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1922 Grant half dollar

morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Anyone know why the star above GRANT was used?
Wouldn't an incused star be easy to fake? Are these faked often? All you would need is a punch with a star.
I hit a local coin shop on the way home from work today and looked at a raw one
in the 63 range, with a 2k price tag.
Thanks in advance for any info,
Scott
World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO

Comments

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would think it would be very imprudent to buy that variety of it without it being certified. And being cheap I just got the one without the star.
    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not buy a raw one

    the star was on the first 5000
    the star is supposed to be above the N

    a dentist did fake a bunch in the 30s

    LCoopie = Les
  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    Redbook says that Grants with fake stars usually have a flattened spot on the reverse.
    image
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
    The Grant with Star is one of those coins that I would ONLY consider buying if it was slabbed by a top TPG, period.
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    LCoopie = Les
  • truthtellertruthteller Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
    The Grant w/star is one of the easier coins with diagnostics which are foolproof. The die was clashed early on striking and has clash marks on the obverse next to Grant's chin and collar. The star has a small dimple within it. These are impossible to duplicate.


    TRUTH
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭


    << <i>image >>



    image
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Grant w/star is one of the easier coins with diagnostics which are foolproof. The die was clashed early on striking and has clash marks on the obverse next to Grant's chin and collar. The star has a small dimple within it. These are impossible to duplicate.


    TRUTH >>



    Here's mine.....

    image
    MS63, affectionately named "Scarface."
    LeeG said that the "scar" kept the coin from being near gem.

    Diagnostic images:

    image

    Scott(morgansforever), I paid $1300 for mine about 3 years ago.
    I would never buy this one raw.

    image
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Anyone know why the star above GRANT was used? >>

    From what I recall it was a totally random thing, and unauthorized. Here's what DH says about it on coin facts:

    "The reason for the star was apparently to create a rarer variety and stimulate sales, though the "real reason" for the addition of the basically meaningless star is somewhat cloudy.

    Whatever the reason for its existence, the Grant with star half dollar has long been considered one of the key rarities to the silver commemorative series. It has also been one of the most expensive coins in the series consistently over the past 50 to 60 years. And indeed, the Grant with star is a rare coin in any grade and a very rare coin in Gem condition.

    The typical Grant with star has more satiny than frosty luster."
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • truthtellertruthteller Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
    I don't understand why collectors cannot buy this coin raw. The diagnostics on genuine coins are very easy to identify. I would be more hesitant to buy a slabbed coin with all the fake holders out there.

    There were three varieties on the Grant with star. The non clashed dies, which have the dimple within the star, very small population. The clashed die variety with relapped dies, which makes the coin appear mushy, with the dimple within the star and clash marks. The clashed die variety with the previously mentioned die characteristics, which make up most of the mintage


    TRUTH
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This was a gimmick that the agencies who sold the commemorative coins tried to use to raise more revenue. During the same era (1921-2) there were the Missouri plain and 2*4 half dollars, the Alabama plain and 2X2 half dollars, and the Grant plain and star half dollars. There was also a Grant plain and star commemorative gold dollar with the same design except for the face value of the coin. The two Grant gold dollars are of equal rarity and sell for about the same price.

    At this time Congress passed the laws that authorized the coins. The mint struck them, and then sold them to the issuing group at face value. The group was then authorized to sell the coins for whatever they could get out of them as a fund raiser. A lot of hanky - panky went on during the "old" commemorative coin period (1892 to 1954).

    Here is the Grant with Star gold dollar.

    image
    image

    And Grant with star half dollar

    image
    image

    and another close-up of the distictive star.

    image

    While it is fairly easy for those of us who have been collectors for a long time to spot this ridge in the star, not all of those who are new the hobby are that observant. Trust me. One need only look at the problems some people have with grading to see that it takes a sharp eye to spot things that we take for granted.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks all for the info and detailed diagnostics.
    The star was sorta mushy looking not clean n crisp. Yes, there seemed to be a
    raised area or dimple within the star. So maybe it was legit but why wasn't it slabbed?
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690 ✭


    << <i>Thanks all for the info and detailed diagnostics.
    The star was sorta mushy looking not clean n crisp. Yes, there seemed to be a
    raised area or dimple within the star. So maybe it was legit but why wasn't it slabbed? >>



    I bought this one raw a while ago.

