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Cracking coins out of slabs because, well, I just hate slabs

Hi everyone, I have a coin collecting dillema that I just can't make my own mind on. I really don't like having my coins in slabs (but I won't buy them without being graded). I like the "feel" of coins in 2x2 paper flips (or airtights) much better than slabs. I also like the fact that I can keep my collection nice and neat uniform and compact.

I realize that by breaking the coins out of the slabs I am instantly losing value, by at least the cost of getting them regraded anyway... However, with grade inflation and changes in the quality and counterfeit resistance of holders wouldn't I just end up sending them all in 20 years from now anyways? I do see lots of coins for sale in the latest gen holders.

My plan would be to keep the original paper insert and glue it to the 2x2's or something like that. Or at least just keep them all as "receipts" and write the grade and TPG on the 2x2's as well as CAC etc.

Is this crazy?
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Comments

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To each his own,but I hope your not cracking out any PCGS/NGC 's? Oh,sorry,but you stunned me what you said,image

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    they're your coins my friend
    looking at alot of my raw purchases...buying slabbed one's puts you ahead of me for the most part
    but no
    you're not krazy...alot of 7070's are filled that way
    you like quality without the mess or guess
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    To my mind, it's not crazy at all. Indeed, your thinking runs parallel to my own. I have cracked out virtually all of the half dimes that I have ever purchased for my reference collection; the only coins that are not presently 'free' from their plastic tombs are the ones that I have simply not had time to crack out.

    There are actually several reasons why I choose not to have my coins entombed in slabs. Some of these reasons include:

    My collection was begun, and many of my coins were purchased, before the advent of slabs
    in 1986. In that time frame, my grading standards have not changed.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, it cannot be properly studied.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, it cannot be weighed.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, the specific gravity cannot be measured, to aid in determining
    authenticity.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, it’s diameter cannot be measured.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, one cannot count the reeds.
    If a coin is in a slab, or holder, one cannot properly photograph the coin.
    I do not need to rely on another’s opinion to determine the grade of my coins.
    I would certainly not want to rely on any third party grading service to properly attribute my
    coins.

    For some of my coins, but certainly not all, I also retain the insert from the old slab, merely for my own reference. As you correctly suggested, when and if I do decide to sell, perhaps many or most will be submitted for slabbing and grading .... at whatever grading standard is current for that day. Meanwhile, I can enjoy and study my coins.
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this the 50 market crash that you were alluding to?image Your coins so your call, but be advised that once they are out of the holder that ALL BETS ARE OFF.
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    if all your coins look like your avatar, then i see no problem.

    And glue the paper label right over the face too with ACC super glue. image


    I guess you could save the labels for your own knowledge, but you show up
    with a coin in one hand and a label in the other, and quess how far you will get????????
  • <Is this the 50 market crash that you were alluding to?>

    Lol! maybe it is! Perhaps that is the reason for my "gut" feeling... I love this board.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes, it is crazy.
  • BillyKingsleyBillyKingsley Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭✭
    I have not done it, I might some day but I have not gotten any for my year sets in slabs yet. As I've stated in the past, I store my collection in the Whitman year set holders. Well, some of it. I never finished buying enough holders.

    One thing to keep in mind, that thread title will probably not be too popular with the board's hosts.
    Billy Kingsley ANA R-3146356 Cardboard History // Numismatic History
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    My collection is raw as well. I have numerous labels pasted in the back of my albums so I can remember the holder if I get curious.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    I think you would get lots of grins and raised eyebrows showing coins with inserts glued to a 2x2 if you ever decided to sell. If you want to keep them to "death do you part" the I guess it does not matter much. If you like them raw then maybe you should buy them raw and get someone you trust to grade them or do it yourself. I think most peoble agree that TPG is not always very consistent anyway and what ever a label says may not hold water with some people.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • I used to hate slabs when I began collecting, I would crack out every coin I bought. A few years ago though, I got really sick, I ended up losing my left arm and came close to losing my life. After that happened it made me think a lot about my family having to deal with my collection after I'm gone. With the coins slabbed I believe it will make it easier for my wife and daughter to liquidate my collection if need be.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it depends on what kind of coins you're talking about. I crack lots of coins out of PCGS and NGC holders, but they tend to be 200 years old and at least a little circulated, so it doesn't matter.

