95% of Morgan dollars have been destroyed

morgansforever

according to the coin expert. I stumbled on this, OMG what a joke.
To the best of my knowledge 270 million + or - were melted down under the Pittman Act.
How many were produced total 650 million, just a guess? Were did these hucksters get 95%?
Get your rare 1885O now for only $120 bucks.
Laugh a little on a Sunday night
HSNHUCKSTERS

LindeDad

Has the total mintage ever been adjusted for those made in the Peking and Hong Kong mints?

mkman123

crazy and people actually believe them and overspend for their crap

savoyspecial

that figure may be closer to accurate than you think

crypto79

<< <i>that figure may be closer to accurate than you think >>



I agree that 5% survivorship sounds about right and it still accounts for millions of coins on dealers tables

LanceNewmanOCC

.
i am into extreme statements, but 5% wow

wouldn't that be something!
.

WoodenJefferson

article here

excerpt:

In all, some 657 million Morgan dollars were produced in 96 different date-and-mint combinations. Hundreds of millions were melted over the years—by the government under the Pittman Act and the Silver Act of 1942, and by private refiners since the late 1960s, when rising silver prices made this profitable. Despite all the melting, Americans had more than enough Morgans to fill their daily needs, since the dollars circulated regularly only in the West. As a result, huge stockpiles remained in the Treasury’s vaults, as well as bank vaults nationwide. This explains why so many Morgan dollars are so well preserved today despite their age; few saw actual use.

coindeuce

Of course it's an admission of complicity by the HSN hucksters, but a fairly accurate portrayal in the pure sense that between melting, thumbing, dipping, flash toning, tooling, artificial frosting, whizzing etc., etc. there probably are not much more than 5% of the original mintage surviving in as made condition, other than effects of physical entropy.

lasvegasteddy

estimates in this coin world confuse me at best...more then a couple grains of salt needed i swear
not to hijack
but mintage estimates can be as twisted too
alot of estimated mintage need only thorough research at national archives to be corrected but
someones uninformed guess lay in accepted fact even respected

"greed and those who talk out the side of their neck...will always be"...that's my guess...

i'm still in waiting over that sunken ship that held the booty from " the robbery in 1809?"...being claimed by spain???...how many survival rates of bust coinage will change
someone more informed is welcome to correct/eloborate on the robbery i'm referring too...please do...intense story

rec78

I think that the Pittman act did not specify specifically "Morgan" silver dollars-It just said silver dollars. I believe that other types were melted also-like Bust, seated, trade and also some Spanish, French and other silver coins that the mint had lying around and were useless to the US at that point in history. I do believe that most of the ones melted down were Morgans though-but not all of them.
95% being destroyed is a quite a stretch.
Bob

lasvegasteddy

alot of peace dollars went first is my guess
morgans were "old coins" in 1942 whereas peace dollars were treasured less

morgansforever

I agree that many were melted, whizzed, cleaned, dipped, AT'd, wiped, etc. but there is nothing rare about an 1885O in 63.
The 1883O, 1884O and 1885O dollars were the bulk of the Treasury release in the early 60's. It's been said approximately
10 million pieces of these 3 dates were sold.

lcoopie

One out of twenty left
Perhaps one out of twenty is original?
Sounds right.

RedTiger

<< <i>that figure may be closer to accurate than you think >>



If it were put to a guess, excluding Pittman Act coins:
a) 95% destroyed
b) 50% destroyed
c) 25% destroyed

My guess would be c, 25%. Most of the time silver dollars have traded for above melt value, so would tend to be the last U.S. coins to the melt bucket. There are over three million from the GSA hoard alone and virtually none of those have been touched because they all went to collectors. There were bags and bags released during the 1960s, and again, many went to hoarders or collectors. Because they have traded for a premium most of the time, no one would choose them to melt first.

Weiss

It's easy for us as coin collectors to doubt melt figures.

If the dealers on the board who specialize in buying and selling bullion chime in, particularly those larger dealers who feed smelters directly with their purchases, I think you'll find that day in, day out, for thirty years, Morgan dollars have been melted by the pallet load.

Industrial and commercial (investment, ETF) silver doesn't want bags of 90%, even if it's uncirculated silver dollars. They want London Good Delivery Bars. And that's all they want.

Marks Serial number Assay stamp of refiner Fineness, expressed to either three or four significant figures Year of manufacture (expressed in four digits) Optionally, the weight, which, if included, may be shown in either troy ounces or kilograms

Minimum silver content 750 troy ounces (approximately 23 kilograms) Maximum silver content 1100 troy ounces (approximately 34 kilograms) Minimum fineness 999.0 parts per thousand silver

Recommended dimensions (approximately) Minimum Maximum Length 250mm 350mm Width 110mm 150mm Height 60mm 100mm

http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=27&title=specifications

TwoSides2aCoin

99% of Americans could care less.

Numismatists make up the remaining 1%.

crypto79

657 million Morgan dollars were produced

657,000,000 x .05 = 32,850,000

33 million coins is quite a few coins. To be honest I would be surprised if that many are truely out there but either way HSN's claim isn't too egregious

bronco2078

How did HSN hear about my unfortunate boating accident ?

cladking

I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate.

PerryHall

<< <i>I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate. >>



Agree. Other than the government melts, these mostly sat in bank vaults and didn't really circulate except in the west. Hence, the attrition rate was fairly low compared to other denominations. Also, when you see the sea of silver dollars at the typical large coin show it's hard to believe they are anything but very common.

joeykoins

Interesting thread. If this is true,only 5% of the beloved Morgans left. I know this would be next to impossible to place a number on,but considering the small amount of Morgans that would be in the world, ( this is what urks me the most ) wouldn't these scarce,and i mean scarce!because of the situation,wouldn't the price soar,slabbed or raw? The same for the 40% and 90% Kennedies,that we find in banks or elsewhere?

renomedphys

Only 5% more to go!

crypto79

<< <i>I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate. >>



So you are guessing there are 100+ million morgans left out there? That is a lot of coins

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate. >>



So you are guessing there are 100+ million morgans left out there? That is a lot of coins >>



Makes ya wanna think about startin a gradin company, don't it?

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Only 5% more to go! >>



melting the rest wouldn't surprise me

many people already have pocket pieces of nice 4 figure coins in xf/au that get worn down to low-ball status and ironically become MORE valuable
.

cladking

<< <i>

<< <i>I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate. >>



So you are guessing there are 100+ million morgans left out there? That is a lot of coins >>



Yes. A disproportionate number of them are uncs that have been released since 1963
and circulated coins that survived from that era. You're not going to find many coins like
VF 1904-O's but you'll find lots of AU 1921 and Unc 1879-S's.

The number being melted since 1969 could be easily exaggerated. These coins have
had a premium to protect them and this premium extends all the way down to VG. Coins
that are damaged or become culls are often melted but others are just stashed away.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>I think 15 to 18% survivorship would be much closer to being accurate. >>



So you are guessing there are 100+ million morgans left out there? That is a lot of coins >>



That's less than one silver dollar for every three Americans. Considering all the thousand coin bags that are still intact and all the the rolls and mixed date bags in the hands of silver hoarders, it's quite believable.