For those of you with no family but formidable collection(s)
magikbilly
Posts: 6,780 ✭
Well, I have less days ahead than behind. That's ALL I want hear about that. PERIOD.
I have been amassing some truly heavy stuff for 23 years in many areas. What do I do with it after I am gone? Sell it now? Leave it those those will will appreciate it? They are mostly enemies/haters of one sort or but they are the few who can both identify and appreciate it? Many unique historical items. My experience has shown museums are the LAST place to go - curators both sides of the pond generally haven't clue - I worked with several and as saw first hand up and down east coast and across the pond. FDR's Mauretania collection was impressive (nowhere near as mine honestly) and he gave to the Smithsonian. eventually I found in on ebay bearing Smithsonian markings and cat. numbers. "Deaccession" I think is the term they used. I have no family, no children. It is true I have been negligent - it is all in my head. I single unique one-off photocards for example are postmarked on the significant day and location/time (in some cases withing the 24 hours after the incident shown on the obverse), bears a descriptive massage describing the event and has other qualities only an OCD nut like myself would notice. I could write an index card for each of what must be thousands of items and never finish. "...That's rust" - no, it is Lusitania wreck! "That's a Monopoly piece" - no, it is a 1938 Norman Bel Geddes designed prototype tear drop car of the future for General Motors..."That's just n old book" - no, it was designed by Donald Deskey. "That is just a snapshot" - no, it is Ray Lowey's work in action. "That is just a glass block" - no, it is a segment of a 1939 New York World's Fair building fragment" and so in. It is like a nightmare. Case in point - first ever photograph of Judy Garland, signed, making her TV debut in 1954/55 for The Man with the Golden Arm premier.- what to do - must be preserved. Unpublished snaps of her performing at he palace - gotta be saved! Lugosi 35,MM master w/soundtracks and papers. What to do? Bela Jr. Doesn't want them. What next? Simple auction?
How have you guys prepared for the inevitable? I have no one I can trust to parse this out properly I saw this happen to a long time dealer of note. His stuff was...mishandled to say the lest. Auction folks picked it clean.
Thanks for you thoughts Gents. All appreciated.
Eric
What have you guys done to preserve and protect your own collections for those after? Probably half is literally unique.
I have been amassing some truly heavy stuff for 23 years in many areas. What do I do with it after I am gone? Sell it now? Leave it those those will will appreciate it? They are mostly enemies/haters of one sort or but they are the few who can both identify and appreciate it? Many unique historical items. My experience has shown museums are the LAST place to go - curators both sides of the pond generally haven't clue - I worked with several and as saw first hand up and down east coast and across the pond. FDR's Mauretania collection was impressive (nowhere near as mine honestly) and he gave to the Smithsonian. eventually I found in on ebay bearing Smithsonian markings and cat. numbers. "Deaccession" I think is the term they used. I have no family, no children. It is true I have been negligent - it is all in my head. I single unique one-off photocards for example are postmarked on the significant day and location/time (in some cases withing the 24 hours after the incident shown on the obverse), bears a descriptive massage describing the event and has other qualities only an OCD nut like myself would notice. I could write an index card for each of what must be thousands of items and never finish. "...That's rust" - no, it is Lusitania wreck! "That's a Monopoly piece" - no, it is a 1938 Norman Bel Geddes designed prototype tear drop car of the future for General Motors..."That's just n old book" - no, it was designed by Donald Deskey. "That is just a snapshot" - no, it is Ray Lowey's work in action. "That is just a glass block" - no, it is a segment of a 1939 New York World's Fair building fragment" and so in. It is like a nightmare. Case in point - first ever photograph of Judy Garland, signed, making her TV debut in 1954/55 for The Man with the Golden Arm premier.- what to do - must be preserved. Unpublished snaps of her performing at he palace - gotta be saved! Lugosi 35,MM master w/soundtracks and papers. What to do? Bela Jr. Doesn't want them. What next? Simple auction?
How have you guys prepared for the inevitable? I have no one I can trust to parse this out properly I saw this happen to a long time dealer of note. His stuff was...mishandled to say the lest. Auction folks picked it clean.
