<< <i>WingedLiberty1957 ... Outstanding analysis and excellent work putting together your websites dedicated to colorful Lincoln cents! .......Keep up the great work! ....Wondercoin >>
One last juicy tidbit ... Here are the PCGS slab populations for all Mint State Wheat-backed (top) and Memorial-backed (bottom) Lincolns. The newly slabbed MS67BN is circled in red. So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN. Kind of amazing!
One last juicy tidbit ... So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN. Kind of amazing! >>
First great website, love you efforts, but its alittle misleading to think that it took over 320,000 submissions for this to happen as very few of those that have been submitted were brown coins. In fact the numbers themself show that most coins were submitted looking/hoping for the RD color designation which has been the color of choice untill only recently. The appreciation for Lincolns with colors is a fairly recent thing. However I do agree that should Mitch send these to auction and the prices go high that very well could kickstart a wave of submissions with submitters looking for highend BN designations. I guess I have one concern over all this hype, it may just give the coin doctors a whole new area of coins to destroy
One last juicy tidbit ... So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN. Kind of amazing! >>
First great website, love you efforts, but its alittle misleading to think that it took over 320,000 submissions for this to happen as very few of those that have been submitted were brown coins. In fact the numbers themself show that most coins were submitted looking/hoping for the RD color designation which has been the color of choice untill only recently. The appreciation for Lincolns with colors is a fairly recent thing. However I do agree that should Mitch send these to auction and the prices go high that very well could kickstart a wave of submissions with submitters looking for highend BN designations. I guess I have one concern over all this hype, it may just give the coin doctors a whole new area of coins to destroy >>
Oh Coinbuf, god forbid.
Luckily, copper is not as readily dooped as silver.
You're pretty safe if you avoid standalone pinks and purples (though certain ones seem to be original). Which makes the true rainbow or emerald pieces like needles in a haystack.
coinbuf, you bring up a good point You are right that it took over 52,000 Mint State Brown (BN) Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN. (The 320,000 total was for all Mint State Lincolns submissions) Even at 52,000 to 1 ... It still seems like a needle in a haystack!
wondercoin, yes, get Lauren working on her next big find. An MS67BN Memorial would be sweet.
I am no grading expert, but I know that lack of detail was common in the late 1950's since the dies were becoming well worn and were in dire need of being retooled. It really leaves one nostalgic for the sharp and detailed look of the early years (esp the 1916).
RR: With most plastic (whether Lincoln Wheats or silver Roosie dimes). Our buddy Nick once sold me a pop top Roosie for mega-thousands of dollars that he bought raw on ebay for $5 give or take! I think it resold for thousands more than that the last time it made an auction appearance in the plastic!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
With the color guarantee stripped away now, why should anyone get excited about the vaguest description of color on a copper coin? If you remove the pop/registry game bit, which can now only get larger as more of these are "made", how amazing is this? Did anyone expect a copper coin with at least some nice glossy brown on it?
Eric
Edit to add: If this were your coin and it was being auctioned, would you prefer this to be listed in the catalog as "wildly toned" or "Bn"?
<< <i>Not my area of expertise, so I have to ask what may be a stupid question. Is this coin worth a lot more because it graded BN instead of RB? >>
Unknown, but not impossible because of the grade/color rarity.
I'm usually willing to pay more for a 66BN coin than a 66RB as an example. That's becuaes usually the 66BN designation has meant lots of color, super clean, great luster. Where 66RB means the latter two
<< <i>Not my area of expertise, so I have to ask what may be a stupid question. Is this coin worth a lot more because it graded BN instead of RB? >>
Depends on your point of view, from a registry standpoint it carries fewer points and is therefore less desirable, for those to whom color is everything it could very well bring a substantial premium. I'm not all caught up in the toining hype so I might spend a couple buck more for an example like this but not much, we'll find out the coins real value if and when it comes up for auction. Right now I see the market for colorfull Lincolns as a small niche market, will it grow and how fast is yet to be seen. As you well know coin collector's "tastes" change, 20+ yrs ago everyone wanted blast white so dealers dipped and stripped to meet that demand. Todays market is very much about color so we have doctors doing the shake and bake, who knows what will be the fad 20+yrs from now.
<< <i>Actually, it took PCGS grading more than 24,000,000 coins for this to happen if you really want to spin it!
