I took a little beating on eBay sales and learned a lesson

judgebuck · June 27, 2012 4:05AM

A week or so ago, I decided to auction some raw and graded vintage baseball cards on eBay starting at $0.99. I had been unsuccessful in offering them earlier at BIN set prices or even at BIN with Best Offer. Here were my sales results on the graded cards:

1955 Bowman Hank Aaron PSA 4.5 $46.00
1955 Bowman Willie Mays PSA 3 $24.54
1966 Topps Sandy Koufax PSA 5.5 $22.24
1958 Topps Ted Williams #1 PSA 4.5 $89.88
1957 Topps Red Schoendienst PSA 6.5 started at $9.99 and had no bids
1964 Topps Dal Maxvill high no. PSA 8 $19.99
1970 Topps Hank Aaron PSA 8 $117.71

All cards went well below SMR and well below what was expected. I know I didn't use probstein or other high profile sellers for consignment, but I do have many feedbacks (over 1750) and a 100% feedback rating. My scans weren't bad, either. Is the market for mid-grade vintage baseball cards so soft that this is a great time to buy? Did I go wrong in just listing the cards at $0.99?

firedawg45 · June 27, 2012 4:12AM

guess you need some shillers like the others..just sayin

BaltimoreYankee · June 27, 2012 4:14AM

Lower grades of PSA cards seem to be a great deal on eBay, expecially 1950's and '60's. Many of the people who collect PSA cards look for higher grades, leaving the lower end stuff to folks who get some nice bargains.

olb31 · June 27, 2012 4:18AM

<< guess you need some shillers like the others..just sayin >>

I am kinda with firedawg. I have should nearly 900 items on EBAY and very rarily so I get 10 - 15 bids on any one item. And then you see some items have 50 or bids, just doesn't add up. I am guessing that some people have a small "network" of bidders that scratch each others backs.

jeffcbay · June 27, 2012 4:19AM

Wow...

BaltimoreYankee · June 27, 2012 4:20AM

I always look at completed items on eBay before listing stuff to see if it's worth doing.

Searching under "1955 Bowman PSA 3", the following prices were realized for HOFers: Lemon $7.50, Wynn $4.50, Campanella $18, Reese (one for $10, one for $14). A Ralph Kiner couldn't get a minimum bid of $12. Granted, these guys aren't Mays and Aaron but still, lower grade cards don't generate many bids.

Boopotts · June 27, 2012 4:24AM

I wouldn't be too upset. With the exception of the '55 Mays everything seems to have closed within roughly 80% of VCP, which is about what you can expect for the average auction. Remember, the VCP price is for ALL sales; not just for auctions. Thus, the VCP average includes sales from sellers who were willing to waitwaitwaitwait for their price, and those prices are almost always going to be higher than what a comparable card would sell for at auction.

This is one of the reasons I get a kick out of people looking for 'VCP average' (or more) on the BST boards. If you're a patient seller, then yes- the VCP average is probably a good guide. If you want to sell the card in the next week, however, you should adjust your price downward.

jeff8877 · June 27, 2012 4:25AM

I always set my open auction price for the least that I am willing to take. Usually look at completed items and set about 10% below. That way you can't get totally screwed if you only get one bid. Sorry about the results.

Jeff

itzagoner · June 27, 2012 4:51AM

<< Wow... >>

yeah.

jimrad · June 27, 2012 5:03AM

First lesson should be - Do not look at SMR, I don't think it is reliable for any price information.

Does anyone out there think that the SMR has credibility?

Probstein123 · June 27, 2012 5:07AM

its mostly about eyeballs.....

itzagoner · June 27, 2012 5:12AM

<< Did I go wrong in just listing the cards at $0.99? >>

no. not if you really wanted to sell all of them.

let me give you a recent example of my experience with "VCP average", mid-grade vintage and the perception of indifference amongst bidders:

i put together a nice listing of items which came out to roughly $3,000 in the so-called VCP price average for recent sales, and wound up realizing $2,965 in eBay sales.

some cards went for substantially more than the published average because they were nicer examples of cards which sold on fewer occasions than several of the mid-grade stars and HOFer's, some of which realized near average, others fell short, but the common trait they all shared is that many examples of the same card in the same grade had already been sold at auction this year or before.

the amount of exposure we smaller sellers get as opposed to the big-time auction guys will limit the number of watchers, as well as the number of bids. settle for what you get as a seller for your mid-grade product, because you aren't offering anything special or different than the other guy.

if you want more eyes and more bidders for your stuff, spend the extra dough and ship it to Probstein and then post another thread to tell everyone how well you did.

