Rare $3 gold coin worth $4 MILLION goes on auction...
mrearlygold
Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
0
mrearlygold
Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
Comments
great read too thanx for posting...cookies for you...
4 seasons auctions?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>4 seasons auctions? >>
Isn't that where you would go with a coin like this?
Mintmark location seems to be slightly different than on the known 1870-S $3 gold piece.
If I owned the coin, you bet I would have it certified by PCGS! Just my opinion, though.
Edit to add a prediction: this thread will make 100 by the end of the day.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>4 seasons auctions? >>
Isn't that where you would go with a coin like this? >>
Oh yah and get that consignment over to them asap too!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Love the quotes:
"It was made from a special cast that had a unique 'S' hand-carved into it. The 'S' is what makes the coin so rare."
"When the coin in the cornerstone was damaged and removed, a second copy was cast."
Somehow the story seems a little fishy. Uncertified, and auctioned in a non-numismatic venue, and it hasn't hit the major news publications yet. The owner of the auction house "invites" people to bring their own experts. If real, this is a huge story ... so why so little press?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The auction listing at the Four Seasons Auction Gallery, Alpharetta, Georgia
The coin:
The San Francisco Souvenir Book, and the page where the coin was supposedly found in 1997:
"Please note that if you pay late and thus receive your item(s) late, this does not qualify you for special privileges. We do not give refunds! All sales are final! All property is sold AS IS, WHERE IS and neither Four Seasons Auction of Forsyth nor the consignor makes any warranties or representations of any kind or nature with respect to property or its value, and in no event shall be responsible for the correctness of description, genuineness, attribution, provenance, authenticity, authorship, completeness, condition of property or estimate of value." (emphasis added)
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
The other side of the coin is more interesting than the obverse. Has Dave Bowers weighed in on this?
You must have something like this authenticated so you don't sell it "as is" with "no returns" under wording such as " what may be" and "possibly".
The Eliasberg/Bass 1870-S has a hand made mint mark, but the dies should match regardless.
Here's a 1870 $3:
It looks to me like the 18 are weak on the P-mint and the coin in question. Also, the inner leaf at 4:00 looks very thin on the P-Mint and the coin in question.
Eliasberg/Bass coin. The two have different date positions, when measured using the
letters in DOLLAR. The 'S' mintmarks also appear to be a different size and position.
FAKE!!!
<< <i>I just compared the images of the coin being offered at auction to the images of the
Eliasberg/Bass coin. The two have different date positions, when measured using the
letters in DOLLAR. The 'S' mintmarks also appear to be a different size and position.
FAKE!!! >>
I agree there are several differences between the coin in question and the single known Eliasberg/Bass coin including the MM itself, but pics can be deceiving and you really can't rely on them to make any definite determination IMO.
<< <i>I just compared the images of the coin being offered at auction to the images of the
Eliasberg/Bass coin. The two have different date positions, when measured using the
letters in DOLLAR. The 'S' mintmarks also appear to be a different size and position.
FAKE!!! >>
Compare the position of the '70' relative to the ribbon on the two coins. Very different.
I am not looking at the mintmark, just the date position.
Yet throughout the article I think I kinda felt myself slipping away into the chronicles of narnia
<< <i>If real, this is a huge story ... so why so little press? >>
This forum IS the press, nowadays.
I find it comical that the auction house is emphatic about only affording a preview from 9:30 a.m. the day of the sale until the floor session starts. Any auction house with credibility would pre-qualify bidders for something like this, which would likely require thorough pre-sale examination by applicants. P.T Barnum couldn't have promoted this sale in better fashion.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
If so isn't it a situation with two solutions: (1) impossible to authenticate, (2) possible to un-authenticate (if that is a word). It would take some guts to spend that much cash for something that likely can't be authenticated.
Either worth melt or millions, that's quite a spread.
Surprised it took 15 years to come up with the "story."
<< <i>
Surprised it took 15 years to come up with the "story." >>
Probably had a better chance 15 years ago without so many eyes looking at high res online images.
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>It is as phony as a, er, $3 bill. >>
It's still most likely solid gold though and since most of the old books I buy just have empty sticky pages I'd be more then happy with such a discovery!