<< <i>
Yes I have an accounting degree so I could make the numbers dance if I want to also, does'nt change the facts that untill only very recently has anyone submitted Lincolns(the exception being key dates) in the hopes of getting high-end BN designations. I am in no way trying to bag on your coin or the efforts of you and your daughter, but I dont like hype just for the sake of hype. I call a spade a spade, politics are not for me.
I personally would pay a lot more money for a wildly colorful BN copper coin over a less colorful RB, or a mint fresh RD. But that's just me -- I am sure there a lot of collectors that don't like the colorful subclass.
By the way, follow the link below to see all the colorful coin's in my collection.. I am sure some of you guys would consider this a "Skittles" collection!! To me, this stuff is cool and I find these coins much more interesting and exciting than coins with mint-fresh color.
To each their own, right?
My point is there is a subclass of collectors out there that will bid aggressively for colorfully-toned PCGS-graded coins. And when I look for copper, I hunt for BN's primarily, then RB's, and pretty much ignore the RD's. Opposite from most copper coin collectors (I imagine) who probably hunt for RD's first.
Coinbuf: I did not submit these coins looking to slab the first MS67BN Lincoln cent; in fact I had no idea none had ever been graded at PCGS. In fact, when the coins came back from grading (and with no disrespect intended to our hosts), I tossed them back into my bank vault thinking they were just slightly undergraded coins that I would likely resubmit a year or two from now for possible upgrade. It was only after I read this thread that I even discovered what had happened.
Trying coins multiple times that appear undergraded is something I have tought the kids from a very early age. When my -20- year old son was about -5- years old, he picked out of an auction an NGC-PR64 Barber Half Dollar with simply amazing color (he loves color coins and always has from the time he was maybe 4 or 5 years old which is why, in part, he is now a Chemistry major at UCLA) that was obviously undergraded as well (you know what I am talking about ... those earliest NGC graded coins). When he was about -17-, he resubmitted the coin for crossover and PCGS graded it PR66CAM! We both thought it was still an upgrade candidate so we tucked it away for (3) more years. We resubmitted the coin on a separate invoice from these raw cents, as the Barber Half was a slabbed "regrade" not a "raw" submission. The coin came back PCGS-PR67CAM this time ... an additional full point upgrade! Now that (total) 3 point upgrade (plus the designation) was a big deal for Justin ... not financially, as he intends to keep it for as long as he can and not to sell it off, but, as one of his first coins he fell in love with (around age 5) with his great young eyes and it proved to be a super special coin (in fact now pop top in the cameo grade and a pretty big deal being a proof Barber Half Dollar). That said ....
I agree the Lincolns are not a huge deal in the scheme of things. Tonight over on GreatCollections, a 1999 NGC Silver Eagle grading MS70 (with a population of 70 or so coins I believe) sold for more than $24,000.00 with multiple bidders fighting for it!! My MS67BN cent was assigned a $125 price tag in the Price Guide. How big a deal can the MS67BN Lincoln be when a 1999 Silver Eagle is worth nearly 200x on paper!
BUT, I am happy for Lauren who selected this 56-D cent and her continued efforts in the numismatic field. This hobby needs more young kids involved and especially young women. This weekend, Lauren was hired by an outisde company to screen 4,000 fresh coins. She completed the work in about -6- hours at a pace of nearly 700/coins per hour nonstop for 6 hours straight. For anyone out there who has tried to screen coins, you know what happens after about 1,000-2,000 in a day (yet Lauren stated that she sort of had a "Zen" experience screening that 4,000 coin deal and would have been ready to screen another 4,000 the next day if they were available!) I stopped by when she was finished to see the coins she pulled from the 4,000 and they were, overall, simply fabuous. I hope further "history" can be reported on next month when those particular coins come back from grading for that company (assuming they give me permission to discuss the "job").
Sorry for the ramblings. I am just especially proud of Lauren's (and Justin's) achievements in the numismatic field at their young ages.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I wish I could, but, my photography skills are well below average.
If you ever get out here to S. CA (maybe in connection with a Long Beach show), I would be happy to show you a variety of very cool color coins, including a CA Gold Rush specimen... what are chances... right!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Buffnixx: When I originally got the coins back from grading, I personally thought the 67BN might regrade either 67RB or 67+RB and the 56-D that graded 66+RB might regrade 67RB. As I mentioned before, I had no idea the 67BN was unique to the grade/designation at the time. Now, of course, I have no intention of doing anything with the 67BN coin.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Although I don't collect Lincoln's, I'd have to say the colorful BN's can be a very pretty toned coin. And, I've seen some of Jeff's, and they are quite special. He's got a great eye and a super collection being built.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
Of all the things to get excited about, another '50s lincoln with great color is not one of them. Of course, that's me. Please next time you bring this up, make sure it's at least an interesting date. Or an interesting coin. Or both.
