I can understand the angst when you aren't offered what you think an item is worth, but IMO whether or not the person sold it to you is immaterial and should neither add to nor subtract from the value. I lose patience with those with the mindset that just because someone sold you something, they are somehow obligated to buy it back-and if they do, it had better be at a profit, or no less than a breakeven- or else they're a crook. If someone offers me something I try to be as fair as possible regardless of whether I owned the piece before or not. If that means a profit to the other party, awesome... but that's not always the case, and when it's not, it isn't because I'm trying to hose him.
Some things to consider (Common sense perhaps, but it seems that common sense is often in short supply):
a) Markets change. If the market rises, great- but if it stays the same or drops, then obviously he has to offer something less to make a profit. And I have news for you... depending on the item, 5% isn't going to work for most guys unless it's an easy flip. The exception to this would be something like gold bullion, but that's not what's being discussed here. b) Inventory levels change. If he has 10 of the same thing in stock that he's not selling, then why is he going to want to pay all the money for a 11th example? c) Interest levels change, i.e., certain numismatic areas go through hot and cold periods. If you bought 1999 silver proof sets at $350-$400 do you really expect a profit selling them now? d) Cash flow. Every business has cash flow issues at times, and has to make hard decisions as to whether something is a smart purchase for them at the time. And though you try to accomodate as much as possible, sometimes you end up disappointing someone. That could mean anything from a lower than normal offer, to a better trade deal vs. cash, or just passing altogether. e) A coin dealer isn't an ATM. The notion that you can just drop something on him whenever you want cash flow, have a dupe or find an upgrade/something you like better, and expect to get all the money for it at your pleasure- well, that's not always going to work so well.
Bottom Line-The dealer is a businessman. And a business has to make money to continue as a business. Just throwing it out there for consideration. No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said).
Certain dealers are known to "buy back strong" while others are known not to. I believe there was a list of the buy back strong dealers in a thread that was literally called "Dealers that buy back strong" but I can't find it now.
Here are two related threads I found while looking for that one.
This first thead deals with dealers that buy back strong:
<< <i> it requires that one owns quality material and is working with a quality dealer. >>
it is difficult to know when you are looking at true quality material and exactly who is a quality dealer...when you are starting out or even an industrious novice. >>
I think it takes a bit more effort to recogize true quality material than a quality dealer. A good dealer can help you find quality material and these forums, among other places, are a good place to learn about some higher quality dealers that buy back strong.
when I am working with the right dealer and the right coin, I offer it back. The two way street works well with the specialized stuff I collect and typically, the few dealers I buy from are appreciative and fair
The point made was not whether a dealer is obligated to purchase an item back. The point is when you attempt to sell items to a dealer that he sold to you, but in respect to the current difference in grades between these 2 items.
When the dealer sells an item as an uncirculated specimen. And one might say that a novice might not be well versed in grading, and might overpay for an overgraded an item then the term is he is buried. But when you have the knowledge to accurately grade items, and the dealer sells an item as an uncirculated specimen, and you both concur. However the frustration and the betrayal occurs when the dealer will take the note or coin graded MS 62/64 (and you both agree), and offers to purchase the item but now grades the item as a XF 45? The price is irrelevant, its the gaal to believe that is an exceptable business practice. It really destroys the dealer-customer trust.
I do not feel that if I purchase an item the dealer is obligated to buy the piece back. But I often offer pieces back to dealers to see if the integrity that often times seems to be present on the selling portion, is also their on the buying portion.
I love B&Ms. My time in the military has given me the oppurtunity to visit B&Ms. I spent 3 years in DC, and attended every coin show within 120 miles of the area. I believe while my age is a factor, at age 26, I often have felt under estimated or taken for a fool. I have taken the time to learn this hobby, and have taken the advice of purchasing the book before the coin. while I don't have the knowledge of some of the posters on this forum, I feel like I am doing ok.
Its a shame when you have an area that has such a rich potential for the hobby, but you have a dealer who is no better than a hotel buyer.
WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
<< <i>However the frustration and the betrayal occurs when the dealer will take the note or coin graded MS 62/64 (and you both agree), and offers to purchase the item but now grades the item as a XF 45? The price is irrelevant, its the gaal to believe that is an exceptable business practice. It really destroys the dealer-customer trust [....]
Its a shame when you have an area that has such a rich potential for the hobby, but you have a dealer who is no better than a hotel buyer. >>
This hobby has had dealers like this for a very long time. This is one of the reasons for the success of the TPGs.
Try finding a better dealer that fits your interests. There are some great ones out there.
<< <i> No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said). >>
No doubt. One one hand, dealers get criticized for having no interest in coins aside from caring about how much money they can make on a deal. And on the other hand, criticized when they refuse to sell some cool stuff they brought to display in their cases at shows to let people see coins they might not otherwise get a chance to see.
<< <i> No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said). >>
No doubt. One one hand, dealers get criticized for having no interest in coins aside from caring about how much money they can make on a deal. And on the other hand, criticized when they refuse to sell some cool stuff they brought to display in their cases at shows to let people see coins they might not otherwise get a chance to see. >>
Interestingly enough the indignation disappears when crowing about their latest cherrypick from said dealer's stock box...