<< <i>I've been in contact with the auction house, and they are working on getting it authenticated by a third party.
- Ian >>
But they don't trust the grading services, because they're biased toward big dealers, so they're having their receptionists' brother-in-law, who recently conducted a successful sale of his great aunt's $3 in a necklace to a CA$H FOR GOOLLLDDD!!!111 store take a good, hard look at it, right?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>I've been in contact with the auction house, and they are working on getting it authenticated by a third party.
- Ian >>
Hopefully, a legit third party. Fascinating story.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I've been in contact with the auction house, and they are working on getting it authenticated by a third party.
- Ian >>
Good suggestion, and a good idea, Ian!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Run Forrest Run !!!
<< <i>I just compared the images of the coin being offered at auction to the images of the
Eliasberg/Bass coin. The two have different date positions, when measured using the
letters in DOLLAR. The 'S' mintmarks also appear to be a different size and position.
FAKE!!! >>
Yep, the date looked like it's positioned like the Philly coin. You can't something like this at auction raw these days.
Found in an old book, found wrapped up in old newspapers, found in an envelope postmarked 100 years ago... anything like that just makes me think "not authentic".
If it turns out to be genuine, it will be a great story. If we never hear another word about this piece, or if it is auctioned raw and unauthenticated, well...
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>I've been in contact with the auction house, and they are working on getting it authenticated by a third party.
- Ian >>
Yea, it will probably be "Elmer's White Lighting Grading Service," if they ceritify it was genuine.
At any rate the real thing might be worth more than $7 million. Why? Although the condition is not there (The real one has been mounted, polished and has letters scratched into the top of the reverse.) the rarity (unique) and an interesting background story is.
Lance.
<< <i>Interesting paragraph in the auction company's terms ...
"Please note that if you pay late and thus receive your item(s) late, this does not qualify you for special privileges. We do not give refunds! All sales are final! All property is sold AS IS, WHERE IS and neither Four Seasons Auction of Forsyth nor the consignor makes any warranties or representations of any kind or nature with respect to property or its value, and in no event shall be responsible for the correctness of description, genuineness, attribution, provenance, authenticity, authorship, completeness, condition of property or estimate of value." (emphasis added)
And if paid for promptly and returned and the buyer finds out he/she is stuck with a curiosity at best, there will usually be a 20% "restocking" fee so they can try to fish for more suckers.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Wow - is this genuine? I can't believe they are auctioning this coin uncertified.
- Ian >>
thats what surprises me as well. something just isint right about it. jmo ( dare i say phoney as a $3 bill )
If there is a mention of this on a national radio show, then it is purely a deception to get positive publicity for their other auctions. It won't meet the reserve and will go away and it will be forgotten. But they will have made some headlines in the process.
Should a local newspaper or TV outlet be notified that it is a fake being offered for millions?
Should they get bad publicity for this?
If experts declare it fake, I would assume it does not get auctioned.
If it gets auctioned without expert authentication, no serious collector will touch it.
If it gets auctioned after being declared genuine, it's a multi-million dollar jackpot for the lucky owner.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>The auction listing at the Four Seasons Auction Gallery, Alpharetta, Georgia
The coin:
The San Francisco Souvenir Book, and the page where the coin was supposedly found in 1997:
Quite interesting
Ive seen that book several times at local book shops, not once was there a coin glued inside.
In addition this book was printed after 1870
A good back story for a decent fake.
<< <i>Before the auction, one of two things will happen. Either some respected experts and or a major TPG will be given the opportunity to examine the coin and pronounce a verdict, or the rare coin community will all be aware that it wasn't done and everyone will know something is fishy. In any event I don't believe the auction will go off with any serious collector unaware of which of those two things happened.
If experts declare it fake, I would assume it does not get auctioned.
If it gets auctioned without expert authentication, no serious collector will touch it.
If it gets auctioned after being declared genuine, it's a multi-million dollar jackpot for the lucky owner. >>
It wouldn't hurt to have a numismatic expert make a definitive judgment on the coin; if fake, the relevant authorities need to be alerted. I'm sure the state AG would like to do all they can to fight the fraud.