hat more than once or had a great mentor...experience is something that is most easily acquired through mistakes. Those that buy when prices are near contemporary low points and hold through panic selling and fear will end up with a nice stash and likely with a considerable price accumulation. For example, 500 ASE's just a few years ago at $16 spot cost about 8K but at today's price, now, the same box is worth more like 15K. Will silver go up...probably. Will silver fluctuate...yes, wildly at times. If you try and run in and grab some metal and then panic and sell everything when you're losing your hide then you are doomed from the start. If you want to accumulate some silver at a fair price and you want to stash it for a few years then you will likely be pleased with your choice. Buy good stuff that you plan to keep for a while. The good thing about silver is that it will always be worth something, unlike GM.
My two cents.
Happy trails.
buy heads to a larger coin shop or the regional smelter/refiner. They would rather sell to you at 1-3% above the smelter's buy prices than package up the material, insure it, and
get less. And for the ASE's and other decent silver and gold coins they pick up, most get wholesaled right away to other coin dealers. You might as well act as the middleman
and get a better price. I have one such guy I've worked with and purchases about $20,000 each week in bullion and jewelry. There are always deals coming down the pike if
and when I want them. These guys often tend to pay more for bullion that your local coin shops, jewelers, and pawns. I've never bought bullion silver from any of my local
coin shops as the price was never as competitive as I could find with vest pocket dealers who frequent coin shows.
1) I have %90 and be hard pressed to find someone to trade with in an emergency. I have a prepper friend who owns silver, but more likely to trade items directly like food for a flashlight, etc. Its not a bad alternate, just don't solely count on it. Now %40 is even more confusing, even now! I have pure silver, and same applies, if not more complicated. In an emergency, what would you trust and accept? Gold is another animal - go slow. But in an emergency, count on them all being much less of value than when the system is up. Modern cash and "tradables" are needed. In an all out national devastation, I don't know who could actually predict what you'll need monetary wise.. Community may be the most valued.
In the PM hedge or investing world, its best to think of the %90 purpose as secondary. If you find a really outstanding deal at half current price, then of course buy, then sell it fast! Else take it easy. Buy .999
2) His opinion is number 7,995, and I'd respect it, but it will be up to you. I like silver, can't carry it though, but easier to break down into small sales. I like gold, much more expensive for my budget, easy to carry. In a bad situation, save the weight for a sidearm. When the system is fine, you still have to sell the PMs to get the cash to use to buy something. (thats pretty funny when you think about it) Learn how to sell as much as buy. Would you trade tomatoes via the post office for pms?
3) They are only hard to come by for him because he is not knowledgable. They sell for spot and a few bucks. Be easier to buy then sell at the same premium if you paid too much. 5) He just is not a dealer in these items. Best to investigate many other places, where there is a bunch on display, a daily price list, etc.
4) Solar is kewl. But definately start talking to other people about your interests. This forum is the best!
When you ask about investing (flagword) in PMs, and the person doesn't first caution you about what you just said, be careful and learn more first! My local dealer said, "go with silver first to try it out, and that you could be seriously hurt by buying gold if you don't know what you are doing." Define your purpose even in the beginning. Invest, hedge, buy/sell, fun and enjoyment, (flagwords) are all totally different at their core, but overlap. Know which part of each you are interested in. No money you can't afford to loose until you are experienced. You have to know that you can buy pms now, say silver at $28 and oz, or even $33, and it may go to $15 and stay there for a long time. Same % with gold. I've come to consider that in my risk tolerance, even though I feel I'll profit or break even, as wealth retention is part of my goal. If you really don't know what hedge means in all ways pertaining to your situation, don't do it. What percentage of your portfolio is always your overiding thought. Likely more lossers than winners in this game for beginners..
If you'd like to own some PMs for enjoyment and collecting, its really kewl stuff, and unlike most other hobbys, likely to have return value, when you want out. You can safetly play in this mode for limited $ amounts to start.
Save the rhetoric. In a bull market buy the dips.
