Fleer Pro Vision Thread
Rudedawg
Posts: 345 ✭✭
Hello all!!
I am new to the board, but collected as a kid and have collected seriously for about the last three years. Like a lot of others, my interest was re-kindled in my 30s. I am a PSA member and have a couple sets on the Registry.
I didn't see any forums devoted to the Fleer Pro Vision subsets and decided to start one of my own!! I think most people my age (32) remember this series and hopefully some will appreciate the memories that go along with it. I think it is a series (at least the 1991/1992 sets) that deserve some attention.
The 1991 Baseball Pro Vision set was one of my most memorable, as I was a kid of the Great Baseball Card Bubble in the late 80's/early 90s. I vividly remember buying packs of that wonderful (sarcasm) 1991 Fleer set and feeling the excitement of seeing that little black slit in the middle of the deck. The artwork by Terry Smith on these cards is simple and fantastic. The themes of the cards were entertaining (Will Clark's busting bat, Gooden's flaming glove, Bo's bionic forearm) and the eye appeal was second to none. The black borders worked really well with the artwork. They really captivated me as a kid and still do today.
Insert-mania in the card world seemed to start around 1991. Some believe it started to ruin the hobby, but, a great card is a great card. It is unfortunate that the base set of 1991 Fleer was so gaudy, but they hit a home run, imo, on the Fleer Pro Visions. When I started collecting again a few years ago, I immediately bought a set of the original 12 cards. They had all the big stars of that time (Clemens, Puckett, Will, Bo, Canseco). Some faded fast after 1991, but most went on to big careers. To my surprise and joy, I found that four more cards were included exclusively in Factory Sets. The white borders on this version also worked really well with the images of Bonds, Henderson, Sandberg and Dave Stewart.
Once I became aware of PSA and the card grading system, I decided to start a graded set. Much to my frustration, not very many of the Pro Vision cards were graded. The populations were very low and only came up for auction on eBay about once every 6 months. As time went on, I decided to attempt a Mint 9 or better set. I began buying boxes of 1991 Fleer and ripping packs. The black borders made it tough to find really nice examples and centering on a lot of the cards was poor. To me, it was a little frustrating at first, but that is the beauty of doing this set. It is not easy to get a super high grade and you really have to put in a lot of time. Submitting a raw, black border Pro Vision and getting a Mint 9 or Gem Mint 10 is a real thrill.
Anyway, I may post in the Set Registry forum on building the set, so I will move on..............
Because the same artist and design was used in both the 1991 Fleer Football and 1991 Fleer Basketball Pro Vision sets, those cards are just as appealing to me. The football Pro Visions is a little smaller set, but has great eye appeal with the silver borders. The basketball Pro Visions was an even smaller set, with only 6 cards, but the white borders made the cards hold their eye appeal well. I wish the set included a few more players (Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, etc), but oh well!! I also completed PSA sets of both the football and basketball sets.
The football set was done by pack ripping and was a little tougher because Fleer also placed All Pro subset cards in at the same rate. So, a box of 1991 Fleer football only gave about 2 or 3 Pro Visions. Some don't like the base set of 1991 Fleer Football, but I don't think it's too bad. One problem, overall, is that 1991 was not a boom year for RCs in baseball, football or basketball so the year gets overlooked a lot. A little Pro Vision gem is hidden in the Fleer Ultra Update set, namely Jerry Rice. Rice was the only Pro Vision in that set and I'm not sure why Fleer placed it there, possibly as a late addition.
Thanks to eBay, I found that Pro Visions were produced after 1991. As a kid, I do not remember the 1992-1995 sets. Terry Smith was again used for the 1992 sets and they are mostly on the same level as 1991's versions. Fleer decided to include the 1992 Pro Visions as part of the base set, so they took the same look as the base set. One of the downsides, to me, was that this caused any graded examples to be simply labeled as "1992 Fleer" and not specifically "1992 Fleer Pro Visions". Thus, a PSA Registry set cannot be done for Pro Visions in 1992.
The baseball set isn't quite as visually striking, but some big name stars got to be welcomed into the "Pro Vision Family", namely Nolan Ryan, Big Frank, Cal Ripken and Griffey. The green borders are little softer, but still work for me. They are a little easier to find in Mint 9 and Gem Mint 10.