KbKards · June 27, 2012 5:12AM

No offense but most of the cards on your list aren't very hot auction cards. About the only card from your list that would benefit from being sold by an auction house like Probstein would be the 1970 Aaron in PSA 8. You got $117.71 and Probstein just got $123.51. Giving it to Probstein and having to pay his fees on top of Ebay fess would have gotten you way less than what you'll net selling it yourself at $117.71.

smtjoy · June 27, 2012 5:32AM

I think you got about what they should have sold for, the cards you are selling are trending down, they are common with many for sale at any given time and I would expect then to sell for a little less than VCP (throw out SMR and next time you sell get a one day VCP so you know prices). The cards I see that get bidding wars on them are highest graded, 1/1 types or just scarce cards that only come up for auction less than a year, these have a pent up demand or the got to have factor that can drive prices.

addicted2ebay · June 27, 2012 5:52AM

Seems like a lot of folks are in vacation mode, also it is a election year (just 5 months away).

jimrad · June 27, 2012 6:09AM

<< Seems like a lot of folks are in vacation mode, also it is a election year (just 5 months away). >>

Really? Who's running?

Juggs · June 27, 2012 6:13AM

I'm just the kind of cheap SOB that buys that exact stuff. The prices you got aren't really far off of what that stuff goes for on Ebay (at least from what I've seen).

dmurphy3mvp · June 27, 2012 6:25AM

<< Seems like a lot of folks are in vacation mode, also it is a election year (just 5 months away). >>

I'm curious to know how and why an election year might play a factor here. I've never heard this as a reason for why anything should or shouldn't happen (granted I'm a card dealer, so I don't read a lot.) I know there have been articles written on what happens to the market and the economy *after* a Presidential election, but never leading up to one.

halosfan · June 27, 2012 7:06AM

I guess I missed the lesson

NSibian · June 27, 2012 7:07AM

<< 

<< Seems like a lot of folks are in vacation mode, also it is a election year (just 5 months away). >>

I'm curious to know how and why an election year might play a factor here. I've never heard this as a reason for why anything should or shouldn't happen (granted I'm a card dealer, so I don't read a lot.) I know there have been articles written on what happens to the market and the economy *after* a Presidential election, but never leading up to one. >>

Cliff Note's version.....he's a troll trying to earn respect and trust by building his post count.

judgebuck · June 27, 2012 7:27AM

Thanks so much for all the comments. I did check out eBay Completed Listings a couple of weeks before listing the cards. That's was when I set prices at BIN and got no action.

I sold a ton of stuff through Probstein last year and had great results. I think he is right when he says "it's mostly about eyeballs." Since these few cards were mostly minor stuff, I thought I'd do it myself. Not good, but I not going to lose sleep over the overall poor results.

As for the comment wondering what lesson I learned, I did notice that I forgot to put that in the original post. For me, the lesson is to either consign it to Rick or someone whose listings get more eyeballs than my listings, or try to sell by starting the minimum bid at the very least I would take for the card and then maybe lower it another 10%. However, even that has often resulting in no bids.

Thanks again to everyone for commenting.

SDavid · June 27, 2012 7:55AM

You'll do fine selling them yourself if you can offer a lot of similar listings at once. That's the main advantage that big sellers have in terms of getting eyeballs and bids. With some items--ie a tough low pop that the top buyers have in their saved searches--it's less of an issue.

handyman · June 27, 2012 8:06AM

Money in hand. Who knows how long you would have to wait to get what you wanted.

DCanfield · June 27, 2012 9:57AM

<< 

<< guess you need some shillers like the others..just sayin >>

I am kinda with firedawg. I have should nearly 900 items on EBAY and very rarily so I get 10 - 15 bids on any one item. And then you see some items have 50 or bids, just doesn't add up. I am guessing that some people have a small "network" of bidders that scratch each others backs.