Thanks for you thoughts Gents. All appreciated.
Eric
What have you guys done to preserve and protect your own collections for those after? Probably half is literally unique.
0
Comments
but I prefer Morgan Dollars
Also, we have an interest in some of the best music ever made(see sig line
Haven`t we met somewhere before...
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am in favor of auctions during life, personally. The trick is knowing when is a good time to part with things. This gives you the chance to make sure that everything is accurately catalogued, and know that it will go to folks who will be good caretakers of the items, as you have been. Of course it can be hard to let go.
Have you thought about auctioning part of your collection, but having the whole catalogued? That way you can engage an auction company to sell what you feel you can part with now, and stipulate in your will that the rest goes to the auction house with the proceeds distributed however you like? It might give you a sense of ease knowing how these treasures will be cared for after your passing (hopefully many, many years from now).
edit - sp.
merse
<< <i>Pass some on to people who care. This place is made up of true collectors with a wide range of interests. There`s someone for everything...
but I prefer Morgan Dollars
Also, we have an interest in some of the best music ever made(see sig line
Haven`t we met somewhere before...
You? Yes... you
Watch that "starting gun" I tell you
Remember Vera - "well meet again, some sunny day"
I will think about what you said. Thank you PF.
Eric
When I get to the Floyd backstage passes, signed albums and programs/tix stubs over 30 years I will think of you first.
Nobody in the family is interested in coins. They are only interested in the value they contain - in other words the $$$.
Rather than piece out the collection to them where they can be victimized by the hotel buyers, and less than upstanding dealers, I have decided to liquidate most of what I have and get down to a core collection that will be less than 100 coins.
So I have purchased the requisite Allstate cases and have been setting up at shows like the wannabe dealers. Being retired is very helpful in doing this as I have much more time to devote to the task. I am using this venue to liquidate as much as I can at retail (or slightly below retail) before I use other venues. A side benefit is that I get to deal with the public which I enjoy (of course there are those few that I could do without
Once I have exhausted this method, I plan to use Teletrade, Ebay, BST board and other such venues. I have already sold a few via the BST board - mostly responding to the "wanted" listings. I've also sold via Teletrade for some of the more esoteric items where you need lots of exposure. A third method I've tried is to consign a few coins with a trusted dealer. I expect all of this to take about 5 years.
After all of that, the core collection will be enjoyed by me until I am gone. It sits in the safe deposit box with explicit instructions on how to liquidate (if desired) by my heirs - they will go to auction. It also contains a spreadsheet with dates purchased, purchase price, current value, cert #'s etc. My heirs have no clue what the items are worth.
Now, if time is of the essence, my methods of liquidation may not be the best. I have been told that it takes as much time to sell a collection as to put it together - to get full value. I doubt it takes that long, but the timeframe is not usually short. If faced with that situation, other methods will work better.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In the end it is about relationships. Best case is that there are entities or individuals that will appreciate and carry on your passions. If there is someone that you know loves one of your pieces, and you leave it to them out of blue, it is almost a guarantee that they will cherish that piece forever. If you aren't comfortable giving the items to an entity or individuals it is usually best to liquidate and leave the cash to worthy causes. Leaving very specific and limited scope collectibles to a charity usually ends with tremendous waste. Giving the humane society a box of coins ain't gonna maximize the benefit for anyone you wish benefit. If you don't have someone you are comfortable handling your estate, handle most of it ahead of time.
Enjoy the stuff that you can. When you realize you are no longer as interested in a particular area get rid of the stuff. At least in an auction format the stuff goes to people who will appreciate it.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
don't think you really need to worry about it. By that I mean to say that all will go to strangers in the
end. So, keep it and let someone else deal with it. Enjoy to the end.
A lady I knew through investments (another story) was a serious antique glass dealer. No kin. She
just held it to the end and then at the last minutes gave it to her care givers, including her real estate.
The care givers, a man and wife, took good care of her for about three years. They were paid well and
she got to stay home with her cats and antiques. They did not own their own home so I'm quite sure
they were elated to receive it all.