The 1992 Football set has a few nice images and went with a white border. Elway's card is really appealing, as is the Art Monk. There aren't many graded from the football set, but it is pretty easy to find nice examples to submit. The real hit, I believe, was the Basketball set from 1992. The gold borders are very striking and gorgeous. They are my second favorite behind the 1991 Baseball set. The set is only 6 players (Drexler, Pippen, Isiah, etc) and I wish there were more. Not many of these are graded either.
1993 came along and something happened................Fleer apparently parted ways on their collaboration with Terry Smith and decided to bring in another artist for the future art conceptions. Needless to say, and I don't think I'm alone here, it was a mess. The images of the players were fine, but the background and "themes" for the cards became almost bizzare. There was WAY too much going on in the card and they were simply confusing. This was too bad because I thought the concept of the Pro Vision sets was fantastic. It showed a detailed, accurate likeness of our stars and blended that with giving them a "mythical" aura.
The 1993 football set wasn't too bad, and I believe Terry Smith may have still had a hand in making those designs. Either way, Fleer eliminated the sets within a few years. By that time, i was about 16 and out of the card collecting phase and into cars, girls and other manly endeavors
Anyone who wants to comment, share, disagree or anything else is more than welcome to do so!!!! I am in the process of submitting to PSA and completing all Pro Visions sets from 1991 and 1992 Baseball, Football and Basketball. Those who eBay, I will eventually have doubles that I will sell. It would be great to see others come on board and start collecting more of these, graded or un-graded.
I will post some pics of my collection later today or tommorow.
Cheers! Brandon
I am new to the board, but collected as a kid and have collected seriously for about the last three years. Like a lot of others, my interest was re-kindled in my 30s. I am a PSA member and have a couple sets on the Registry.
I didn't see any forums devoted to the Fleer Pro Vision subsets and decided to start one of my own!! I think most people my age (32) remember this series and hopefully some will appreciate the memories that go along with it. I think it is a series (at least the 1991/1992 sets) that deserve some attention.
The 1991 Baseball Pro Vision set was one of my most memorable, as I was a kid of the Great Baseball Card Bubble in the late 80's/early 90s. I vividly remember buying packs of that wonderful (sarcasm) 1991 Fleer set and feeling the excitement of seeing that little black slit in the middle of the deck. The artwork by Terry Smith on these cards is simple and fantastic. The themes of the cards were entertaining (Will Clark's busting bat, Gooden's flaming glove, Bo's bionic forearm) and the eye appeal was second to none. The black borders worked really well with the artwork. They really captivated me as a kid and still do today.
Insert-mania in the card world seemed to start around 1991. Some believe it started to ruin the hobby, but, a great card is a great card. It is unfortunate that the base set of 1991 Fleer was so gaudy, but they hit a home run, imo, on the Fleer Pro Visions. When I started collecting again a few years ago, I immediately bought a set of the original 12 cards. They had all the big stars of that time (Clemens, Puckett, Will, Bo, Canseco). Some faded fast after 1991, but most went on to big careers. To my surprise and joy, I found that four more cards were included exclusively in Factory Sets. The white borders on this version also worked really well with the images of Bonds, Henderson, Sandberg and Dave Stewart.
Once I became aware of PSA and the card grading system, I decided to start a graded set. Much to my frustration, not very many of the Pro Vision cards were graded. The populations were very low and only came up for auction on eBay about once every 6 months. As time went on, I decided to attempt a Mint 9 or better set. I began buying boxes of 1991 Fleer and ripping packs. The black borders made it tough to find really nice examples and centering on a lot of the cards was poor. To me, it was a little frustrating at first, but that is the beauty of doing this set. It is not easy to get a super high grade and you really have to put in a lot of time. Submitting a raw, black border Pro Vision and getting a Mint 9 or Gem Mint 10 is a real thrill.
Anyway, I may post in the Set Registry forum on building the set, so I will move on..............