>>

Do you think? It's tough when you play by the rules.

JAG85 · June 27, 2012 10:15AM

I currently have about 16 1934 Goudey cards graded PSA 5/6 NQ on the Bay right now. I think I will share in your experience. Members: let me know if you want any of them. I am sure we can work something out. Email is jeffreyagross@gmail.com Ebay id = jg8422jeffrey Perhaps I should have started them at the lowest amount I would accept?

JHS5120 · June 27, 2012 11:44AM

It might be attributed to the $4.50 parcel post shipping and handling. Just saying.

judgebuck · June 27, 2012 11:55AM

You know, I did have the buyer of the 1958 Topps Ted Williams PSA 4.5 ask about why the S & H was $4.50. It cost me $5.15 to ship it with delivery confirmation and insurance. What should I have done?

JHS5120 · June 27, 2012 12:04PM

Buy postage through ebay and attach the printout to the bubble mailer.

My postage costs:

Postage - First class 3 oz. package w/ DC = $1.64
Kraft #000 Bubble Mailer = $.07
Tape, Paper, Ink = $.08 +/- .02
Total = $1.79 (or so)

I run 95% of my auctions at $.99 w/ free shipping and I am always very happy with my results.

judgebuck · June 27, 2012 12:13PM

True, I have wasted money by paying the P.O. $0.85 for delivery confirmation. But, where do I get the bubble mailer for $0.07 each?

bobbyw8469 · June 27, 2012 12:18PM

Kraft #000 Bubble Mailer = $.07

That seems awful small for graded cards. Are you also separately bubble wrapping the cards individually or just putting the graded card in the bubble mailer without any protection?

JHS5120 · June 27, 2012 12:36PM

<< True, I have wasted money by paying the P.O. $0.85 for delivery confirmation. But, where do I get the bubble mailer for $0.07 each? >>

I buy bulk

Link

<< Kraft #000 Bubble Mailer = $.07

That seems awful small for graded cards. Are you also separately bubble wrapping the cards individually or just putting the graded card in the bubble mailer without any protection? >>

For <$100 cards I have used just the #000 with no issue. I have had no problem fitting up to 2 PSA, 1 SGC or 1 BVG snug. I find that they're small enough and secure enough to travel safely. Larger (or more expensive) orders I use Kraft #0, small flat rate priority boxes or those awesome PSA boxes you get with orders. I'm a Power Seller/Top-Rated Seller, never had a major complaint and I have 5.0 across the board.

cardbender · June 27, 2012 1:18PM

I've received cracked PSA holders of cards sent in OOO size mailers.

I'd recommend all sellers use O size mailers for any graded cards and
add some cardboard or extra bubble wrap around the card for
shipping protection.

You can buy O size mailers for around 10 cents each in bulk online.

grote15 · June 27, 2012 1:36PM

<< I've received cracked PSA holders of cards sent in OOO size mailers.

I'd recommend all sellers use O size mailers for any graded cards and
add some cardboard or extra bubble wrap around the card for
shipping protection.

You can buy O size mailers for around 10 cents each in bulk online. >>

I also recommend using the 0 mailers as the 000 mailers really don't offer proper protection, imo.

HoneyBadger · June 27, 2012 5:50PM

Prices are about right. The stuff is low grade except for the Aaron.

Boo Potts hit the round tripper again!

jeffcbay · June 27, 2012 8:58PM

I use the #0 for graded cards, and fold the mailer inn half to add extra strength and padding to it. What I don't like is when sellers use #0 mailers and just throw the graded card by itself in there and let it float all around (cough 4SC cough). Never received a cracked slab, but I'm sure it happens to others.

corvette1340 · June 27, 2012 9:47PM

#000 are fine. I've shipped thousands of graded cards in them and have had zero problems. The key is putting a piece of thin, but firm, cardboard on the front and back of the case before you put it in the mailer. Cutting up small flat rate USPS boxes to fit the cards has worked great for me. Delivery conf. for those that cost less than $100, sig. conf for those that cost over $100.

JoeBanzai · June 28, 2012 1:53AM

I agree with the OP on "Learning a lesson".