In a bear market====silver right now...sell the highs. Personally I don't like silver above $15-17.
Nobody is going to be using pre 1965 coinage to buy a loaf of bread. We will be in a cashless society before that is allowed to happen.
You don't know that being that "times" haven't gotten desperate enough. You know what they say about desperate times, right? You may be surprised what alot of people would be willing to do in a shtf scenario. I've thought about it and I'm not even sure what I'd be willing to do if it came down to protecting my family in that day to day environment. I know what I would unltimately do, but it doesn't change the fact of that they are tough questions to ask oneself.
<< <i>Ray, that dealer is feeding you his standard line of crap.
Save the rhetoric. In a bull market buy the dips.
In a bear market====silver right now...sell the highs. Personally I don't like silver above $15-17.
Nobody is going to be using pre 1965 coinage to buy a loaf of bread. We will be in a cashless society before that is allowed to happen. >>
Having gone through 3 days without electricity (small SHTF condition)....most gas stations closed....ATM's not working. Businesses that were opened only accepting CASH because the Cable or Phone lines were down. For experimental purposes, attempted to exchange $1 in 90% halves for $20...guess what, nobody would even consider it. CASH was KING. Thank God I had some.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Good test. You probably would have had a similar reaction to a 1/10th oz American Gold Eagle if you had wanted spot for it at the time.
90% silver coin is always good as a silver speculation, knowing in advance that the premiums when both buying and selling are going to be low or even negative. A roll of 90% or any multiple thereof works just fine at any coin show.
I'm still partial to 90% simply because I remember when it was money. Pretty soon, it will be almost comparable to having a stash of Barber coinage in the 1960s, except that it will still be more plentiful. yikes!
I knew it would happen.
Ice is nowhere to be found and I'm sure that in a bigger SHTF scene, those with ice and gasoline to spare would be able to demand almost anything. Cash might talk, but many are just stealing generators right now....
We weren't expecting a big storm and long time power outage. I had about 4 gallons of gas for the lawnmower, and my wifes truck only had about 1/4 tank of gas. She was going to fill up on the way to work Saturday. Once there was no power, there was no gas, no traveling to find supplies. I expect in a real disaster, there's not much time to prepare, and then everyone will be looking for the same stuff you're looking for.
If it were a really big disaster, the things we'd need to survive definatley don't include silver....not for the first few days or weeks at least. The limited things we had were a few batteries, one oil lamp with only the oil and wick that's in it and one battery powered emergency light....and now I have a whole list of things I'm going to stock up on.
If you have Air Conditioning right now...be more thankful. If you want to know what you'll need in an emergency, go throw your main breaker right now, throw your car keys in the trash, and see how far you get.
<< <i>I've been without electricity since last Friday (on a generator right now). Satruday, we ran out of gasoline. Late Sunday, we could finally buy gas for the generator.
Ice is nowhere to be found and I'm sure that in a bigger SHTF scene, those with ice and gasoline to spare would be able to demand almost anything. Cash might talk, but many are just stealing generators right now....
Gasoline
Ice
Guns >>
I am sorry for anyone impacted by the recent severe weather.
In my experience the best way to avoid power outages has been to purchase a gas generator. We have it set up to run the essential lights and power the refrigerator, freezers, water and septic pumps, wood stove burner and my in home office.
I say best way to avoid power outages since I have had just one opportunity to use the generator in the last four years. I drag it out of the garage now and again to start it up.
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<< <i>I've been without electricity since last Friday (on a generator right now). Satruday, we ran out of gasoline. Late Sunday, we could finally buy gas for the generator.
Ice is nowhere to be found and I'm sure that in a bigger SHTF scene, those with ice and gasoline to spare would be able to demand almost anything. Cash might talk, but many are just stealing generators right now....
We weren't expecting a big storm and long time power outage. I had about 4 gallons of gas for the lawnmower, and my wifes truck only had about 1/4 tank of gas. She was going to fill up on the way to work Saturday. Once there was no power, there was no gas, no traveling to find supplies. I expect in a real disaster, there's not much time to prepare, and then everyone will be looking for the same stuff you're looking for.
