Why are high grade 1844 dime prices so soft?
seateddime
Posts: 6,169 ✭✭✭
I know the hoard of these was broken up and the low grade coins are first being absorbed by the market, and really below XF are common coins but XF and above become rather scarce with just 33 coins graded (not backing out resubmitted coins)
This is a date that most coins are in holders in any kind of grade of fine or better. The Reiver NGC 15 hammered for over $900 when it was sold.
This is a date in AU or better is really very tough, in fact there are less than 20 total in the PCGS pop report and there are a lot of resubmissions. I personally am guilty there.
I picked up the AU from the Cook collection for about $2000. What a steal!. I personally don't mind because I am buying all the Xf45 or better coins I see going off cheap just for investment but I wonder why this former darling of coin collecting has dragged the prices of the rare high grades down with the more common low grades?
If you think they are common try and find an Au or better for sale. In UNC good luck finding one!
This is a date that most coins are in holders in any kind of grade of fine or better. The Reiver NGC 15 hammered for over $900 when it was sold.
This is a date in AU or better is really very tough, in fact there are less than 20 total in the PCGS pop report and there are a lot of resubmissions. I personally am guilty there.
I picked up the AU from the Cook collection for about $2000. What a steal!. I personally don't mind because I am buying all the Xf45 or better coins I see going off cheap just for investment but I wonder why this former darling of coin collecting has dragged the prices of the rare high grades down with the more common low grades?
If you think they are common try and find an Au or better for sale. In UNC good luck finding one!
I seldom check PM's but do check emails often jason@seated.org
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
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and consider anything less than MS65 to be all the same and NON COLLECTABLE
and opt for any date that comes up looking cool and dont really care what date it is ?
Really, if you want to make $$$ than make a market in the lowly 1953 with arrows - those never stop selling.
1. Many pre-1853 silver coins are scarcer than you might think because of the mass melting of silver pieces after the California gold rush. The influx of gold from that event caused the relative prices between gold and silver to change so that it became profitable to melt every U.S. silver coin that had been melted prior to the 1853 legislation. A lot of U.S. silver coins were melted because of that.
2. There were very few coin collectors in the U.S. prior to 1857. That year the passing of the large cent pulled Americans into the hobby. That means that many of your 1844 dimes had 13 years of circulation before many people had an inclination to save them. Also the ones in circulation probably grading Fine or VF and were not attractive to collectors.
3. Perhaps the mint did not gap the dies properly when they were set in the coin press.
4. James Longacre had just because the chief designer and die maker during this period. Longacre got his job via political influence and was more of printing plate cutter than a die maker. Perhaps his work was not up to standard.
Just some ideas to kick around …
<< <i>I'm no expert in this series, but here are few things to ponder.
1. Many pre-1853 silver coins are scarcer than you might think because of the mass melting of silver pieces after the California gold rush. The influx of gold from that event caused the relative prices between gold and silver to change so that it became profitable to melt every U.S. silver coin that had been melted prior to the 1853 legislation. A lot of U.S. silver coins were melted because of that.
2. There were very few coin collectors in the U.S. prior to 1857. That year the passing of the large cent pulled Americans into the hobby. That means that many of your 1844 dimes had 13 years of circulation before many people had an inclination to save them. Also the ones in circulation probably grading Fine or VF and were not attractive to collectors.
3. Perhaps the mint did not gap the dies properly when they were set in the coin press.
4. James Longacre had just because the chief designer and die maker during this period. Longacre got his job via political influence and was more of printing plate cutter than a die maker. Perhaps his work was not up to standard.
Just some ideas to kick around … >>
Much of this is very true.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
The 1846 is WAY tuffer. An AU for that date would be very nice to have. And would cost some serious $$$$$$!!!
<< <i>I don't call 2K for an AU soft. It is a better date, but not really tuff in my experience.
The 1846 is WAY tuffer. An AU for that date would be very nice to have. And would cost some serious $$$$$$!!! >>
A real AU 46 is north of 10k and much rarer but even going back to Greer an AU 44 is rarer than the 40WD but prices are much less.
It is my experience that while they can be found in up to XF, AU is a hard R5 and UNC is an R7 coin.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Why are high grade 1844 dime prices so soft? >>
At the risk of sounding like 'Dr. Obvious', I would guess that supply meets or even exceeds current collector demand.
Either the lower grade examples are sufficient for the average seated dime collector, and/or there are not that many folks currently assembling high grade seated dime sets to support higher prices.
Myself, I keep waiting for the day when someone posts 'why are chain cent prices so soft?', or 'how come my VF Classic Head cents aren't even bringing Bid money on Ebay?'........
Any knowledgeable, and even the less knowledgeable, Seated Dime collector knew of the hoard and how overpriced the '44 was, so it kept demand down.
The '44 was the lowest grade coin in my complete Seated Dime collection. I was unwilling to overpay for one better.
They have a floor becuase I will buy all the AU's I see around $2000, even if know one wants to buy them from me.
Then again I was paying $5000 for any AU 1843 O I could find. 2 years later they sold for $10-15k. Now I am trying hard to buy XF45's as anything better is locked up and not for sale.
I would pay moon money for an 1851 o UNC, who care what the guides say.