Another, a friend here in the neighborhood, has a wonderful buffalo collection as well as bullion coins all
mint issued and in the original boxes. Gold, silver and plat. No kin. He asked me to buy his collection but
I passed and sent him to others that would be interested and I think that's how he'll handle it. Sell it
off and leave the money to charity. House to the state, I presume. He did mortgage it to the hilt to minimize
the state's gift.
So, do what you want. Keep it to the end and don't worry, just enjoy it. Or, find a way to dispose of it and
plan on leaving the cash to the Red Cross, Boy Scouts, Church or such.
There are worthy medical research outfits that sure need the money. Somebody's donation will be the one
to find the cure for xxxxxx.
bob
I often thought that it would be so wonderful knowing that untold numbers of strangers could find pleasure enjoying my acquisitions.
Also, while the thought of "Deaccession" may be a concern for the OP, I think at some point even the most OCD of us* has to remember that our ability to control will stop at our deathbed.
*and I might possibly be.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
We are prisoners of our possessions. Get rid of them now. You'll be amazed at how much better you will feel.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Is there any charitable organization that you have strong feelings about who you could leave the proceeds to?
<< <i>We are prisoners of our possessions. Get rid of them now. You'll be amazed at how much better you will feel. >>
And how much of YOUR collection have you followed your own advice with?
This is a tough call for anyone, but gives rise to the benefit of planning in advance (something my profession has trained me to do). I've left sort of a "Coin Will", including directions/access to my Excel spreadsheet, noting how to approach to disposition of anything which remains of my collection after I'm gone. I've kept meticulous records, albeit admittedly almost certainly incomplete, showing what I've paid, when purchased, estimated value, and of course, have several reference materials I've noted - U.S. Coins Red Book, and online values such as PCGS and NGC.
I have a lot of loose stuff I acquired when I bought an entire collection, and hope to liquidate that while I'm still breathing enough to do so. It may be time consuming for those I leave behind, but it will at least be as organized as my presently enlightened self can be, given my less organized approach to stuff I have little interest in.
I'm currently in the market to adopt, but in the interests of propriety, will keep those details to myself! Suffice it to say the approach has already been attempted in Florida for far more nefarious reasons, so perhaps it might work more productively in my case?
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>I am in a similar situation.
Nobody in the family is interested in coins. They are only interested in the value they contain - in other words the $$$.
Rather than piece out the collection to them where they can be victimized by the hotel buyers, and less than upstanding dealers, I have decided to liquidate most of what I have and get down to a core collection that will be less than 100 coins.
So I have purchased the requisite Allstate cases and have been setting up at shows like the wannabe dealers. Being retired is very helpful in doing this as I have much more time to devote to the task. I am using this venue to liquidate as much as I can at retail (or slightly below retail) before I use other venues. A side benefit is that I get to deal with the public which I enjoy (of course there are those few that I could do without
Once I have exhausted this method, I plan to use Teletrade, Ebay, BST board and other such venues. I have already sold a few via the BST board - mostly responding to the "wanted" listings. I've also sold via Teletrade for some of the more esoteric items where you need lots of exposure. A third method I've tried is to consign a few coins with a trusted dealer. I expect all of this to take about 5 years.
After all of that, the core collection will be enjoyed by me until I am gone. It sits in the safe deposit box with explicit instructions on how to liquidate (if desired) by my heirs - they will go to auction. It also contains a spreadsheet with dates purchased, purchase price, current value, cert #'s etc. My heirs have no clue what the items are worth.
Now, if time is of the essence, my methods of liquidation may not be the best. I have been told that it takes as much time to sell a collection as to put it together - to get full value. I doubt it takes that long, but the timeframe is not usually short. If faced with that situation, other methods will work better. >>
This is great advice and will give you some fun alongside the way. It also gets the stuff to people who will treasure it too and leaves you capitial to give to a charity you see fit.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
1) Know what it is
2) Appreciate it for what it is
3) Establish a value, not just monetarily, but as a cultural relic
and, it will:
4) Provide you with some "fun money" if you should need it.
I knew it would happen.
