Milk Spots - is there a timeframe on their development?

mbogoman

I've never had a problem with milk spots on my ASEs until now. Several of my 25th Anniversary holdings have developed spots - some of them severe. I have been checking them every other month or so, and up until now had escaped unscathed. Two from my 70 "keeper" set have spots (the RP has two very small spots on the bottom of the gown; the PR is hopeless now, it looks like someone sneezed on it). Two of my "hold for later sale" 69 set also have spots.

I have ASEs going back to the earliest days, both in OGP and slabs, none of which have ever developed the curse. All, including the above, are stored in the same place. My question is this: Is there a certain timeframe that these things develop in? In other words, are they ever truly in the clear (safe from spotting)? The above spotted examples all came from my Box of 5 sets submitted in the first week eligible. Most of the others that I have kept from that box are spotless, including one other RP that I was going to sell.

TIA,

Zoins

These coins seem unstable. It's a shame as they are a beautiful design.

ricko

With the knowledge that this is a potential problem, I am surprised that more do not acetone rinse them immediately upon receipt.... it seems to prevent the milk spots. I have not heard of any spotting on ASE's that were acetone rinsed. Please advise if you know of any. Cheers, RickO

mbogoman

<< <i>With the knowledge that this is a potential problem, I am surprised that more do not acetone rinse them immediately upon receipt.... it seems to prevent the milk spots. I have not heard of any spotting on ASE's that were acetone rinsed. Please advise if you know of any. Cheers, RickO >>



Yes...but in my case, the box had to be submitted unopened in order to get the necessary labeling for the entire set. Can't very well give them an acetone bath if the grading company requires the mint sealed box to be unopened...

joeykoins

Man, you guy's are scaring me. Please. From what I'm hearing, only the "raw" eagles, seem to be in the most danger of the dreaded "milk spots". I know what your going to say. Even the slabs are not safe! Well, so far ( fingers crossed ) so good on my 25 NGC ms69's. So what I suggest to people, Please get them in the plastic, before It's too late. I hope I didn't jinx myself?

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>With the knowledge that this is a potential problem, I am surprised that more do not acetone rinse them immediately upon receipt.... it seems to prevent the milk spots. I have not heard of any spotting on ASE's that were acetone rinsed. Please advise if you know of any. Cheers, RickO >>



Yes...but in my case, the box had to be submitted unopened in order to get the necessary labeling for the entire set. Can't very well give them an acetone bath if the grading company requires the mint sealed box to be unopened... >>



Don't some TPGs do that as a service?

Zoins

<< <i>Man, you guy's are scaring me. Please. From what I'm hearing, only the "raw" eagles, seem to be in the most danger of the dreaded "milk spots". I know what your going to say. Even the slabs are not safe! Well, so far ( fingers crossed ) so good on my 25 NGC ms69's. So what I suggest to people, Please get them in the plastic, before It's too late. I hope I didn't jinx myself? >>



Slabs are "safe" in that you have a grade guarantee, but coins have been known to develop spots in slabs.

mbogoman

<< <i>Man, you guy's are scaring me. Please. From what I'm hearing, only the "raw" eagles, seem to be in the most danger of the dreaded "milk spots". I know what your going to say. Even the slabs are not safe! Well, so far ( fingers crossed ) so good on my 25 NGC ms69's. So what I suggest to people, Please get them in the plastic, before It's too late. I hope I didn't jinx myself? >>



Slabbing the coins does not protect them. All of mine were "First Strike" slabbed in November. The spots did not show up until now - ergo (I love that word!), they developed their spots AFTER slabbing...

joeykoins

Now you got me thinking to flip mine before the " Metamorphosis" Man-n-n!

pmac

Can either PCGS or some other knowedgeable person state their (PCGS) policy on the development of spots in their slabs after slabbing? This seems to be a situation that could be cost prohibitive to them if they are guaranteeing no spots after slabbing.

pmac

<< <i>With the knowledge that this is a potential problem, I am surprised that more do not acetone rinse them immediately upon receipt.... it seems to prevent the milk spots. I have not heard of any spotting on ASE's that were acetone rinsed. Please advise if you know of any. Cheers, RickO >>


I've not tried this. Is this a tried and true solution to the problem? If so, my 20th & 25th Anniversary sets are taking a dive soon (into acetone).

joeykoins

Yeah! good point!

Zoins

<< <i>Can either PCGS or some other knowedgeable person state their (PCGS) policy on the development of spots in their slabs after slabbing? This seems to be a situation that could be cost prohibitive to them if they are guaranteeing no spots after slabbing. >>



In the past, PCGS has made good on their grade guarantee for ASE milk spotting. I'm not sure if the policy has changed.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Man, you guy's are scaring me. Please. From what I'm hearing, only the "raw" eagles, seem to be in the most danger of the dreaded "milk spots". I know what your going to say. Even the slabs are not safe! Well, so far ( fingers crossed ) so good on my 25 NGC ms69's. So what I suggest to people, Please get them in the plastic, before It's too late. I hope I didn't jinx myself? >>



Slabbing the coins does not protect them. All of mine were "First Strike" slabbed in November. The spots did not show up until now - ergo (i love that word!), they developed their spots AFTER slabbing... >>



The spots were already there BEFORE slabbing. The chemical reaction needed to complete the transformation and make the spots visible had not been fully completed at the time the coins were slabbed. I have not heard of any spotting in raw 25th sets, but ASE coins have been found spotted in unopened mint tubes.

tneig

This seems common. My plain unc ASEs have some milky spot trace on at least 1/3 of mine somewhere from the start. I haven't bought tubes or sealed unc ones yet, so they've had some pre-exposure. Think its difficult to expect the same lasting qualities of a hard metal coins skin, in a softer silver bullion coin that is known to spot. The sealed proofs seem to have done ok, but I'll look closer at the oldest ones. Perhaps they do better because of the proof minting.