Because the same artist and design was used in both the 1991 Fleer Football and 1991 Fleer Basketball Pro Vision sets, those cards are just as appealing to me. The football Pro Visions is a little smaller set, but has great eye appeal with the silver borders. The basketball Pro Visions was an even smaller set, with only 6 cards, but the white borders made the cards hold their eye appeal well. I wish the set included a few more players (Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, etc), but oh well!! I also completed PSA sets of both the football and basketball sets.
The football set was done by pack ripping and was a little tougher because Fleer also placed All Pro subset cards in at the same rate. So, a box of 1991 Fleer football only gave about 2 or 3 Pro Visions. Some don't like the base set of 1991 Fleer Football, but I don't think it's too bad. One problem, overall, is that 1991 was not a boom year for RCs in baseball, football or basketball so the year gets overlooked a lot. A little Pro Vision gem is hidden in the Fleer Ultra Update set, namely Jerry Rice. Rice was the only Pro Vision in that set and I'm not sure why Fleer placed it there, possibly as a late addition.
Thanks to eBay, I found that Pro Visions were produced after 1991. As a kid, I do not remember the 1992-1995 sets. Terry Smith was again used for the 1992 sets and they are mostly on the same level as 1991's versions. Fleer decided to include the 1992 Pro Visions as part of the base set, so they took the same look as the base set. One of the downsides, to me, was that this caused any graded examples to be simply labeled as "1992 Fleer" and not specifically "1992 Fleer Pro Visions". Thus, a PSA Registry set cannot be done for Pro Visions in 1992.
The baseball set isn't quite as visually striking, but some big name stars got to be welcomed into the "Pro Vision Family", namely Nolan Ryan, Big Frank, Cal Ripken and Griffey. The green borders are little softer, but still work for me. They are a little easier to find in Mint 9 and Gem Mint 10.
The 1992 Football set has a few nice images and went with a white border. Elway's card is really appealing, as is the Art Monk. There aren't many graded from the football set, but it is pretty easy to find nice examples to submit. The real hit, I believe, was the Basketball set from 1992. The gold borders are very striking and gorgeous. They are my second favorite behind the 1991 Baseball set. The set is only 6 players (Drexler, Pippen, Isiah, etc) and I wish there were more. Not many of these are graded either.
1993 came along and something happened................Fleer apparently parted ways on their collaboration with Terry Smith and decided to bring in another artist for the future art conceptions. Needless to say, and I don't think I'm alone here, it was a mess. The images of the players were fine, but the background and "themes" for the cards became almost bizzare. There was WAY too much going on in the card and they were simply confusing. This was too bad because I thought the concept of the Pro Vision sets was fantastic. It showed a detailed, accurate likeness of our stars and blended that with giving them a "mythical" aura.
The 1993 football set wasn't too bad, and I believe Terry Smith may have still had a hand in making those designs. Either way, Fleer eliminated the sets within a few years. By that time, i was about 16 and out of the card collecting phase and into cars, girls and other manly endeavors
Anyone who wants to comment, share, disagree or anything else is more than welcome to do so!!!! I am in the process of submitting to PSA and completing all Pro Visions sets from 1991 and 1992 Baseball, Football and Basketball. Those who eBay, I will eventually have doubles that I will sell. It would be great to see others come on board and start collecting more of these, graded or un-graded.
I will post some pics of my collection later today or tommorow.
Cheers! Brandon
Currently collecting PSA graded:
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
0
Comments
Mike
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
@mgugs46- That's great!! I'm sure a lot of collectors from that time has sets or singles of the 1991 Baseball Pro Vision set. Go ahead and submit to PSA, the more the merrier!!
Above are the Gem Mint 10 examples that I have. Here are some of my other favorites............
I will post some of the 1991 Football and Basketball PSA cards that I have tonight. If there are any you want to see in particular, just let me know. If you have any yourself, I'd LOVE to see them!!
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
@burke23- Nice Jordan!! Fleer did indeed have some good other inserts over 1991, 1992 and 1993. Thanks for posting
@kaka- Nice uploads, I knew people would have them buried somewhere!!
Here are some of my 1991 Football PSA examples. Only have two 9's right now, but next submission should bring some more 9's and maybe a few 10's.
And now, some of my PSA 10 1991 Basketball................the Jordan is probably undeserving of a 10, though
Some of the 1992 Baseball edition
And, a few of the 1992 Football..............