    image

    Why the one wasn't slabbed you mention, who knows. I purchased a bunch of coins at the time from an old time collection that was inherited in the old coin envelopes.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,048 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Anyone know why the star above GRANT was used?
    Wouldn't an incused star be easy to fake? Are these faked often? All you would need is a punch with a star.
    I hit a local coin shop on the way home from work today and looked at a raw one
    in the 63 range, with a 2k price tag.
    Thanks in advance for any info,
    Scott >>



    Two thousand dollars is too much for a raw example of this coin. You can get a PCGS MS-63 graded one for just a little more than that. Aside from the question as to whether or not the piece is genuine, there is also the question of the grade. Once PCGS or NGC has given the coin a grade, it has a firmer market value.

    Incidently the with star coins were struck first. Then the star was plained off the die and the no star pieces were sturck.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The real reason they were created with the star was likely marketing.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Two thousand dollars for a raw Grant with star is a heck of a gamble. I would never consider spending that much money on any raw coin.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,048 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Two thousand dollars for a raw Grant with star is a heck of a gamble. I would never consider spending that much money on any raw coin. >>



    When you are a dealer you have to if you are going to make some good mark-ups. When I was dealer, I won a lot more times than I lost. As collector where you don't have the volume of purchases, this is sound advice. Still if it was coin I really wanted and had not been able to find I'd take a run at it if coin looked okay to me. I've sprent that kind of many many times on raw tokens and medals.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,048 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The real reason they were created with the star was likely marketing. >>



    I read in one source, and I forget where that the Grant with star half dollar was a surprise to the folks who were promoting the sale of these pieces. They had expected the Grant with star gold dollars, but had not expected the half dollars as well.

    Like a number of commemorative coins from this era, there was a scandal with these pieces. The funds raised were to be used to build a Grant memorial building and a highway. Neither was built. What happened to the money?
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i like the idea of having something like that slabbed. no harm done with that in the least bit
  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I may be a coward, but I am not planning on getting a raw $2000 coin unless someone who knows what he is doing is holding my hand.
    LCoopie = Les
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I may be a coward, but I am not planning on getting a raw $2000 coin unless someone who knows what he is doing is holding my hand. >>



    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I may be a coward, but I am not planning on getting a raw $2000 coin unless someone who knows what he is doing is holding my hand. >>



    Smart!
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,456 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Thanks all for the info and detailed diagnostics.
    The star was sorta mushy looking not clean n crisp. Yes, there seemed to be a
    raised area or dimple within the star. So maybe it was legit but why wasn't it slabbed? >>



    I bought this one raw a while ago.

    image

    Why the one wasn't slabbed you mention, who knows. I purchased a bunch of coins at the time from an old time collection that was inherited in the old coin envelopes. >>



    Great looking coin, devious.
    Do you have a larger image?
    That's one very pretty toned Grant.
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Thanks all for the info and detailed diagnostics.
    The star was sorta mushy looking not clean n crisp. Yes, there seemed to be a
    raised area or dimple within the star. So maybe it was legit but why wasn't it slabbed? >>



    I bought this one raw a while ago.

    image

    Why the one wasn't slabbed you mention, who knows. I purchased a bunch of coins at the time from an old time collection that was inherited in the old coin envelopes. >>



    Great looking coin, devious.
    Do you have a larger image?
    That's one very pretty toned Grant. >>



    It is on Coinfacts. I no longer own it and it was obviously reholdered. It was graded AU58. The bottom of the coinfacts images and you can view the larger one, otherwise, I would be more than happy to provide you with the photo since I originally paid for the trueview anyway. image

    Let me know!

    Aaron
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is on Coinfacts. I no longer own it and it was obviously reholdered. It was graded AU58. The bottom of the coinfacts images and you can view the larger one, otherwise, I would be more than happy to provide you with the photo since I originally paid for the trueview anyway. image >>



    Larger image
    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,290 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Grant w/star is one of the easier coins with diagnostics which are foolproof. The die was clashed early on striking and has clash marks on the obverse next to Grant's chin and collar. The star has a small dimple within it. These are impossible to duplicate.


    TRUTH >>



    Thanks for the diagnostics Truth. They are very useful image
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wouldn't an incused star be easy to fake? Are these faked often? All you would need is a punch with a star. >>



    Howland Wood wrote two articles about this in "The Coin Collector's Journal" in April and December 1937.

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