When you spend a lot of time on something you know what is really rare and what is really expensive. For a long time g-f+ 1844 dimes were very overpriced. AU's were never around and the hoard had next to none. When I finally found an UNC I wrote a 5 figure check in less than 2 minutes of looking the coin over.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
ones are still too high imo. I'd rather spend that money on more worthy dates like the New Olrean mints and the scarcer Philly mints (40 wd, 47, 48).
The low mintage on the 1844 dime always made it a promoted coin, even in the 1970's. Back then I found way too many AG-F specimens available that I
crossed it off my list fairly early as being overpriced vs. its rarity/availability. Of course in that decision I failed to look out how many XF-unc coins were in the mix.
Whoever was hoarding these for several decades must have not gotten very far by the mid-1970's as there were still a lot of these out there. It made much more
sense to go after dozens of other dates in the series that were far more underrated in price vs. availability. In 1974 the Coin World price for Fine and XF 1844 was $60/$200.
The 1874-cc was $200/$700. The 1843-0 $100/$400. How about an 1851-0 at $12/$40 (unc $225) or 1840 wd at $10/$25?
There were great values back then...but not in well circulated 1844's. Some of the rare quarters were even more stupidly priced: 1842-0 sd $22.50/$50,
1851-0 and 1852-0 $20/$65, 1860-s $35/$125, and 1872-s $30/$75. The quarters typically offered the best bang for the buck in that era. When pieces showed
up they often were priced close to Coin World Trends. And there were a lot more of them with whacky low prices than probably the other denominations combined.
<< <i>
This is a date that most coins are in holders in any kind of grade of fine or better. The Reiver NGC 15 hammered for over $900 when it was sold.
>>
The buyer is buried on that coin, and suspects he was "Stacks'ed" even though it was a Heritage auction
<< <i>
What would you sell an 1851-o 10c ms62 ngc for assuming you had one for sale?
Such a really rare coin that is, next to the 43 O and maybe the 45 O it is the rarest and so undervalued.
While I do feel that AU/UNC 1844 dimes are tough, not as tough as the 46 but much more so than the 41.42,45, 47 (which is tough in unc) and most any other philly mint I think even still a g-vf is not a hard coin to find at all.
51 O dimes are under-rated, even circulated they are uncommon. The F-15 in the Heritage sale is already over PCGS with lots of time left and that is an ANACS coin (but a problem free original one)
The 1850-52 half dollars are expensive but they are readily available. I would trade a 1852 AU58 for a AU58 1844 Dime all day long ( I would make the trade)
The 1851 O and 1852 O quarters are tough too and most of them are problem coins.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy those scarce seated coins at 74 prices now!
<< <i>Very interesting facts on seated coins. I feel the 52-O dimes are pretty hard to find also.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy those scarce seated coins at 74 prices now!
I only wish in the 80's I was collecting Seated coins and not Walkers and Mercs. The one seated coin I did buy was an 1858 ANACS PF60 quarter for $300. In those days the mintage was assumed to be 80 so I figured you could not go wrong!
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
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They all seem equally impossible in EF, for that matter I cant find any 53-Os in EF either.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Very interesting facts on seated coins. I feel the 52-O dimes are pretty hard to find also.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy those scarce seated coins at 74 prices now!
I only wish in the 80's I was collecting Seated coins and not Walkers and Mercs. The one seated coin I did buy was an 1858 ANACS PF60 quarter for $300. In those days the mintage was assumed to be 80 so I figured you could not go wrong! >>
So SD do you have an 1851-o for sale , right about now, as you say you would be willing to pay moon money for in unc? >>
I have a 52 O for sale, I have a duplicate unc 51-O but am holding on to it.
The 53 O is also very uncommon but UNCs are out there.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Toss up or on par among the 40-0, 42-0, 49-0, 50-0 and 52-0. And of course the 43-0, 45-0, 51-0, 60-0 are the leaders. If I could have any gem coin in those first 2 tiers
I think it would be the 53-0. I've only seen one true gem and that was the James Stack coin in early 1990. It graded NGC 66 on the first try and then was cracked out and
ended up in a PCGS 65 holder. I'd have bought the coin at the auction as it was my number one target in that sale. But I felt it was slightly messed with as the reverse luster
looked slightly burnt or off texture. I thought it might have been cleaned and therefore only a 64 overall. The obverse was a stone 65. Dealer Jay Miller ended up buying the coin
for $12,100. He later told me there was absolutely nothing wrong with the coin and that I should have bought it. He flipped the coin to dealer Bruce Amspacher for $23.5K
as at the time a 66 holder fetched around 2X 65 money. If I recall correctly Bruce wanted it in a PCGS holder and cracked it out. He got his wish but 1 grade lower.
I concentrated on looking for high grade 53-0's ever since the mid-1970's as to me it was the most overlooked O mint in high grade...and it was priced just a hair above common.
The 58-0 dime was also very underrated at that time. Note that the mintage of the 53-0 is several times that of the 58-0. To most people that wouldn't make sense. I bought
several high grade 58-0's over a 10 yr period but only ran into a single high grade circ 53-0. I've owned a gem examples of 58-0, 56-0, 50-0, 39-0, and 38-0....but no 53-0.
It's always been my favorite all around date in the seated dimes (affordable for many years, but very underrated).