Reno, I cannot disagree more with your comment. This thread was about a historical grade not the date.
CopperColor, keep posting threads like these. This is one of my favorite threads of the past week.
Certainly the owner of the coin (wondercoin) had some discovery moments that never would have happened if not for this thread. It's interesting to me that he discovered he made history by stumbling onto this thread (what are the odds of that).
And we all got to find out who the owner was through this thread (now that is very cool).
And then we were all privileged to hear the interesting "backstory" on this coin, and how this coin came to be. The story about the coins history and the screener, Lauren, was a great read. This kind of thing is probably my favorite thing about this hobby (the history -- the background stories and the personal dramas)
Actually, 56-D is a very tough Lincoln Cent to locate in MS67 grade (any color) ... less than (30) MS67RD of this coin in 25+ years of grading at PCGS. Good luck trying to slab a 56-D in any color of MS67!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Eeh, you're right. My comments were definitely not in the spirit of the boards here. The coin is nice although not really interesting to me. Been having a series of rough days here at work thanks to our new electronic medical records software, so it would seem that I was merely venting.
We all forgive you, reno ... (worse transgressions have happened on this board).
I think sometimes people type things in the heat of the moment that they don't really mean.
And probably the relative anonymity of the web leads people to overstep bounds sometimes (certainly much more than they normally would in live person-to-person conversations).
All in all, no big deal ... I just didn't want to discourage CopperColor from starting these kind of threads (which I personally find really interesting).
<< <i>Eeh, you're right. My comments were definitely not in the spirit of the boards here. The coin is nice although not really interesting to me. Been having a series of rough days here at work thanks to our new electronic medical records software, so it would seem that I was merely venting.
I hereby take back what I said.
Flame away. >>
Renomedphys, Sure my cereal was a little soggy after being tinkled on but this response post is just part of why you get huge respect around here.
Well it's real good to see PCGS opening their doors a little more to grading 56-D Lincolns 67 because I know for a fact that their new copper policy makes it more of a liability for them to put 67 or higher on ANY Lincoln nowdays. Surprised this got such high of a grade. Good luck.
Comments
<< <i>Winged Liberty Rocks! These are great sites and I wouldn't be surprised if he's working on more. >>
I'm am sure after catching his breath, he will have more in the works.
His new site is just getting started, so the breath catching is still a ways off.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>WingedLiberty1957 ... Outstanding analysis and excellent work putting together your websites dedicated to colorful Lincoln cents!
.......Keep up the great work! ....Wondercoin >>
+1
One last juicy tidbit ...
Here are the PCGS slab populations for all Mint State Wheat-backed (top) and Memorial-backed (bottom) Lincolns.
The newly slabbed MS67BN is circled in red.
So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN.
Kind of amazing!
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Wondercoin
<< <i>Thanks for those kind words.
One last juicy tidbit ...
So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN.
Kind of amazing! >>
First great website, love you efforts, but its alittle misleading to think that it took over 320,000 submissions for this to happen as very few of those that have been submitted were brown coins. In fact the numbers themself show that most coins were submitted looking/hoping for the RD color designation which has been the color of choice untill only recently. The appreciation for Lincolns with colors is a fairly recent thing. However I do agree that should Mitch send these to auction and the prices go high that very well could kickstart a wave of submissions with submitters looking for highend BN designations. I guess I have one concern over all this hype, it may just give the coin doctors a whole new area of coins to destroy
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks for those kind words.
One last juicy tidbit ...
So it took over 320,000 Mint State Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN.
Kind of amazing! >>
First great website, love you efforts, but its alittle misleading to think that it took over 320,000 submissions for this to happen as very few of those that have been submitted were brown coins. In fact the numbers themself show that most coins were submitted looking/hoping for the RD color designation which has been the color of choice untill only recently. The appreciation for Lincolns with colors is a fairly recent thing. However I do agree that should Mitch send these to auction and the prices go high that very well could kickstart a wave of submissions with submitters looking for highend BN designations. I guess I have one concern over all this hype, it may just give the coin doctors a whole new area of coins to destroy
Oh Coinbuf, god forbid.
