Layaways are kind of a sore subject with me- we don't do them anymore as we had a couple of customers who tended to abuse the privilege.
One guy in particular stood out- he'd put something back with the clear understanding-in writing- that it would be paid in full by xx/xx/xx date. Meanwhile he's going to other guys and paying them in cash, buying stuff online/mail order, peeling out cash at shows...and we wouldn't care about that in the slightest... except when it came time to pay us- you guessed it- there would always be an excuse as to why he needed more time, etc. on items that frankly weren't that expensive as a rule. We gave the guy every break possible, but the final straw was when he wanted to totally unravel and bail on a deal after over 6 months. $500 deal, he put down $50 and agreed that the balance would be paid 90 days hence. We gave him 90 days, and another 90 beyond that-interspersed with a few phone calls that were never returned-and he finally shows up wanting his $50 back because he "already picked one up a couple weeks ago". We said no, explained why, he got bent and left.
I had another guy who wanted a 1955 proof set- he stopped by the store on his way home from work, said he didn't have any cash on him, didn't want to put it on the card, and asked if I could hold it for a week until he got paid. I said OK, a week hence is (date). See you then. That week went by, another week went by, I went on vacation for a week and upon my return found that he still hadn't picked it up... gave it a few days more(!), and a day after I finally put it back in stock, he finally shows up, and sees it in the case. He says "Is that a new 55 set?" I said "No, that's the one you were looking at." He replied (sounding genuinely miffed), "I TOLD you to hold that for me-so what's it doing in the case?". I replied, "You said you'd be back for it in a week; it's been a month- so we finally put it back in stock yesterday... but the good news is that it is still here if you want it." He just glared at me and stomped out.
Gee, how will dealers stay in business if we don't kiss up to great regular customers like those....
I have bought quite a few coins on layaway from a fairly big online and catalog dealer without a problem.For me its a good way to get higher end moderns ie plat eagles or certified gold coins without having to come up with $2k at one time.I take my contract seriously so there isnt any nonsense if the pm price moves up or down.If MCM offered layaway I would certainly use their company but it doesnt sound like John thinks its a good idea,so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
I wanted to post earlier but had to refrain after all the snotty replies that if you need layaway then you shouldn't be buying coins. I guess the hypocrites that wrote that have always paid in full. To each he is own I guess.
I appreciate the post and I wouldn't hold it against you for not doing layaway. After looking at some of the other dealers replies it seems like a hassle.
I like the layaway option, it gives a small time collector like me a chance to branch out into some nicer coins. I consider myself pretty fininacially responsible, not to much debt, good credit score, etc... and I could do some juggling, sell some other stuff, cancel a vacation, etc... to purchase a 3K coin but why do that if I could instead put 20% down and pay the rest off in payments.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I did the lay away thing a few times in the 1970s. A dealer let me do it, and had she (yes she) not let me do it would not own this coin, and a couple of others today.
As a dealer I had a couple of lay away transactions and never had any problems.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>I did the lay away thing a few times in the 1970s. A dealer let me do it, and had she (yes she) not let me do it would not own this coin, and a couple of others today. >>
Ex: Natalie Halpern
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
<< <i>I did the lay away thing a few times in the 1970s. A dealer let me do it, and had she (yes she) not let me do it would not own this coin, and a couple of others today. >>
Ex: Natalie Halpern >>
Catherine Bullowa
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Gee, how will dealers stay in business if we don't kiss up to great regular customers like those.... >>
You must be in an area that attracts real classy customers
If you offer it and they dont observe the terms, they never get it again- simple. >>
We have a lot of great customers... and frankly the problem guys weren't a problem pre-layaway. It just got to a point with a few, 2-3 in particular, that they were basically taking advantage of us- so we made the business decision to discontinue the practice. It's not like we had a huge amount of layaways anyhow.
That said, we'll still occasionally hold something a couple days for someone depending on the item, decided on a case by case basis... but it has to be a solid, known quantity customer and nothing long term, period.
It's been said that layaways are much like credit cards; they're an inducement for people to spend money they don't have, to buy things they can't afford, to impress people they don't like.
<< <i>The most familiar terms I am aware of are three payments, an initial one and two additional at 30 and 60 days. Under this scheme, most people will complete a transaction.