OK, just one more. This is the 1992 Basketball version and I included the whole set. Really think they are quality.....
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
http://www.terrysmithcreations.com/
In the "Illustrations.....Athletes" section, much of his Pro Vision work is in there, in addition to card artwork that I've never seen. Some of the work is for companies other than Fleer, but they are still fantastic. The first image of Barry Bonds with the "Juice" machine made me immediately go and try to find that card, which is actually a 1993 Diamond Marks "artwork" subset card. Smith collaborated with Barry Colla and they produced a set of "Bookmarks" for kids and included an 8-card "Pro Visions"-type set with it. The base set is 120 cards and uses regular photography, sharp looking cards. I found one eBay listing for the Bonds Artwork card that was a $300.00 Buy It Now/OBO auction. The listing had a few offers.
More digging revealed the Diamond Marks sets were fairly rare, with the 8-Card "Pro Visions" set only having about 1,250-2,000 examples per player. The players in the set are Bonds, Griffey Jr., Nolan Ryan, Dave Justice, John Olerud, Roberto Alomar, Robin Yount and Frank Thomas. I searched all over the internet and found a few dealers that some of the set. Prices were anywhere from $10.00 - $50.00 each. I found a few eBay listings that had 48-pack boxes of the Diamond Marks, which included only one Artwork card. I bought a few boxes fairly cheap to do some ripping.
Luck struck me a few days later and I found a seller that had the complete 120 card base set AND 5 of the Artwork subset. The price was very fair and I pulled the trigger. Just got them today......................
Smith's website had "Pro Vision" images for Jim Kelly, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Eric Dickerson, Roger Craig and others. It was really exciting to find. Some of the images were made for private collections, but I searched for them anyway. Did some digging on eBay and was able to find Postcard prints of many 1991/1992 Pro Visions images, including "cards that never were" of Jim Kelly, Roger Craig, Kareem and Coach Don Nelson. Bought every one they had available. Don't have them yet, but will post images when I do.
Should have my PSA Set Registry submission for my 1991 baseball set back by next week and also get to rip Diamond Mark packs to see if I can get the Artwork subset completed. Need Big Frank, Yount and Justice.
All in all, I guess I'm just a big fan of Terry Smith's athlete artwork!!!
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
I remember going to the drugstore with my sister and raiding the 4 pro-visions out of about 16 boxes of 1991 Fleer by looking throught the white wax wrapper sides for the black line that stood out against the typical yellow base card.
The neighborhood kids thought I was psychic.
Had traded a friend a set for several Nintendo games but his mom made him give them back.
1991 Fleer looks like it was designed using Microsoft Paint. The pictures on the back were a nice touch but otherwise shield your eyes from the safety yellow.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
I received my 3 boxes of 1993 Diamond Marks today to look for the remaining three Art Cards that I don't have, Frank Thomas, David Justice and Robin Yount. I really only need the Justice and Thomas since I found a seller that has two Younts for sale. I have had ZERO LUCK finding anyone with the Thomas or Justice. The Artwork set is 8 cards, so the chances of getting doubles was fairly high.....................
First box????? John Olerud.........already have TWO of this card, wasn't feeling too optimistic. But, this hobby reminded me of why I love it so much.
Second box???? BOOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ripped open the third box satisfied that I, at least, got one that I wanted and needed. But the third and last box?????????
DOUBLE BOOOOYAH!!!!!!!!!
Giggled and pumped my fist like a kid. I'm off to buy the Yount right now....................A set that I though would take months, only took me about two weeks. Will likely send them in to PSA, but they likely won't score high, even pack-fresh cards had dings and some edge/centering issues. Oh well, for the rarity of the set, I'm just glad to get to have them all!!!!!!!!
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Rude Dawg that name takes me back to the same time as these Provisions
@BunchO, VERY NICE piece you have there!! Thanks for posting, I love seeing any of the portraits I don't have. Gonna PM you.............
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Looking forward to some more PSA 10's in about 45 days
While I'm not nearly as impressed with the post-Terry Smith Pro Visions, I'm still happy to have them all. I didn't think to start this venture until I bought an eBay lot that had a big mix of Pro Visions from all years and sports. Either way, thought I should spread them all out and show:
Here is a close up of the 1993 set. I had never seen the Van Slyke before I received the card today. He looks confused....