Luckily, copper is not as readily dooped as silver.
You're pretty safe if you avoid standalone pinks and purples (though certain ones seem to be original). Which makes the true rainbow or emerald pieces like needles in a haystack.
You are right that it took over 52,000 Mint State Brown (BN) Lincoln Cent submissions to find the first MS67BN.
(The 320,000 total was for all Mint State Lincolns submissions)
Even at 52,000 to 1 ... It still seems like a needle in a haystack!
wondercoin, yes, get Lauren working on her next big find.
An MS67BN Memorial would be sweet.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
I am no grading expert, but I know that lack of detail was common in the late 1950's since the dies were becoming well worn and were in dire need of being retooled.
It really leaves one nostalgic for the sharp and detailed look of the early years (esp the 1916).
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Wondercoin
Actually, it took PCGS grading more than 24,000,000 coins for this to happen if you really want to spin it!
Wondercoin
<< <i>"but its alittle misleading to think that it took over 320,000 submissions for this to happen"
Actually, it took PCGS grading more than 24,000,000 coins for this to happen if you really want to spin it!
Wondercoin >>
AND how many RE-SUBMISSIONS?
With the color guarantee stripped away now, why should anyone get excited about the vaguest description of color on a copper coin? If you remove the pop/registry game bit, which can now only get larger as more of these are "made", how amazing is this? Did anyone expect a copper coin with at least some nice glossy brown on it?
Eric
Edit to add: If this were your coin and it was being auctioned, would you prefer this to be listed in the catalog as "wildly toned" or "Bn"?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>To be honest, this does not excite me one bit, sorry. Nice cent...but the color designation does absolutely nothing for me. Niche collecting. >>
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Not my area of expertise, so I have to ask what may be a stupid question. Is this coin worth a lot more because it graded BN instead of RB? >>
Unknown, but not impossible because of the grade/color rarity.
I'm usually willing to pay more for a 66BN coin than a 66RB as an example. That's becuaes usually the 66BN designation has meant lots of color, super clean, great luster. Where 66RB means the latter two
CC
<< <i>Not my area of expertise, so I have to ask what may be a stupid question. Is this coin worth a lot more because it graded BN instead of RB? >>
Depends on your point of view, from a registry standpoint it carries fewer points and is therefore less desirable, for those to whom color is everything it could very well bring a substantial premium. I'm not all caught up in the toining hype so I might spend a couple buck more for an example like this but not much, we'll find out the coins real value if and when it comes up for auction. Right now I see the market for colorfull Lincolns as a small niche market, will it grow and how fast is yet to be seen. As you well know coin collector's "tastes" change, 20+ yrs ago everyone wanted blast white so dealers dipped and stripped to meet that demand. Todays market is very much about color so we have doctors doing the shake and bake, who knows what will be the fad 20+yrs from now.
<< <i>Actually, it took PCGS grading more than 24,000,000 coins for this to happen if you really want to spin it!
<< <i>
Yes I have an accounting degree so I could make the numbers dance if I want to also, does'nt change the facts that untill only very recently has anyone submitted Lincolns(the exception being key dates) in the hopes of getting high-end BN designations. I am in no way trying to bag on your coin or the efforts of you and your daughter, but I dont like hype just for the sake of hype. I call a spade a spade, politics are not for me.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
But that's just me -- I am sure there a lot of collectors that don't like the colorful subclass.
By the way, follow the link below to see all the colorful coin's in my collection..
I am sure some of you guys would consider this a "Skittles" collection!!
To me, this stuff is cool and I find these coins much more interesting and exciting than coins with mint-fresh color.
To each their own, right?
My point is there is a subclass of collectors out there that will bid aggressively for colorfully-toned PCGS-graded coins.
And when I look for copper, I hunt for BN's primarily, then RB's, and pretty much ignore the RD's.
Opposite from most copper coin collectors (I imagine) who probably hunt for RD's first.