    If I collected coins in certified grades like MS66, 67, 68, or PR68, 69, 70, I would probably leave them in the nice holder rather than risk changing the grade

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,246 ✭✭
    I like to do the opposite, I buy raw coins, study them and admire them, then I send them off for grading if they are worth getting slabbed. My reason is the slab protects them and gives future buyers reassurance.
    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • pantherpanther Posts: 395
    I have it both ways.
    I have My registry set and I have my Raw and crackout quarters in an 2 old Wayte Raymond books.
    The books are still a work in progress but I am close to filling them with MS-65 or better.
    I have more fun looking at My books. So My answer would be to crack away!

    edited to say i wouldn't crack out anything expensive!

    image

    image

    image
  • <I think you would get lots of grins and raised eyebrows showing coins with inserts glued to a 2x2 if you ever decided to sell>

    True, but after looking at 50 coins or so, wouldnt the potential buyer (assuming he knows coins) start to realize that I was being honest? But in general yes I agree -- the coins would need to be regraded before selling. Or I could do like some coin dealers and mark each coin a grade higher (since I know the real grade) and then haggle with them from there. If they accuse me of overgrading I can always just compare my raw coins to one of their raw coins and then tell them "grading is subjective."
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Once you crack out a coin, the label is worthless since there is no way to prove that any label goes with any specific coin. Also, you will lose the grade and authenticity guarantee and, for many coins, liquidity when it comes time to sell.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My core collection is slabbed. I do have raw coins in albums and various loose, raw coins in envelopes, flips, and air-tights. The raw coins tend to be lower in value than the slabbed coins.

    Is this crazy?

    If you enjoy it, and no one is harmed, it is as rational as anything else in this hobby.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cracked out any doily holders or ngc black slabs lately? image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I crack out my ancients when I end up buying one slabbed. Horrible to keep them in plastic tombs.

    I do keep the tickets though.

    image
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if you are not concerned with the monetary value of your collection
    crack away
    LCoopie = Les
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you are collecting coins which you consider to be inexpensive, no harm no foul. Otherwise, others above have said what I have to say.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • Is there any disadvantage to storing coins in 2x2's over the slabs? Assuming that the storage area itself is dry and safe?

    I fully understand that I will lose the value of the cost to re-grade the coins and would likely have to have them regraded come selling time. So really we are talking about that cost and the risk some coins come back with a lower grade...

    Another thought - I wish the grading services would use an expanded system like MS 63.8 or .63.1 etc for MS coins. Seems like they needlessly created competition from CAC.
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is there any disadvantage to storing coins in 2x2's over the slabs? Assuming that the storage area itself is dry and safe? >>

    Just be sure that the 2x2s that you are using do not contain PVC (most don't, but some do), and beware of staples!!!




    << <i>Another thought - I wish the grading services would use an expanded system like MS 63.8 or .63.1 etc for MS coins. Seems like they needlessly created competition from CAC. >>

    Now THAT is another topic altogether! image
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, crazy! If you ever want to sell them one day you will wish you had kept them in slabs. My .02.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi everyone, I have a coin collecting dillema that I just can't make my own mind on. I really don't like having my coins in slabs (but I won't buy them without being graded). I like the "feel" of coins in 2x2 paper flips (or airtights) much better than slabs. I also like the fact that I can keep my collection nice and neat uniform and compact.

    I realize that by breaking the coins out of the slabs I am instantly losing value, by at least the cost of getting them regraded anyway... However, with grade inflation and changes in the quality and counterfeit resistance of holders wouldn't I just end up sending them all in 20 years from now anyways? I do see lots of coins for sale in the latest gen holders.

    My plan would be to keep the original paper insert and glue it to the 2x2's or something like that. Or at least just keep them all as "receipts" and write the grade and TPG on the 2x2's as well as CAC etc.

    Is this crazy? >>

    Good Luck on getting your coins regraded at the grade for which you purchased them. You are not the fisrt Coin Slab Don Quixote and I'm sure you'll not be the last to learn the hard way. Coins are slabbed for a reason. That reason is the assurance that if the coin is not accurately graded then you can use the buy back guarantee.

    Once you crack the coin out though, paper slip or not, all bets are off and it may take more than one submission to get it back into its original graded holder. It could be a very expensive position.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • PCcoinsPCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I like to do the opposite, I buy raw coins, study them and admire them, then I send them off for grading if they are worth getting slabbed. My reason is the slab protects them and gives future buyers reassurance. >>



    +1


    This is the best response yet, but it really depends on what you collect. I understand cracking old circulated coins, but I can't crack out any pcgs ms67 washingtons... They are tough enough to make, so it would be crazy unless the coin had a chance to upgrade? If you plan to never sell your coins it makes sense to keep them raw, but then after you are gone the coins are left raw to your family, which I'm sure doesn't know what to do with them to get the best value for them.
    "It is what it is."
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just love the title of your post. I too hate slabs as I have so many of em they become a real problem to store away in the safe. Running out of room I am.....Joe
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is this the 50 market crash that you were alluding to?image >>

    Perhaps it is since once the coins are cracked, they immediately lose value not to mention adding authenticity questionability to each piece.