This question has been around for a long time. I know my grandmother, a collector, bought her most financially significant coin in the mid 1960's, a "gem" High Relief $20 on payments for a total of $600 or so. She paid it off over time and I have some of the receipts that I keep as a momento. When the coin eventually became mine I had it certified as PCGS MS 62, it had a bit of flattening of the knee. Grandmother was not of much financial means, but she taught piano lessons and at 35 cents a lesson, she was able to buy some coins. She was able to take advantage of a longer-term payment plan and got a very important coin that way. >>
Back in 1976 I had coin a lay-away with a dealer for about a month after I paid for it and received it had a scratch on it that had not been there before. This is one of the downsides. Back in the days before slabs and the use of staples with flips bad stuff like this could happen.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I wanted to post earlier but had to refrain after all the snotty replies that if you need layaway then you shouldn't be buying coins. I guess the hypocrites that wrote that have always paid in full. To each he is own I guess.
LOL
I am amazed at all the people on here that are perfect in their every day lives, of course it is easy to type anything that sounds good.
You are going to have some issues in any business you run, i have quite a few rent properties and i can not tell you what year every single person had their rent paid by the 5th, it just does not happen anymore. I have some rents on weekly, bi weekly and a few will pay 6 months at tax refund time. I have done this for 25 years now and i can tell who will and who will not pay. I would do lay a way in a second but i would make darn sure they knew the terms.
My personal take on stores/dealers that do not do lay a ways, they are probably on the edge of going under if they can not afford to tie up 50k worth of coins for 90 days
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
My personal take on stores/dealers that do not do lay a ways, they are probably on the edge of going under if they can not afford to tie up 50k worth of coins for 90 days
Gee. Walmart must be ready to go under then, because they only recently brought back their layaway program at the holidays, and only for certain types of items. It's not a matter of being able to afford it; it's about what makes good business sense for that particular business. What if someone wants to layaway something that has a thin margin? For example, if someone wants to tie up something that will net me at best 5% profit max then I'm not going to be too crazy about waiting 3 months to get paid when I can make a call and flip it for virtually the same money. Cash flow is highly important to every business, big or small.
<< <i>if a buyer needs layaway they probably shouldn't be buying coins.
Bingo. >>
The word "needs" is making too big of an assumption. I used layway, once. I didn't feel like using all my cash for this one piece ($800), didn't feel like writing a check, and was ok buying from the dealer (local guy). He gave me up to 3 months layaway. I used it kind of as a "getting to know you" test as I was new to him and I like to learn my dealers.
I called him a week or two after the show, had him meet me in a public place with a lot of traffic on the weekend, and gave him the rest (~$600) of the cash. He passed my test and I guess I passed his
Did I "need" layway? nope. Had enough "coin money" for the coin, just didn't want to use everything I had in my wallet when I was buying a coin I hadn't planned on. It was a nice 1795 LE 1/2 cent that I finally, after about 6 years, had graded by PCGS....graded at what I bought it for...VG08. He was an EAC dealer and knew his stuff. I got to know him a little after this "layaway".
Did it help the dealer? I think so. He made a sale and got a customer.
Would I expect it of every dealer? Nope. Each should make their own choice. I have been offered layway more than a few times. I don't buy what I don't already have cash for though. I will say that the dealers that have offered it to me....I appreciate them.
Would I do it on items that fluctuate crazily? Nope...not in a million years. Someone WILL get burned and resent the other party. Whether it is the dealer getting burned or the customer getting burned...almost doesn't matter as it will happen, sooner or later, with the "modern/bullion of the day" type of thing.
I didn't expect this thread to generate this much interest. Obviously it's an issue for most. Due to the volatile nature of some of the items we sell I will keep the no layaway policy in effect as a general rule, but make exceptions where it seems most appropriate (something we would not do before). Thanks again to all who responded.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I've only done layaways a couple of times in my life. They allowed me to acquire coins that were otherwise out of my reach, and I appreciated it immensely. I regard the two dealers who allowed me to to it as very good friends.
<< <i>My personal take on stores/dealers that do not do lay a ways, they are probably on the edge of going under if they can not afford to tie up 50k worth of coins for 90 days
Gee. Walmart must be ready to go under then, because they only recently brought back their layaway program at the holidays, and only for certain types of items. It's not a matter of being able to afford it; it's about what makes good business sense for that particular business. What if someone wants to layaway something that has a thin margin? For example, if someone wants to tie up something that will net me at best 5% profit max then I'm not going to be too crazy about waiting 3 months to get paid when I can make a call and flip it for virtually the same money. Cash flow is highly important to every business, big or small. >>
I do agree on the 5 percent, but i thought we had already ruled out bullion for lay a way.
