What the F ebay!

addicted2ebay

I purchased a 84 Star Jordan that looked graded for $400, here is the link Jordan
Well it turned out to be a raw fake card so I contacted the seller and asked for a refund and they said sure no problem. I then went to the local P.O. and got tracking to return it. The seller got it back and then listed it again but did not issue a refund so I opened a case. Today I got a email telling me that I LOST!! WTF!! I called ebay and they are telling me because I returned it without signature confirmation that they cant confirm that he received it. The tracking shows it was delivered and the seller listed it right after and never sent me a email telling me that he did not get it. So I am going to blow up ebay phones for the next few weeks because I am hot They are basically telling me that any item I buy I can claim to not have received even with DC, only signature confirmation. This is not a good policy and hope that I wm just dealing with a dumb newbie in the resolution center.

thenavarro

That's pretty much been their standard policy for years now. Everything over $250 needs to go back with signature confirmation or the equivalent. The only thing "delivery confirmation" indicates is that someone that happened to have the same zip code received it or that the postal employee scanned it delivered (even if it hasn't been)

Good luck on your followup,

Mike

ClockworkAngel

The one time I had an issues, I covered my bases before I opened the case and I learned what you're learning the hard way. It totally sucks for you, but if you had researched it ahead of time you would have known this is their policy.

In the Meantime, eBay should bet his re listing off eBay and kick him off

BobbyVCP

You are not going to get a thing from eBay. You need to do old school on this seller and show up to his house with a bat.

WalterSobchak

Shouldn't the fact that the seller has listed the card again be proof enough that he got it back? Did you point that out to the EBay rep?

grote15

Ebay requires signature confirmation for the shipping (or return, in this case) of anything over $250. Sorry to hear this..

nam812

<< <i>Shouldn't the fact that the seller has listed the card again be proof enough that he got it back? Did you point that out to the EBay rep? >>



If it were graded and had a third party graded certification number, then he would have a tiny leg to stand on. With it being raw he has no grounds, because the seller could have hundreds of them.

Edited to add: Everyone is sick of the whiny eBay threads, but had the OP started a thread back when he won the fake, everyone here would have told him over and over how to cover his ass in sending it back to the seller.

mrmint23

File a claim with you credit card company.

WalterSobchak

<< <i>You need to do old school on this seller and show up to his house with a bat. >>


Along these lines, you would think that eventually one of these dirtbag sellers would pull this kind of garbage with the wrong guy- resulting in dire physical consequences. You never seem to hear about anything like that happening, though.

addicted2ebay

<< <i>File a claim with you credit card company. >>



Sorry if this is a retread thread. I have had many items turn out to be fake or over graded and sent them back with out a problem. I just sent back a 86 Fleer Jordan that was fake and ebay refunded my money before it was even returned. I paid with paypal of course so you recommend contacting them?

mrmint23

Did you use a credit card or bank draft thru PayPal.....if you used a cc then contact them and explain you returned the item due to it being a fake...also contact PayPal and explain...finally if all else fails file a claim With the better business bureau in San Jose California against PayPal...

Good luck

CW

<< <i>File a claim with you credit card company. >>



Yes, if you paid with a cc through paypal, you will likely be covered against such scams.

This is good advice from mrmint.

Good luck. Be sure to do your research next time.

buymycards

Why would you think it is graded when the description clearly states that is in a 1/2 " plastic case? Did you notice that the seller purchased this card, which was listed as a reprint, on May 10th for $13.00?

Hope you win your case. Hopefully someone will find this seller and put him in the hospital.

thehallmark

Love cards. Love Jordan even more. Can't for the life of me figure why people choose to gamble on those STAR cards when there are just so many fakes out there, in and out of slabs.

addicted2ebay

<< <i>Love cards. Love Jordan even more. Can't for the life of me figure why people choose to gamble on those STAR cards when there are just so many fakes out there, in and out of slabs. >>



You would be surprised, some new sellers list cards cheep because they do not know the value. I should have checked his purchase history like another member stated and I thought maybe he was referring to the slab when he mentioned "1/2 inch case". ebay said that they are going to contact him and tell him to give me a refund after I called and complained but it's a fat chance he will comply.

Edit to add- are 84 Star Jordan's raw on ebay's banned list? If so it should have never been on. The 86 Fleer raw Jordan that was fake ebay refunded me in about 12 hours after I opened a case. It was for $250 and I sent it back with out Signature just DC.