    Is it crazy?

    Some folks don't want to believe that shooting yourself in the foot is crazy but my common sense tells me otherwise.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭
    What kinda coins are we talking here? Personally I think it is foolish from a value/monetary sense. You made the coins less liquid. Sure you can get them regraded if you choose to sell but what if something unexpected happened and your heirs are left with your collection? Lastly, I suspect there could be some surprises regarding regrading. Once gain, I don't know what coins you have but obviously there can be huge price differences from one grade to another. You may also have already paid up when you bought the coin certified and then you take it right back to raw value when cracking it.

    I respect your feelings on wanted them not in slabs though as that is personal preference. But I just think it is a scary.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi everyone, I have a coin collecting dillema that I just can't make my own mind on. I really don't like having my coins in slabs (but I won't buy them without being graded). I like the "feel" of coins in 2x2 paper flips (or airtights) much better than slabs. I also like the fact that I can keep my collection nice and neat uniform and compact.

    I realize that by breaking the coins out of the slabs I am instantly losing value, by at least the cost of getting them regraded anyway... However, with grade inflation and changes in the quality and counterfeit resistance of holders wouldn't I just end up sending them all in 20 years from now anyways? I do see lots of coins for sale in the latest gen holders.

    My plan would be to keep the original paper insert and glue it to the 2x2's or something like that. Or at least just keep them all as "receipts" and write the grade and TPG on the 2x2's as well as CAC etc.

    Is this crazy? >>



    Yup it is IMO. Dealers just love collectors like you.
    image
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it is crazy. Once you crack it out that label is worth SQUAT!!
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If each coin in your collection is worth less than $100 or so, then it probably won't hurt too bad in the long run.

    On second thought, how many coins do you have? Even at less than $100 apiece, this could become an expensive mistake pretty quickly.

    I think you're crazy.

    As others have said, keeping the label won't make much difference once the coin is out of the slab.

    You assume you're going to keep every coin you currently own for 20 years...I seriously doubt you will. And when the time does come to sell, having your coins slabbed by PCGS or NGC will help you get more money for them.

    Meantime, they would be a lot better protected in the slab than in 2x2.

    Slabs really don't take up that much room.

    I wouldn't have a raw coin in my collection valued more than about $50.
  • CalebCaleb Posts: 739


    << <i>Is this crazy? >>



    "To each their own." But I think another famous saying may apply image

    "A fool and his money are soon parted" image
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well I guess we now know why you think coins are going to be worth about half shortly.image

    image
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yep thats a crazy plan, its your collection/coins and you are free to do with them what you want, but think about this. Not only are you taking a big risk but we are only custodians of these coins for a period of time and then thay are passed on to another collector for him/her to take care of for a time. How we care for the coins we collect directly impacts the quality of coins we leave behind for new collectors, while I agree that coins are more pleasing raw thay are better protected in plastic.

    On a good note the stockholders of the TPG's are salvating at the new revenue you represent when you need to send in X number of coins for regrade sometime down the road.
    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,246 ✭✭
    Another thing to keep in mind is some collectors keep a raw type set a well as graded coins. Usually the type set is not top notch, but as others have said circulated to an extent. I have coins valued up to around $500 raw, but they are circulated coins in my type album that where bought raw. I like to enjoy my coins and I like the way a raw coin feels in my hand compared to a slab, but its also nice to really let someone else take a look sometimes and that would never happen with a coin worth showing off if it was not in a slab, not even a 2x2 or hard coin tight. They just don't offer the protection of slab IMHO. A lot of posters here are giving you good advice, you might not think your gonna sell anytime soon but wait till that piece shows up you've been dreaming about and are short on funds. Those easily replaceable coins will come to mind as a source of money, but your gonna find it hard to get your monies worth with raw coins. BTW most dealers are not gonna let you compare a grade point to his coins and work from there, to a dealer if he can't get the coins for the right price he don't need the coins period, some might even show you the door. You better learn the market cause even selling to collectors and on ebay people want certified coins or they go for less.
    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like 1994 all over again when the investors left the market and the collectors returned at lower prices just right before coin prices took off again.image
    Anyone else remember $500 MS65 common date Morgans back in the 80's?
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • This is all great advice. Thanks everyone. Any tips on storing/organizing slabbed coins that makes it more fun and uniform?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is all great advice. Thanks everyone. Any tips on storing/organizing slabbed coins that makes it more fun and uniform? >>


    Yes, have all of your coins in PCGS slabs and slab boxes with CAC stickers. image
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, what RYK said!