If it were a really big disaster, the things we'd need to survive definatley don't include silver....not for the first few days or weeks at least. The limited things we had were a few batteries, one oil lamp with only the oil and wick that's in it and one battery powered emergency light....and now I have a whole list of things I'm going to stock up on.
If you have Air Conditioning right now...be more thankful. If you want to know what you'll need in an emergency, go throw your main breaker right now, throw your car keys in the trash, and see how far you get. >>
This is a great post, I'll add: for a real drill (or, at least, for a thought experiment), in addition to killing the electricity, also turn off your natural gas at the meter, and shut off your water. Pretend the roads are gridlock or closed at the end of your street, and see how long you can "camp out" at home. Also, see how the relative values of things change: Gold and silver will be practically valueless after a couple of weeks of this (if not immediately), and things like batteries, bottles of water, and propane bbq tanks will become worth small fortunes
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I wish I could've ran into ya. I would have taken that $1 in 90%
Gold and silver work fairly well to survive an economic meltdown...thats about it.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Having gone through 3 days without electricity (small SHTF condition)....most gas stations closed....ATM's not working. Businesses that were opened only accepting CASH because the Cable or Phone lines were down. For experimental purposes, attempted to exchange $1 in 90% halves for $20...guess what, nobody would even consider it. CASH was KING. Thank God I had some.
I wish I could've ran into ya. I would have taken that $1 in 90%
What would you have offered in exchange? Gasoline, Dry Ice, Inverters, Batteries or a gas Generator?
<< <i>
<< <i>Having gone through 3 days without electricity (small SHTF condition)....most gas stations closed....ATM's not working. Businesses that were opened only accepting CASH because the Cable or Phone lines were down. For experimental purposes, attempted to exchange $1 in 90% halves for $20...guess what, nobody would even consider it. CASH was KING. Thank God I had some.
I wish I could've ran into ya. I would have taken that $1 in 90%
What would you have offered in exchange? Gasoline, Dry Ice, Inverters, Batteries or a gas Generator?
Exactly. in a short term "supply disruption" type of SHTF (earthquakes, big storms, blackouts, fires, spills, etc) those with "extras" will profit, but be careful not to "gouge" or some folks might shoot you.
we had a blackout last year that lasted most of a day, but halfway through no one knew how long it would take to get power back on. Everyone's first thought was Cash (the atms and credit card takers were down and almost no retail was open) and light once it got dark (flashlights, batteries, candles, lighters, lanterns), and tfolks' second thought was, "My Freezer!" Ice was what everyone wanted. Gas (all forms) was on the short list, alcohol (all forms) was on the list, bags of munchies were on the list of, "got any?"
precious metals were not.
A man with a big cooler full of dry ice would be very popular
In a Big SHTF (America system dead, every man for himself) the good things to have would be guns, ammo, training (think Mad Max, Snake Plissken) and friends.
Having a cache of canned goods and camping stuff in a remote location would be a great asset, better IMO than metals,
A giant box of precious metals is useful in a very narrow slice of semi-controlled economic disaster (Read up on Argentina) and then, rings and necklaces for the gold, and 90% coins for the silver would probably be better than large bars and certified high grade bullion.
The latter will do well with society generally intact but with an inflationary environment (or the widespread expectation of one, even if it keeps on not coming
A coin collection that you can enjoy numismatically while we're waiting for a specific, highly unlikely Armageddon might be a good strategy
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The end of the world only happens once.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I'd guess that 6-7 days or so of similar (no-electricity or food) disruption would result in a LOT of chaos, especially if in dead of winter or heat of summer (4-5 days?).
The event was a fantastic opportunity to observe what was important. Most of us (society as a whole) are almost completely dependant on a tightly-engineered logistical system that delivers food and fuel. In the unlikely event of a widespread SHTF scenario, the results would be worse than we imagine. 99% of the US is unprepared for 11 days without power, let alone a total SHTF.