-Thanks for the help, if I get the $400 back I will be sure to pay it forward

Boopotts

This seller must feel like he just fell into a bucket of hundis. Here he's been, sluffing cheeseburgers at Wendy's for the last 10 years, until one of his co-workers casually mentions this 'Ebay thing'. The guy logs on, buys a couple Jordan reprints for $10 a pop or so, and within two weeks has flipped them for $850 in profit. He's probably on the phone with a realtor from St.George Island as we speak, telling him that he'll be prepared to pull the trigger on that 4 bedroom place overlooking the water just as soon as he flips a couple of Goudey Lajoie reprints.

TheTalkingWalnut

For better or worse, like the others have pointed out, ebay rules are ebay rules.

Sign me up for the baseball bat squad, however. I've done a ton of business on CU with zero problems and I suspect many of the other regulars can say the same. I'd like to see us stand together, black and white, Democrat and Republican, Yankees fan and Sawx fan and help "sort out some problem sellers the old fashioned way", Spartacus style.

stangrider

Ebay's rules on this subject are a little f'd up. I recently purchased a card for 3K and the seller didn't send it with the pink sig confirmation slip. I did have to sign b/c it was insured, but I believe Ebay still requires the actual sig confirmation for it to be valid. I messaged the seller and let him know not to ever do it again for this exact reason. Luckily for him I'm honest, but there are many buyers/ sellers out there who look to manipulate the system just like what happened to the OP. Hopefully Ebay can find a better system in the future.

addicted2ebay

I have a few weeks of vacation time, maybe small claims court?

TheCARDKid

Honestly,

-The seller never said it was graded. Why assume its graded, when he didn't even show the top of the holder?

Maybe more important, why buy a card when the seller doesn't even show the grade? That should be a red flag.

-Second, the card has been easily counterfeited. One of the most notorious cards of the mid 80's.

-Only 12 feedback. Thats never good on such a high dollar, high profile card.

The old, "it belonged to my father", I think if that was true, you'd see him selling other Star Jordans, other Star cards, or other cards worth $200-500 or a $1,000. I don't know.

78248

so many red flags on this one, you'd thing you had red ants on your nads

what grade were you expecting to get by the way ?

addicted2ebay

<< <i>Honestly,

-The seller never said it was graded. Why assume its graded, when he didn't even show the top of the holder?

Maybe more important, why buy a card when the seller doesn't even show the grade? That should be a red flag.

-Second, the card has been easily counterfeited. One of the most notorious cards of the mid 80's.

-Only 12 feedback. Thats never good on such a high dollar, high profile card.

The old, "it belonged to my father", I think if that was true, you'd see him selling other Star Jordans, other Star cards, or other cards worth $200-500 or a $1,000. I don't know. >>



I know it has some red flags but if it says "original" and it is not I have always got a refund with no problems. Done it many times and you know what some times it is original and it was a nice deal.

earlycalguy

seems like you have a history of purchasing risky cards for decent dollar amounts. If I was doing that I'd have my ducks in a row on how to return items for a refund......either from a credit card or thru paypal/ebay

you gambled and may have lost this one

78248

<< <i> ... and it was a nice deal. >>




its all right there

jfkheat

<< <i>Why would you think it is graded when the description clearly states that is in a 1/2 " plastic case? Did you notice that the seller purchased this card, which was listed as a reprint, on May 10th for $13.00?

Hope you win your case. Hopefully someone will find this seller and put him in the hospital. >>



The OP bought his card a week before the seller bought the reprint you mentioned. So far the seller has sold 4 of these Jordan cards. 3 were sold as original but he listed the last one as a reprint. It sold for $50.
James

Hank36

I remember when Ebay used to allow sellers to offer buyers shipping insurance for an extra three or four dollars or whatever. I bought insurance on an autographed refractor; it arrived with a nifty crease. I went my local post office, where they told me I needed the insurance reciept...which I didn't have, as the shipper (presumeably) had gotten one when he purchased the insurance when he shipped it. Of course the shipper was unable to provide the recieipt, I was out of luck because I had paid through the mail with a money order, and Ebay was still in the process of figuring out their business model--this was probably about nine years ago.

Seems like the dark ages now. I understand how tough some sellers find Ebay these days, but as a buyer, I appreciate the changes.

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>You are not going to get a thing from eBay. You need to do old school on this seller and show up to his house with a bat. >>




Agree.


I once had a guy try to weasel me on ebay, but I already had his address.

I googled the nearest river and mountains near his house, told him me and my buddy's like to go fishing
at said river, and hunting at said mountains in the summer. Told him the gang would pay him a visit if he didn't do the right thing.