I've been told, that the spotting is an imperfection in the alloy blend, not just external contamination. I'd be happy if they toned a little instead.

mbogoman

I'm going to try steer this discussion back to my original intent. The milk spotting problem has been talked about plenty on this board for years, with many theories and possible solutions posted. What I'm trying to get a handle on is the time window that one could reasonably expect the spots to show up, if they're going to show up at all. In other words, when is an ASE "in the clear"?

If the spots don't show up after 6 months are they going to show up at all?

Has anybody had spots appear after a year (or longer) of no spots?

I realize there won't be a definitive answer, chiefly because the root cause has never been positively identified, but we should be able to come up with a reasonable timeframe estimate/window for spot manifestation on these coins...

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I'm going to try steer this discussion back to my original intent. The milk spotting problem has been talked about plenty on this board for years, with many theories and possible solutions posted. What I'm trying to get a handle on is the time window that one could reasonably expect the spots to show up, if they're going to show up at all. In other words, when is an ASE "in the clear"?

If the spots don't show up after 6 months are they going to show up at all?

Has anybody had spots appear after a year (or longer) of no spots?

I realize there won't be a definitive answer, chiefly because the root cause has never been positively identified, but we should be able to come up with a reasonable timeframe estimate/window for spot manifestation on these coins... >>



There is no time frame for appearance and no assurance that they won't appear after x months or years. It has also been said here any number of times that if you use a halogen flashlight that you can detect spotting BEFORE it becomes visible to the unaided eye. At that point it is still possible to "conserve" the coin by dipping in EZest. IMO there are 2 types of spots. Milky white which are chlorine based i.e. silver chloride and tea colored which are probably organic based and treatable with an acetone dip.

Bankerbob56

I have collected the unc SAE since inception, stored all but the anniversary sets in a Dansco, and to date I have not seen the first milkspot on any of my "coins." The sets remain in their OGP and are spot free.

Just an FYI...............

epcjimi1

<< <i>Can either PCGS or some other knowedgeable person state their (PCGS) policy on the development of spots in their slabs after slabbing? This seems to be a situation that could be cost prohibitive to them if they are guaranteeing no spots after slabbing. >>



I think you have to do a "guarantee resubmission".



guarantee policy

guarantee resubmission procedure and fees

Goldbully

That's why I sold my 5 sets....all graded by PCGS.
I had two 70 FS sets and wanted to keep one, but remembered my 20th Anniversary sets.....almost 35% of the 10 sets had milk spots.

BigA

I'm not as worried about the 70's as I am about the 69's which they consider "grade appropriate" with spots

ricko

<< <i>Is this a tried and true solution to the problem? >>



It is an apparent solution.... I have not heard of any ASE's developing milk spots after an acetone rinse.
As far as a time frame, that is difficult. On this forum, I have seen instances of reported milk spots in as short as a few weeks, up to a year.... of course, the spots likely developed before the year was out, but not noticed until then. The cause has never been proven, and, it still occurs - so the mint has not identified a preventive method as yet.
Cheers, RickO

tahoe98

so the mint has not identified a preventive method as yet.

...i wonder if they're really worried about it.

LostSisler

I'd posted this awhile back but thought that I would show it again;
This is the stuff that makes the spots. When it is not fully washed off the planchets it will later cause spots to appear once it begins to react with the atmosphere.
The spots are commonly removed using a jewelers steam cleaner as the spots are extremely thin and often only noticed within fields.

The bag of cleaning detergent belongs to the US Mint and has been on loan to The ANA since the 1980's for a display of the coining process.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Is this a tried and true solution to the problem? >>



It is an apparent solution.... I have not heard of any ASE's developing milk spots after an acetone rinse.
As far as a time frame, that is difficult. On this forum, I have seen instances of reported milk spots in as short as a few weeks, up to a year.... of course, the spots likely developed before the year was out, but not noticed until then. The cause has never been proven, and, it still occurs - so the mint has not identified a preventive method as yet.
Cheers, RickO >>



The mint neither knows nor cares. They purchase the blanks, but it is not known if they do anything more with them after they receive them other than to convert them into coins. I believe their source is the Sunshine mint. A former employee [he may still work there for all I know] said they got a proprietary rinsing/washing agent that was added to the wash/rinse water. He posted that here. His board name was Whistler or something like that.

puritan9

This is the very reason I sold all of my coins: slabbed and raw except for one set that is raw.

epcjimi1

Yep, there is risk with the 69s for the guarantee, it's appropriate for the grade, evidently. MS69s can have milkspots, as I understand it and be A-OK, good luck selling them, however.

I sold four 69 and (two seventy sets) recently because of the risks of milkspot potential and who knows what the price will do next.

Now that I know what I know - Get in, Get out. Take the money and don't look back.

Bankerbob56

Now that I know what I know - Get in, Get out. Take the money and don't look back.

.............and you call yourself a collector???