2) Is there an honest potential that the pieces will stagnate in value or go down?
3) If so, are you independently wealthy or are there things you would like to do that you can't currently afford to do?
4) If so, sell everything but maybe a few pieces that you really "enjoy" and enjoy your life
5) If the value isn't there, or you honestly don't need it, so selling isn't a real option, then what do YOU want to do with it? Talk to a museum or other such organization? Find some young collectors to spur them on? Friends that collect similar? Try burying it with you to keep it from other's hands?
6) Adopt me and send interesting items to me
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
There are a host of software packages out there to document and cataloge collections.
<< <i>
<< <i>
You? Yes... you
Watch that "starting gun" I tell you
Remember Vera - "well meet again, some sunny day"
I will think about what you said. Thank you PF.
Eric >>
I've been grappling with that ? and Vera does make you think
Vera Lynn "Some Sunny Day"
<< <i>I'm currently in the market to adopt, but in the interests of propriety, will keep those details to myself! Suffice it to say the approach has already been attempted in Florida for far more nefarious reasons, so perhaps it might work more productively in my case?
I understand the need to protect your assets, but having sex with your "daughter" just doesn't sit well with me.
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>We are prisoners of our possessions. Get rid of them now. You'll be amazed at how much better you will feel. >>
And how much of YOUR collection have you followed your own advice with?
>>
Quite a bit, actually. I've been an incurable collector since my first paper route, and that is more years than I care to remember. I've always assumed I would leave my collections to my kids. However, none of them have even the slightest interest in anything I collect. So to avoid the burden of them having to liquidate it all, I began doing so myself last year. The first few items were very difficult to part with, but it does get easier with time. I still do make occasional purchases, though, either to ease the separation anxiety or to give as gifts to the grandkids. But by and large, I can honestly say that it's been a positive experience for me. This obviously is a very personal thing. It's quite possible some may never be ready to part with their treasures, no matter what they are. However, sooner or later, the decision eventually will be out of your hands.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Best wishes,
Eric
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Its not part of my game plan to donate my coins to charity or family. I really like coins and being in the business, but my inventory is an income vehicle to finance my other hobbies while my job in financial pays the bills. There may be some residual infrastructure if someone in the family wants to get into the business but so far none of them have shown an interest. A guy I used to set up at shows with (my mentor when I started out in the business) recently blew out all his inventory to fuel his hobby of being a SugarDaddy to young women he met off SD sites and certain clubs. I have one of his few remaining coins on consignment. I asked him if he missed doing all the shows and he laughed telling me he was having the time of his life.
Coins can be an addiction that distracts you from many things in life and leads to bankruptcy. Remember the coin market crash of 1990?
If you have kids or GC teach them about the hobby, but investing in coins is there for them if they have the interest. Take what you have earned and enjoy it for you whether its boating, cars, travel, or that ranch in Montana. Donate my coins / business to charity or family? HECK NO!
<< <i>We are prisoners of our possessions. Get rid of them now. You'll be amazed at how much better you will feel. >>
Well put. I've been doing that for years while re-investing in more liquid and tangible items. It's been a fun ride.
It didn't happen everytime, but I saw families twist and fragment over fairly insignificant piles of coins. It was one of the sadder parts of that job.
It sounds like you have an incredibly diverse (and fascinating!) collection. There are good auction houses for relic-type collectibles, others for photography, or printed material, or books, or coins, or just about every specialty. Some are well known, some are obscure and specialized, but there is someone skilled at handling nearly everything. It sometimes just takes some effort figuring out what goes to whom.
In the case of distinctive collections, sometimes they're best offered intact than broken into lots. There is such a thing as the whole being worth more than the sum of its parts, especially where there is some degree of difficulty involved.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>I would agree. Liquidate and enjoy the money as you wish. But I'd keep a box of 20 just to look at.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm currently in the market to adopt, but in the interests of propriety, will keep those details to myself! Suffice it to say the approach has already been attempted in Florida for far more nefarious reasons, so perhaps it might work more productively in my case?