Problem solved.

Dpeck100

Now that is a cool story! Way to go!

MCMLVTopps

Said it b4, gonna say it one more time !!! DELIVERY CONFIRMATION MEANS NADA !!

Use the pink label, which is Signature Required...it means somebody had to sign for the piece.

Sorry you are in a pile of yak squeeze, hope you can figure out a solution.

brian26

<< <i>

<< <i>Ebay requires signature confirmation for the shipping (or return, in this case) of anything over $250. Sorry to hear this.. >>



+1 And always insure what you send for the full value. You are responsible for getting the item to the buyer whether or not they paid for insurance.

I'd still try contacting eBay again seeing how the seller relisted the item, but if they said no already you're chances aren't look good. >>



Just a quick question. Curious what other people do here when they sell a high-priced item that doesn't quite make it to $250. Let's say I sell something for $220. What do I need to do as a seller to be protected? DC w/ insurance for the full amount? No sig conf?

scashaggy

I just looked it up, Signature Conf. costs an additional $2.55.

I would call this a reasonable amount to risk to prevent crooked sellers from saying they didn't receive the return. Scamming buyers as well.

Loose $2 or loose $200? I choose the 1%.

JeffD27177

<< <i>

Just a quick question. Curious what other people do here when they sell a high-priced item that doesn't quite make it to $250. Let's say I sell something for $220. What do I need to do as a seller to be protected? DC w/ insurance for the full amount? No sig conf? >>



PayPal only requires that you use sig confirmation for items valued $250 or more, so I just send with insurance and delivery confirmation. I had a card recently that ended around $246, and while it felt weird (and I triple checked PayPal's policy) I just sent it with dc and insurance.

mtcards

I will agree that ebay's system is really screwed up

BUT

That being said....virtually EVERY thread ever posted on this site is has its roots in the same thing....Scamming seller gets one over on someone trying to get an item for less than what it should go for. I sometimes buy things hoping for that, but also realize that at the end of the day, I will eventually get the "bend over" transaction because of it.

JMDVM

Ebay's rules don't supersede the rule of law. You were ripped off. I would sue both the seller and Ebay in small claims court. If neither show up, you win, although collecting may be another matter. Ebay might just settle just to get rid of the nuisance. I've sued non paying clients in small claims court over the years and even if I won and still didn't get paid, you'd be surprised how often someone would need to get a loan and their loss in small claims court turned upon their record. Sometimes raising hell is satisfaction.
Items insured for over $200 require a signature. My question : Will Ebay still require a separate signature confirmation in addition ? What happens if someone else in the household signs? I've signed for packages for my wife and vice versa.

Mickey71

Is it $250 DC and $250.01 SC ?

bking

<< <i>seems like you have a history of purchasing risky cards for decent dollar amounts. If I was doing that I'd have my ducks in a row on how to return items for a refund......either from a credit card or thru paypal/ebay

you gambled and may have lost this one >>



Well, he IS addicted, right???

sportscardtheory

Listings



Dude has stuff listed again on eBay. If ever there was an eBayer begging for his account to be messed with.

TonyC

<< <i>Listings



Dude has stuff listed again on eBay. If ever there was an eBayer begging for his account to be messed with. >>



Bob Gibson Rookie

"Card in decent shape, at an affordable price. It can be restored to look brand new."

TonyC

While I agree this was an unwise gamble on the part of the OP, the scan of the Star Jordan, though it does not show a flip, DOES show being graded. Note at the bottom the patent number for the BGS holder, which all BGS holders have. Therefore, the card should have arrived graded.

addicted2ebay

I spoke with ebay again and they said the only way to get my money back was to take him to court or get him to admit threw ebay messages that he received the card (I guess DC is not good enough for a $5 fake card). If there are any computer wiz out there can figure out how to get into his account I will split the $400 with you

70ToppsFanatic

Somebody tried to pull something like this on me a few years back but did not realize that Federal law is
a much stronger substitute for Ebay rules.

Contact the seller and let him know that he has committed acts of mail fraud and wire fraud. Inform him that these are
BOTH federal felonies. Advise him that if you do not have your refund in the next 48 hours you will file appropriate complaints
with the USPS Postal inspector and the FBI.

If the seller is smart he won't mess around. Once you are in the USPS and FBI fraud investigation units your life can be turned
inside out. The fool who attempted this crap with me ended up caught by the USPS and they pressed charges against him. He
got a felony conviction on his permanent record and I got my refund.

