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Grade Opinion - 1825 Bust Dime (Update 9/19)

I haven't found many Bust Dimes for my set lately, but I took a chance on this one as it could be a big upgrade from my current example (VG-8).

I have edited the sellers pics for your convenience.

I have my own thoughts on this piece, but I thought it would be cool to share it with y'all now before I can take better pics of it in September when I return back to the U.S. image

***UPDATE 9/19***


My Updated Pics
My thoughts: the coin came out fairly decently. No hairlines, no distracting marks other than the splotchy toning.
I think this piece has a legitimate chance for grading by our hosts, and I may submit it later this year.
As for grade, I think AU-50 would be appropriate IMO.
Your thoughts
image


Sellers Pics
imageimage

Comments

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am going to go with XF details, cleaned.
  • Compare to this AU50 I bought @ Teletrade recently: http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3283&lot=1368

    Did not CAC.
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both coins, to me, appear to have mint state details, or nearly so, and both coins at one time had dark, original surfaces that made it look dirty to someone, probably a long time ago. An incomplete job was done on the reverse of the first. Now stripped of most toning and showing great details and traces of luster, they net out in a market-acceptable way at 50 or so in terms of value, though many purists simply default to "cleaned, pass" as if the coin had no value at all, which is of course, simply ridiculous to the advanced variety collector who is simply looking to upgrade his existing specimen, not necessarily trying to impress the aformentioned surface- perfectionists

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Both very high in terms of details. Both cleaned. While I'm not crazy about either one of them, they really do have a significant amount of detail remaining. Judging from the pics I don't think it (Stone's) would certify, but I could easily change my tune if I had the coin in hand.
  • USMoneyloverUSMoneylover Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    Judging from the available pics only:
    Au details. The lack of luster points toward a cleaning and the reverse spots may or may not be etched into the coin.
    Different pictures could change my mind completely.
    Finest Coins and Relics
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    C'mon guys, a coin nearly 200 years old with this kind of detail. Most certainly it has been cleaned at some time and unfortunately, probably not too long ago.
    Still not a piece of rubbish. AU cleaned.
    Jim

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭✭
    Looks like an AU58 details cleaned JR4, nice coin. I dont know if this is it but Im going to ask anyway because if anyone can find them its Stone. Was this the coin called MS60 in the 1982 Stack's sale?
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275


    << <i>Looks like an AU58 details cleaned JR4, nice coin. I dont know if this is it but Im going to ask anyway because if anyone can find them its Stone. Was this the coin called MS60 in the 1982 Stack's sale? >>


    I don't have that Stacks catalogue [on me], but Realone may because of all the Pedigree research he does with his Busties.

    As for your grade, I think that it is MIGHTY generous, but I shall find out soon what it really looks like in-hand.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    Cleaned, MS details.

    I like it.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭✭
    AU 50 Details. Cleaned / Enviro Damage.
  • 410a410a Posts: 1,325
    AU 58 no damage, the toning can be enviromental and it has a slight rim nick on denticles. I like the coin. I must admit if the toning is darker, I once submitted a Bust Quarter like this and it got body bagged. "corrosion". I don't think this coins reverse looks as dark and I think you will do well. Regards, Mike
  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    AU-Details-Cleaned.
    image
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU55 details (cleaned)...
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>C'mon guys, a coin nearly 200 years old with this kind of detail. Most certainly it has been cleaned at some time and unfortunately, probably not too long ago.
    Still not a piece of rubbish. AU cleaned.
    Jim >>



    Being 200 years old does not let it off the hook for being cleaned with environmental damage. That's why you pay the big bucks for pieces that are nice without those problems, and it's why you maintain the grading standards so that that the nice can coins be properly described for sale.

    The coin has the sharpness of an AU, but the luster is gone from the cleaning, the former heavy tarnish or a combination of both. The net grade would fall in the Vf-35 to EF-40 range. Collector tastes would dictate if you want more detail with problems or a bit less detail without problems. I think this would go into a "genuine" holder.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275


    << <i>

    << <i>C'mon guys, a coin nearly 200 years old with this kind of detail. Most certainly it has been cleaned at some time and unfortunately, probably not too long ago.
    Still not a piece of rubbish. AU cleaned.
    Jim >>



    Being 200 years old does not let it off the hook for being cleaned with environmental damage. That's why you pay the big bucks for pieces that are nice without those problems, and it's why you maintain the grading standards so that that the nice can coins be properly described for sale.

    The coin has the sharpness of an AU, but the luster is gone from the cleaning, the former heavy tarnish or a combination of both. The net grade would fall in the Vf-35 to EF-40 range. Collector tastes would dictate if you want more detail with problems or a bit less detail without problems. I think this would go into a "genuine" holder. >>


    image

    This is my interpretation of the coin in question. I felt the coin was at least strong EF details, but the surfaces are questionable for originality from the sellers (and my tweaked) pics.
    I fully expect there could be hairlines from a cleaning, despite their presence not immediately discernable from the images; although the coin does have many hallmarks which lend
    the expectation that the coin was cleaned or at least wiped to remove the reverse tarnish. I doubt it will slab as well, but I may attempt such if the coin arrives in reasonable shape.

    For now, this will just upgrade my JR-4 in VG-8. I will update this thread later with my new pics. image
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    au details...you bet a big upgrade from a vg example
    dipped/cleaned...probably
    but does it affect your liking?
    truly all that matters here...image
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am going to go with XF details, cleaned. >>



    image
    All glory is fleeting.
  • It looks like a coin that has not been handled properly, and I have seen a significant number of this type that were dipped after being part of various collections, and cleaning, env. damage, or dark and unattractive toning have developed over a large period of time, when dipped the coin is not particularly desirable. My coin has nice luster and impairments are minimal. Tough coin to find in AU and above.
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    Updated pics and my commentary added about this piece image

    Your thoughts, suggestions?
  • Judging from the left over toning that didn't get completely removed, I'm betting it was a nice coin at one point. The sellers pics do look much worse.
    Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.

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