I understand the need to protect your assets, but having sex with your "daughter" just doesn't sit well with me. >>
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
The best way to not lose value for your collection is to sell it off before you die. The drawback is that you will need to pay taxes on the profits. If you let your heirs sell off your collection, there will be NO taxes due by anyone. Instead you could give it all to a charity now. You get a big tax deduction that you may well use for a few years ahead.
If you decide to keep anything until you die, better make sure it is in PCGS holders, so your survivors get full value when they sell.
Agree with you completely that many museum staffs simply do not know how to bundle, preserve handle and present collection – have witnessed it myself.
RawMorgan provides a great idea; find someone to build the catalogue gratis, and then pay someone to publish a nice glossy catalogue. This will give others (such as myself) the chance to SEE what you put together. I have a bunch of catalogues because I enjoy looking at the collection as a whole – this provides some glimpse into the collector mindset and adds an educational context to the collection that you cannot get form a single piece alone. In other words, you leave behind a legacy and a provenance. Creating value simply from context.
Once the collection is catalogued, then auction it out.
And, something not mentioned yet, please look into a charitable remainder trust. You can auction the collection, put the $$ in a trust, live off the annuity, avoid the tax hit and pass on the remainder to the charity. That way, you enjoy the monetary value of the collection while still alive; leave one legacy with the charity (in the form of $$ left behind) and leave yet another legacy in the provenance of the collection by sharing such through the catalogue.
Best to you…
Ron
<< <i>Several people that know I have a collection but not the extent of it have asked what will happen to the collection if I go before I dispose of my coins. I always tell them to go on up to my house after I'm gone and fight over it with the rest of them. No one bothers to learn about or ask questions about it while I'm alive so to quote Rhett Butler, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."
Ron >>
excellent
Break down your collection into the categories - coins, autographs, stamps, other stuff.
Then pick some portions of it and offer it as the prize to some kind of contest in each category. Chose the winner of the context yourself, this way he/she will remember that magikbilly started/enhanced their collection for years to come
Fund some kind of stipend for young collectors in the area of your interests - let them take classes, possibly finance some trips in the search of their treasures.
If your collection is really sizable - establish magikbilly prize in Numismatics similar to Nobel prize
Either way you chose - pass to people who will remember it the most...
<< <i>We are prisoners of our possessions. Get rid of them now. You'll be amazed at how much better you will feel. >>
It's just stuff, very cool stuff, but never the less stuff. If there are things that a local historical society would appreciate, leave them to it. A few family things here are going to cousins, while the bulk of our estate is going to charity.
If you can't sell it, you don't own it, it owns you.
As for selling to get top dollar, the best recommendations have already been made; a CAC submission helps for those coins worthy of that sticker. Getting current offers from Heritage or Spectrum for appraisal or insurance purposes would be wise. Many coins do not belong in auction but rather as direct cash offer pieces.
As for the beneficiary of the largess when sold or when the estate is settled, I would say that the owner should look at their ideological orientation and make decisions about who would be most benefited and appreciative and possibly pay for a consultation with someone who is gifted in doing this impartially. There are so many charities and foundations in the world; also the government always needs tax funds, that goes without saying. It's strange the way obscenely wealthy pharaohs and other notables decided to be buried with their estates; I guess they didn't see their contemporaries worthy of what they had acquired through painstaking labor or conquest.
Huh? Not to get off topic but I retired from the I.T. field at 55 and, for the past five years, have been employed as a part-time cataloger for one of the "big" auction houses and am having more fun than ever (I'm now 62) and am doing fine health-wise.
Anyway, back on topic. While I do have a wife and two kids, they don't have much interest in my collection so I keep a detailed inventory list and have laid out very specific instructions - if there's a particular item you want to keep, fine, but if you just want the "cash", then it all goes to Heritage (with the appropriate contact info kept in the SDB along with the collection).
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
It would help to have one or two fellow collectors or dealers whom you really trust designated to dispose of the stuff when you are gone, but then again you need to figure out what you want the proceeds used for.
Also, there are gift annuities available...give the collection to a school or charity now and get a huge tax deduction and an annual income for life.
Commems and Early Type