The small claims court civil lawsuit is also a good option. If you get the judgement in your favor than the seller's credit is hosed
for the foreseeable future.

Mickey71

Yes....explain to this bum about mail fraud. I had something like this happen. He used to be a big dog in the SCD. I told him about mail fraud...explained that I already contacted the post master and the authorities with a police report...refund came soon after.---Sellers name was Rick Donahoo.

CollectorAtWork

I think you're toasted w/ ebay/paypal. You needed to have used Sig Confirmation, and you'd get your refund back easily. You needed to either have filed a claim w/ your credit card or go to court as others have said. The only thing you could have done if you knew it before you opened the case, was send another package back to the seller w/ Sig Confirm that was an empty package. You would then have given ebay the tracking # of the empty package (or put a reprint Star Jordan inside) w/ Sig Confirm. Too late now since ebay already have the other tracking #.

docgoodencollector

from the scan it clearly looks like a bgs slab,unless he used a different pic and is selling fake raw ones.i guess thts why the scan is only the card and not the label as well.good luck!

bbuckner22

Did the scumbag seller send you the card with signature confirmation? If not, I'd call Paypal and say you never received it.

1980scollector

I would follow up on your ebay negative and explain it was a FAKE and not just a different one sent than pictured. Just my two cents.

sportscardtheory

Definitely go the FBI/USPS route. Make this scum squirm. Make sure to take screen shots and save any and all possible info for the police/FBI. The fact that he re-listed the item may not mean anything to eBay, but it sure would in an official investigation.

DCanfield

<< <i>Somebody tried to pull something like this on me a few years back but did not realize that Federal law is
a much stronger substitute for Ebay rules.

Contact the seller and let him know that he has committed acts of mail fraud and wire fraud. Inform him that these are
BOTH federal felonies. Advise him that if you do not have your refund in the next 48 hours you will file appropriate complaints
with the USPS Postal inspector and the FBI.

If the seller is smart he won't mess around. Once you are in the USPS and FBI fraud investigation units your life can be turned
inside out. The fool who attempted this crap with me ended up caught by the USPS and they pressed charges against him. He
got a felony conviction on his permanent record and I got my refund.

The small claims court civil lawsuit is also a good option. If you get the judgement in your favor than the seller's credit is hosed
for the foreseeable future. >>



WAY TO GO!

addicted2ebay

<< <i>

<< <i>Somebody tried to pull something like this on me a few years back but did not realize that Federal law is
a much stronger substitute for Ebay rules.

Contact the seller and let him know that he has committed acts of mail fraud and wire fraud. Inform him that these are
BOTH federal felonies. Advise him that if you do not have your refund in the next 48 hours you will file appropriate complaints
with the USPS Postal inspector and the FBI.

If the seller is smart he won't mess around. Once you are in the USPS and FBI fraud investigation units your life can be turned
inside out. The fool who attempted this crap with me ended up caught by the USPS and they pressed charges against him. He
got a felony conviction on his permanent record and I got my refund.

The small claims court civil lawsuit is also a good option. If you get the judgement in your favor than the seller's credit is hosed
for the foreseeable future. >>



WAY TO GO! >>



I left two voice mails, sent a few emails and messages threw ebay but no response. His email is for a college in Missouri. I also contacted the buyer who left + feedback for $500 one and told them to get them money back. I was going to buy all of his stuff but I am afraid they would suspend my account for not paying and I have a bunch of ebay bucks that I do not want to lose.

Southsider

<< <i>I left two voice mails, sent a few emails and messages threw ebay but no response. His email is for a college in Missouri. I also contacted the buyer who left + feedback for $500 one and told them to get them money back. I was going to buy all of his stuff but I am afraid they would suspend my account for not paying and I have a bunch of ebay bucks that I do not want to lose. >>



If you know the college and the person's name, you may also consider contacting the dean about fraudulent activities of one of the school's students. I'm sure the dean would be interested to hear what you had to say.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>I left two voice mails, sent a few emails and messages threw ebay but no response. His email is for a college in Missouri. I also contacted the buyer who left + feedback for $500 one and told them to get them money back. I was going to buy all of his stuff but I am afraid they would suspend my account for not paying and I have a bunch of ebay bucks that I do not want to lose. >>



If you know the college and the person's name, you may also consider contacting the dean about fraudulent activities of one of the school's students. I'm sure the dean would be interested to hear what you had to say. >>



Especially if her is using a college-issued address for that fraud. Since the Napster days, colleges have gotten a wee bit more diligent about their exposure in these situations.