Some business have terms of 30 to 90 days to pay anyway so a 90 day lay a way should not hurt to bad.
While not lay a way, i have sold many a mobile home or mobile home lot on payment with 25 percent down and years to pay out. On the lots the 25 percent covered my cost and the monthly payments was the icing. The 25 percent down on the mobile homes covered about 70 percent of my cost.
You just have to figure out what works for you.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Comments
As long as its a "no cost" plan.......
And since John is asking the question.....yes it will increase your sales......
One guy in particular stood out- he'd put something back with the clear understanding-in writing- that it would be paid in full by xx/xx/xx date. Meanwhile he's going to other guys and paying them in cash, buying stuff online/mail order, peeling out cash at shows...and we wouldn't care about that in the slightest... except when it came time to pay us- you guessed it- there would always be an excuse as to why he needed more time, etc. on items that frankly weren't that expensive as a rule. We gave the guy every break possible, but the final straw was when he wanted to totally unravel and bail on a deal after over 6 months. $500 deal, he put down $50 and agreed that the balance would be paid 90 days hence. We gave him 90 days, and another 90 beyond that-interspersed with a few phone calls that were never returned-and he finally shows up wanting his $50 back because he "already picked one up a couple weeks ago". We said no, explained why, he got bent and left.
I had another guy who wanted a 1955 proof set- he stopped by the store on his way home from work, said he didn't have any cash on him, didn't want to put it on the card, and asked if I could hold it for a week until he got paid. I said OK, a week hence is (date). See you then. That week went by, another week went by, I went on vacation for a week and upon my return found that he still hadn't picked it up... gave it a few days more(!), and a day after I finally put it back in stock, he finally shows up, and sees it in the case. He says "Is that a new 55 set?" I said "No, that's the one you were looking at." He replied (sounding genuinely miffed), "I TOLD you to hold that for me-so what's it doing in the case?". I replied, "You said you'd be back for it in a week; it's been a month- so we finally put it back in stock yesterday... but the good news is that it is still here if you want it." He just glared at me and stomped out.
Gee, how will dealers stay in business if we don't kiss up to great regular customers like those....
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Gee, how will dealers stay in business if we don't kiss up to great regular customers like those.... >>
You must be in an area that attracts real classy customers
If you offer it and they dont observe the terms, they never get it again- simple.
I have bought quite a few coins on layaway from a fairly big online and catalog dealer without a problem.For me its a good way to get higher end moderns ie plat eagles or certified gold coins without having to come up with $2k at one time.I take my contract seriously so there isnt any nonsense if the pm price moves up or down.If MCM offered layaway I would certainly use their company but it doesnt sound like John thinks its a good idea,so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
I wanted to post earlier but had to refrain after all the snotty replies that if you need layaway then you shouldn't be buying coins. I guess the hypocrites that wrote that have always paid in full. To each he is own I guess.
I appreciate the post and I wouldn't hold it against you for not doing layaway. After looking at some of the other dealers replies it seems like a hassle.
I like the layaway option, it gives a small time collector like me a chance to branch out into some nicer coins. I consider myself pretty fininacially responsible, not to much debt, good credit score, etc... and I could do some juggling, sell some other stuff, cancel a vacation, etc... to purchase a 3K coin but why do that if I could instead put 20% down and pay the rest off in payments.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
As a dealer I had a couple of lay away transactions and never had any problems.
<< <i>I did the lay away thing a few times in the 1970s. A dealer let me do it, and had she (yes she) not let me do it would not own this coin, and a couple of others today. >>
Ex: Natalie Halpern
<< <i>
<< <i>I did the lay away thing a few times in the 1970s. A dealer let me do it, and had she (yes she) not let me do it would not own this coin, and a couple of others today. >>
Ex: Natalie Halpern
Catherine Bullowa
<< <i>
<< <i>Gee, how will dealers stay in business if we don't kiss up to great regular customers like those.... >>
You must be in an area that attracts real classy customers
If you offer it and they dont observe the terms, they never get it again- simple. >>
We have a lot of great customers... and frankly the problem guys weren't a problem pre-layaway.
It just got to a point with a few, 2-3 in particular, that they were basically taking advantage of us- so we made the business decision to discontinue the practice. It's not like we had a huge amount of layaways anyhow.
That said, we'll still occasionally hold something a couple days for someone depending on the item, decided on a case by case basis... but it has to be a solid, known quantity customer and nothing long term, period.