Comments
I regard pcgs and ngc the same and like them both
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I lose patience with those with the mindset that just because someone sold you something, they are somehow obligated to buy it back-and if they do, it had better be at a profit, or no less than a breakeven- or else they're a crook. If someone offers me something I try to be as fair as possible regardless of whether I owned the piece before or not. If that means a profit to the other party, awesome... but that's not always the case, and when it's not, it isn't because I'm trying to hose him.
Some things to consider (Common sense perhaps, but it seems that common sense is often in short supply):
a) Markets change. If the market rises, great- but if it stays the same or drops, then obviously he has to offer something less to make a profit. And I have news for you... depending on the item, 5% isn't going to work for most guys unless it's an easy flip. The exception to this would be something like gold bullion, but that's not what's being discussed here.
b) Inventory levels change. If he has 10 of the same thing in stock that he's not selling, then why is he going to want to pay all the money for a 11th example?
c) Interest levels change, i.e., certain numismatic areas go through hot and cold periods. If you bought 1999 silver proof sets at $350-$400 do you really expect a profit selling them now?
d) Cash flow. Every business has cash flow issues at times, and has to make hard decisions as to whether something is a smart purchase for them at the time. And though you try to accomodate as much as possible, sometimes you end up disappointing someone. That could mean anything from a lower than normal offer, to a better trade deal vs. cash, or just passing altogether.
e) A coin dealer isn't an ATM. The notion that you can just drop something on him whenever you want cash flow, have a dupe or find an upgrade/something you like better, and expect to get all the money for it at your pleasure- well, that's not always going to work so well.
Bottom Line-The dealer is a businessman. And a business has to make money to continue as a business.
Just throwing it out there for consideration. No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Here are two related threads I found while looking for that one.
This first thead deals with dealers that buy back strong:
Longacre: If a dealer typically has a strong buy-back policy, under what circumstances is it OK for him to refuse a buyback?
This second deals with dealers that don't:
Coinosaurus: Why Do We Rag on Dealers Who Don't Support Two-Way Markets?
<< <i>
<< <i> it requires that one owns quality material and is working with a quality dealer. >>
it is difficult to know when you are looking at true quality material and exactly who is a quality dealer...when you are starting out or even an industrious novice. >>
I think it takes a bit more effort to recogize true quality material than a quality dealer. A good dealer can help you find quality material and these forums, among other places, are a good place to learn about some higher quality dealers that buy back strong.
When the dealer sells an item as an uncirculated specimen. And one might say that a novice might not be well versed in grading, and might overpay for an overgraded an item then the term is he is buried. But when you have the knowledge to accurately grade items, and the dealer sells an item as an uncirculated specimen, and you both concur. However the frustration and the betrayal occurs when the dealer will take the note or coin graded MS 62/64 (and you both agree), and offers to purchase the item but now grades the item as a XF 45? The price is irrelevant, its the gaal to believe that is an exceptable business practice. It really destroys the dealer-customer trust.
I do not feel that if I purchase an item the dealer is obligated to buy the piece back. But I often offer pieces back to dealers to see if the integrity that often times seems to be present on the selling portion, is also their on the buying portion.
I love B&Ms. My time in the military has given me the oppurtunity to visit B&Ms. I spent 3 years in DC, and attended every coin show within 120 miles of the area. I believe while my age is a factor, at age 26, I often have felt under estimated or taken for a fool. I have taken the time to learn this hobby, and have taken the advice of purchasing the book before the coin. while I don't have the knowledge of some of the posters on this forum, I feel like I am doing ok.
Its a shame when you have an area that has such a rich potential for the hobby, but you have a dealer who is no better than a hotel buyer.
<< <i>However the frustration and the betrayal occurs when the dealer will take the note or coin graded MS 62/64 (and you both agree), and offers to purchase the item but now grades the item as a XF 45? The price is irrelevant, its the gaal to believe that is an exceptable business practice. It really destroys the dealer-customer trust [....]
Its a shame when you have an area that has such a rich potential for the hobby, but you have a dealer who is no better than a hotel buyer. >>
This hobby has had dealers like this for a very long time. This is one of the reasons for the success of the TPGs.
Try finding a better dealer that fits your interests. There are some great ones out there.
<< <i> No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said). >>
No doubt. One one hand, dealers get criticized for having no interest in coins aside from caring about how much money they can make on a deal. And on the other hand, criticized when they refuse to sell some cool stuff they brought to display in their cases at shows to let people see coins they might not otherwise get a chance to see.
<< <i>
<< <i> No offense intended (though someone will undoubtedly get their nose out of joint over something I've said). >>
No doubt. One one hand, dealers get criticized for having no interest in coins aside from caring about how much money they can make on a deal. And on the other hand, criticized when they refuse to sell some cool stuff they brought to display in their cases at shows to let people see coins they might not otherwise get a chance to see.
Interestingly enough the indignation disappears when crowing about their latest cherrypick from said dealer's stock box...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012