WingedLiberty's "Color of Money" Registry Showcase
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Trying coins multiple times that appear undergraded is something I have tought the kids from a very early age. When my -20- year old son was about -5- years old, he picked out of an auction an NGC-PR64 Barber Half Dollar with simply amazing color (he loves color coins and always has from the time he was maybe 4 or 5 years old which is why, in part, he is now a Chemistry major at UCLA) that was obviously undergraded as well (you know what I am talking about ... those earliest NGC graded coins). When he was about -17-, he resubmitted the coin for crossover and PCGS graded it PR66CAM! We both thought it was still an upgrade candidate so we tucked it away for (3) more years. We resubmitted the coin on a separate invoice from these raw cents, as the Barber Half was a slabbed "regrade" not a "raw" submission. The coin came back PCGS-PR67CAM this time ... an additional full point upgrade! Now that (total) 3 point upgrade (plus the designation) was a big deal for Justin ... not financially, as he intends to keep it for as long as he can and not to sell it off, but, as one of his first coins he fell in love with (around age 5) with his great young eyes and it proved to be a super special coin (in fact now pop top in the cameo grade and a pretty big deal being a proof Barber Half Dollar). That said ....
I agree the Lincolns are not a huge deal in the scheme of things. Tonight over on GreatCollections, a 1999 NGC Silver Eagle grading MS70 (with a population of 70 or so coins I believe) sold for more than $24,000.00 with multiple bidders fighting for it!! My MS67BN cent was assigned a $125 price tag in the Price Guide. How big a deal can the MS67BN Lincoln be when a 1999 Silver Eagle is worth nearly 200x on paper!
BUT, I am happy for Lauren who selected this 56-D cent and her continued efforts in the numismatic field. This hobby needs more young kids involved and especially young women. This weekend, Lauren was hired by an outisde company to screen 4,000 fresh coins. She completed the work in about -6- hours at a pace of nearly 700/coins per hour nonstop for 6 hours straight. For anyone out there who has tried to screen coins, you know what happens after about 1,000-2,000 in a day (yet Lauren stated that she sort of had a "Zen" experience screening that 4,000 coin deal and would have been ready to screen another 4,000 the next day if they were available!) I stopped by when she was finished to see the coins she pulled from the 4,000 and they were, overall, simply fabuous. I hope further "history" can be reported on next month when those particular coins come back from grading for that company (assuming they give me permission to discuss the "job").
Sorry for the ramblings. I am just especially proud of Lauren's (and Justin's) achievements in the numismatic field at their young ages.
Wondercoin
Can you post a picture of that PR67 CAM Barber Half, it sounds fantastic!
Very cool story
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
If you ever get out here to S. CA (maybe in connection with a Long Beach show), I would be happy to show you a variety of very cool color coins, including a CA Gold Rush specimen... what are chances... right!
Wondercoin
Perhaps Justin might submit that for a TrueView photograph one day?
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>So what's the next step here, try to get it into a MS68 brown holder? And the insanity marches on and on.......... >>
How about the next step is he simply enjoys the coin and you keep your pessimistic, lack luster attitude to yourself?
peacockcoins
Wondercoin
Here's another 67 brown lincoln
67
<< <i>Sorry, but I don't think yours is the first.
Here's another 67 brown lincoln
67 >>
Daz jest'bout as nass
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
CopperColor, keep posting threads like these. This is one of my favorite threads of the past week.
Certainly the owner of the coin (wondercoin) had some discovery moments that never would have happened if not for this thread.
It's interesting to me that he discovered he made history by stumbling onto this thread (what are the odds of that).
And we all got to find out who the owner was through this thread (now that is very cool).
And then we were all privileged to hear the interesting "backstory" on this coin, and how this coin came to be.
The story about the coins history and the screener, Lauren, was a great read.
This kind of thing is probably my favorite thing about this hobby (the history -- the background stories and the personal dramas)
So I am very happy this got posted.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
+1
Actually, 56-D is a very tough Lincoln Cent to locate in MS67 grade (any color) ... less than (30) MS67RD of this coin in 25+ years of grading at PCGS. Good luck trying to slab a 56-D in any color of MS67!
Wondercoin
I hereby take back what I said.
Flame away.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
I think sometimes people type things in the heat of the moment that they don't really mean.
And probably the relative anonymity of the web leads people to overstep bounds sometimes
(certainly much more than they normally would in live person-to-person conversations).
All in all, no big deal ... I just didn't want to discourage CopperColor from starting these kind of threads (which I personally find really interesting).
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Wondercoin
<< <i>Eeh, you're right. My comments were definitely not in the spirit of the boards here. The coin is nice although not really interesting to me. Been having a series of rough days here at work thanks to our new electronic medical records software, so it would seem that I was merely venting.
I hereby take back what I said.
Flame away. >>
Renomedphys,
Sure my cereal was a little soggy after being tinkled on but this response post is just part of why you get huge respect around here.
-Doug