I started a bunch of auctions at .99 and ended up selling a $20-$30 item for .99. I now practice patience with selling. I too check completed auctions, and list my items below the average of what these items went for in the past.

I can't afford to give my items away for next to nothing. Eventually, the item will sell, even if you have to relist at a lower opening bid, at least you get most of the items value.

Joe

LochNESS · June 28, 2012 7:15AM

Re: shill bidders and scratching backs, I definitely agree that on eBay it's all about having an audience. Obviously I don't condone shill bidding but I know for a fact that it happens on eBay. I have had dealers tell me, flat out, that they routinely bid on their dealer friends’ auctions. Their reason is simple: if they end up winning, they get good items at great prices which they can quickly resell for profit. By some definitions their actions may not even be considered shill bids. But they are by eBay definitions. Bottom line, the mega Seller's $0.99 auctions are never true $0.99 auctions. You'd be lucky to get anything below 75% market. Whereas yours might actually sell for $0.99.

mtcards · June 28, 2012 11:45PM

Again, people are assuming that everyone buys bubble mailers in bulk and everyone wants to printout and buy shipping online and everyone pays the same for every single item. $4.50 for shipping a card you bought for $10 is the same as charging $3.00 shipping for a card you bought for $11.50...you still pay the same.

Plus, if you charge $4.50 for shipping, you are only getting around $4.05 of it since ebay/paypal donks you for nearly 10%

People who go through ebay listings and actuall ASK the seller why his shipping is xxxx have to be the biggest DB's in the history of ebay.

Edited to add: I charge $2.95 for auctions, plus .50 for additional items up to $4.95, so no, I charge less than most. I just think its ridiculous that people sometimes get an item for half what it usually goes for then complains about an extra buck in shipping

itzagoner · June 29, 2012 12:13AM

how did this train veer off from sensible sales techniques to a bubble mailer/shipping debate? only here.

telephoto1 · June 29, 2012 1:48AM

<< Again, people are assuming that everyone buys bubble mailers in bulk and everyone wants to printout and buy shipping online and everyone pays the same for every single item. $4.50 for shipping a card you bought for $10 is the same as charging $3.00 shipping for a card you bought for $11.50...you still pay the same.

Plus, if you charge $4.50 for shipping, you are only getting around $4.05 of it since ebay/paypal donks you for nearly 10%

People who go through ebay listings and actuall ASK the seller why his shipping is xxxx have to be the biggest DB's in the history of ebay.

Edited to add: I charge $2.95 for auctions, plus .50 for additional items up to $4.95, so no, I charge less than most. I just think its ridiculous that people sometimes get an item for half what it usually goes for then complains about an extra buck in shipping >>

What he said. ^
In my experience, serious collectors aren't going to sweat you over a buck on shipping. People who do are usually just looking for rips and aren't likely going to win anyway, if they even bid at all. If they do win, I guarantee if they are going to nickel/dime you on shipping, they'll nickel/dime you on the item as well.

thunderdan · June 29, 2012 4:25AM

<< how did this train veer off from sensible sales techniques to a bubble mailer/shipping debate? only here.

>>

It's all about shipping, Jeff. Have you been asleep the last 2 1/2 years?

In the 1980's, it was all about ball bearings. In the 1990's, it was all about Bob Saget. In the 2000's, it was all about neurotic Red Sox fans finally finding some peace in life, and in the 2010's, it is all about shipping charges and rating stars on eBay.

DavidPuddy · June 29, 2012 5:32AM

<< In the 1980's, it was all about ball bearings. >>

bobbyw8469 · June 30, 2012 11:19PM

Judge Buck...I am experiencing the same as you on Ebay. I listed some 1933 Sport Kings graded cards, and could barely get past the 99 cent opening bids. It cost more to grade the cards than what the current bids were bringing with 12 hours to go. I don't know what is going on with Ebay, but unless you are one of the big two sellers, the bids are pretty pathetic. Not what is used to be as little as 3 years ago......

swartz1 · July 1, 2012 6:53AM

Put them in your store with a high BIN / better offer...

or consign...

I took a little beating on eBay sales and learned a lesson

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