It's been said that layaways are much like credit cards; they're an inducement for people to spend money they don't have, to buy things they can't afford, to impress people they don't like.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>The most familiar terms I am aware of are three payments, an initial one and two additional at 30 and 60 days. Under this scheme, most people will complete a transaction.
This question has been around for a long time. I know my grandmother, a collector, bought her most financially significant coin in the mid 1960's, a "gem" High Relief $20 on payments for a total of $600 or so. She paid it off over time and I have some of the receipts that I keep as a momento. When the coin eventually became mine I had it certified as PCGS MS 62, it had a bit of flattening of the knee. Grandmother was not of much financial means, but she taught piano lessons and at 35 cents a lesson, she was able to buy some coins. She was able to take advantage of a longer-term payment plan and got a very important coin that way. >>
Great story!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>John,
I wanted to post earlier but had to refrain after all the snotty replies that if you need layaway then you shouldn't be buying coins. I guess the hypocrites that wrote that have always paid in full. To each he is own I guess.
LOL
I am amazed at all the people on here that are perfect in their every day lives, of course it is easy to type anything that sounds good.
You are going to have some issues in any business you run, i have quite a few rent properties and i can not tell you what year every single person had their rent paid by the 5th, it just does not happen anymore. I have some rents on weekly, bi weekly and a few will pay 6 months at tax refund time. I have done this for 25 years now and i can tell who will and who will not pay. I would do lay a way in a second but i would make darn sure they knew the terms.
My personal take on stores/dealers that do not do lay a ways, they are probably on the edge of going under if they can not afford to tie up 50k worth of coins for 90 days
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Gee. Walmart must be ready to go under then, because they only recently brought back their layaway program at the holidays, and only for certain types of items.
It's not a matter of being able to afford it; it's about what makes good business sense for that particular business.
What if someone wants to layaway something that has a thin margin? For example, if someone wants to tie up something that will net me at best 5% profit max then I'm not going to be too crazy about waiting 3 months to get paid when I can make a call and flip it for virtually the same money. Cash flow is highly important to every business, big or small.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>if a buyer needs layaway they probably shouldn't be buying coins.
Bingo. >>
The word "needs" is making too big of an assumption.
I used layway, once. I didn't feel like using all my cash for this one piece ($800), didn't feel like writing a check, and was ok buying from the dealer (local guy).
He gave me up to 3 months layaway. I used it kind of as a "getting to know you" test as I was new to him and I like to learn my dealers.
I called him a week or two after the show, had him meet me in a public place with a lot of traffic on the weekend, and gave him the rest (~$600) of the cash. He passed my test and I guess I passed his
Did I "need" layway? nope. Had enough "coin money" for the coin, just didn't want to use everything I had in my wallet when I was buying a coin I hadn't planned on. It was a nice 1795 LE 1/2 cent that I finally, after about 6 years, had graded by PCGS....graded at what I bought it for...VG08. He was an EAC dealer and knew his stuff. I got to know him a little after this "layaway".
Did it help the dealer? I think so. He made a sale and got a customer.
Would I expect it of every dealer? Nope. Each should make their own choice. I have been offered layway more than a few times. I don't buy what I don't already have cash for though. I will say that the dealers that have offered it to me....I appreciate them.
Would I do it on items that fluctuate crazily? Nope...not in a million years. Someone WILL get burned and resent the other party. Whether it is the dealer getting burned or the customer getting burned...almost doesn't matter as it will happen, sooner or later, with the "modern/bullion of the day" type of thing.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>My personal take on stores/dealers that do not do lay a ways, they are probably on the edge of going under if they can not afford to tie up 50k worth of coins for 90 days
Gee. Walmart must be ready to go under then, because they only recently brought back their layaway program at the holidays, and only for certain types of items.
It's not a matter of being able to afford it; it's about what makes good business sense for that particular business.
What if someone wants to layaway something that has a thin margin? For example, if someone wants to tie up something that will net me at best 5% profit max then I'm not going to be too crazy about waiting 3 months to get paid when I can make a call and flip it for virtually the same money. Cash flow is highly important to every business, big or small. >>
I do agree on the 5 percent, but i thought we had already ruled out bullion for lay a way.
Some business have terms of 30 to 90 days to pay anyway so a 90 day lay a way should not hurt to bad.
While not lay a way, i have sold many a mobile home or mobile home lot on payment with 25 percent down and years to pay out. On the lots the 25 percent covered my cost and the monthly payments was the icing. The 25 percent down on the mobile homes covered about 70 percent of my cost.
You just have to figure out what works for you.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"