    +1
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is all great advice. Thanks everyone. Any tips on storing/organizing slabbed coins that makes it more fun and uniform? >>



    How I did one of my sets....
    image

    Empty slots were coins stored in my SDB at the Credit Union.
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frank visits the shop. He's a type set collector. When and if he finds the coins he wants and they're in a holder, he buys them and he cracks them out. A couple of times he's asked me why I send them in to get slabbed, but he never questions the price for the grade assigned by the TPG.

    I advised him to leave them in the slab, but he likes them in the hole.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I realize that by breaking the coins out of the slabs I am instantly losing value, by at least the cost of getting them regraded anyway... However, with grade inflation and changes in the quality and counterfeit resistance of holders wouldn't I just end up sending them all in 20 years from now anyways? I do see lots of coins for sale in the latest gen holders. >>



    You should watch out for grade deflation. If you crack out a gradeflated coin, you might not be able to get that grade again.

    Also some collectors tend to perfer older stabs like OGHs which are used an indicator for the stability of a coin.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyone else remember $500 MS65 common date Morgans back in the 80's?

    weren't they close to that within the last year for a short time, maybe $300??
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are not crazy at all nor is cracking coins out of slabs....or putting coins in slabs crazy.
    Just remember if you crack then to keep them safe from physical damage, like dropping them, and safe from environmental damage, like storing them in Taco Bell napkins.
    Also realize that slabs are usually an easier sell, because there are more plastic dependent weenies than there are real collectors out there.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭
    You're not crazy at all. Frankly, coin collecting by definition is not primarily concerned with the monetary value of coins (except when purchased). Any desire for a slab is just a social construction, and any claims to necessity are lacking in being consistent with the actual history of numismatics. Slabs are also only considered "good" so long as slabbing companies exist, and some of us are going to outlast them, and thus any guarantees they offer.

    As to authenticity, if anything, slabs are a negative. Obviously raw coins can be authenticated, as otherwise slabbed coins could not have an authenticity guarantee. And, for the most part, even considering recent developments, it doesn't take much study to be able to be confidant in at least 99% of what you may encounter (there are exceptions, but with study you'll realize what they are). Think of all the threads of people asking if something is real or not. If slabs were needed, all of those threads would be answered "I don't know" for any raw coin. Plus, once in a slab, a coin can no longer be comprehensively studied, as Barndog noted earlier.

    With regards to grading, well, let's be honest. The current number of grades we have (even before pluses were introduced) implies more precision than is possible for most collectors (if not all), implies that grading is a metric and a well-defined scale, is ultimately unsustainable, and readily leads to pseudo-scientific interpretations as to what grades are. And the grade/price continuum is also unsustainable; a lot of high grade coins, classic and modern, are not truly condition rarities, but just statistical noise that happened to be categorized differently than other nearly identical coins. And, given time, whether slabbed or raw, such coins will drop in value. Plus, there is the issue that we should really consider that the value of a coin is constant irregardless of what type of holder it is in, and thus, any "slab premium" is nothing more than an overpayment.

    And I live up to "raw is good." I have cracked out, with only a couple of exceptions, any coins I have purchased that happened to be in slabs. This includes items which have been nearly the most expensive I have purchased. The few exceptions have been certain error coins, purchased already in slabs, which I consider may be fragile enough to be in a hard plastic holder, and that it'd be safer, if they are in such, to keep them in one rather than transferring them to a different hard plastic holder. And, when purchased raw, there are other such holders other than slabs, and of course, plenty cheaper.

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good post Realone.

    Just to add - a few years ago, I showed a high end (read $$) coin in a PCGS slab to a veteran dealer who I like and respect, and who has a solid reputation in the hobby. When he took the coin from my hand, he immediately dropped it on the concrete floor (we were at a convention in Baltimore). It was an accident that can happen to anybody. Since that drop was from about 5 feet, I'm pretty sure that coin would have been damaged pretty badly if it were not in the PCGS holder. A 2x2 certainly would not have protected it.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Expensive lesson Realone, but at least you did learn! Some never will I guess!
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is there any disadvantage to storing coins in 2x2's over the slabs? Assuming that the storage area itself is dry and safe?

    I fully understand that I will lose the value of the cost to re-grade the coins and would likely have to have them regraded come selling time. So really we are talking about that cost and the risk some coins come back with a lower grade...
    >>



    Some might come back in a bodybag. Suggestion - If you don't want to deal with slabs, stick with inexpensive raw coins that you like. The idea of intentionally pi**ing money away makes no sense whatsoever, unless it's money that you won't miss.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."

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