Also had an unused picture frame laying around and wanted to make something to show my admiration
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
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They should put that Bonds' card in a dictionary for the definition of irony.
@BadMav- Much appreciated man!!
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Got about 3 or 4 more originals for her to do and may also have her do some of the 1991 Baseball white-border Factory cards with the original black borders. I'll post more when they are done.
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Last week, the seller makes it a .99 auction and I couldn't wait to see what happened...........
eBay Linky
Needless to say, I've got my best ruler and best box cutter ready to go,
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Corrected Link
Successful transactions with: yankeeno7, raiderguy10, Beck6, CDsNuts, DaveP01, Dboneesq, Elemenopeo, gameusedhoop, georgebailey2, Goldlabels, gstarling, justmichael, etc
Working on.........
Tony Dorsett Master Set
1977 Topps Mexican FB (raw)
1957 Topps FB Set (raw or graded)
Yeah, it's very nice, sharp cut on that card. Another tough aspect for those cards is keeping the surface clean and free from scratches after having no protection on the back of a cereal box.
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Here are my two favorites:
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
I as well remember pulling these pro-vison cards from the Fleer Baseball and Football packs.
They are awesome cards and still hold up just as well today.
The down side is that I still a 3-4 sets of the yellow base cards! LOL anybody need a set?
#1 Kirby Puckett PSA 8.5, PSA 8, PSA 6
#2 Will Clark (2) PSA 9, PSA 8
#3 Ruben Sierra PSA 9, PSA 8
#4 Mark McGwire PSA 9, (2) PSA 8
#5 Bo Jackson (3) PSA 9
#6 Jose Canseco (2) PSA 9, PSA 7
#9 Roger Clemons PSA 8
#11 Don Mattingly PSA 10, (2) PSA 9
#12 Darryl Strawberry (2) PSA 9, PSA 8
Factory:
#2 Rickey Henderson (2) PSA 8
#4 Dave Stewart PSA 9, PSA 8
PM me if interested and which cards you would like. We can arrange a price then.
I've recently picked up a couple cool items I've been searching on for a long time. This one has been especially tough. I've only seen two of them come up at eBay or any other venue. This is actually a 4 X 6 postcard that was created by Barry Colla and Terry Smith. The portrait of McGwire is similar to his 1991 Fleer PV card, but this one has his shirt sleeves cut off. So cool, right??
These are Pro Vision cards that were put onto the back of Wheaties boxes in 1991/1992. Only the basketball set was used for this promotion. Oddly, they did not include Magic Johnson's card. So, there are only 5 Pro Visions in this set. I picked up a few of these as pre-cut singles and the others as full boxes and I cut them out. Then, I was lucky enough to find an eBay lot that had all 8 box backs with all the cards intact. I previously posted an eBay auction of a PSA 10 Gem Wheaties Jordan that went for $1000+ It was a POP 1.
I'll post some more pick-ups I've had later.
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
Good eye on the Diamond Marks
Not sure how many other Art Inserts are graded, but designated regular Diamondmarks. There could be a few out there, I've never seen any PSA graded examples of them come up on eBay. Someday they will, though!! Perhaps I will call PSA today and see if they can give me any answers. I kind of wanted to do a Registry set for them just to show them off a bit. Without the Artwork Insert title, I won't be able to. I'll let ya know.
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps
From my research and experience, there is only ONE Art Insert card in each box of Diamondmarks. Each box has 48 packs of the regular issue base set. I purchased 4 sealed boxes many months ago and only got 4 of the Art Inserts cards. There were only about 10,000 total Diamondmarks 48-pack boxes produced. There are 8 total Art Insert cards in the set, so only about 1,250 of each Art Insert card was produced. They come up on eBay fairly often, so you can pick up a few of them.
They are VERY condition sensitive and centering is usually not very good. So, NM/Mint to Mint examples are really tough to find. One of my pulls from a sealed box was the David Justice. It went straight from the box to PSA and only got a Ex/Mint 6. The Frank Thomas and David Justice are the toughest ones to find.
1991 & 1992 Fleer Pro Visions
1952 Topps