<< <i>They didn't come from China yet people still complain. >>
I'm sure they do. Just not as many as there would be if they did come from China. >>
That's only reasonable, there are many more people in China.
No, all kidding aside: it's a cottage industry among seasoned Americans to complain about almost anything coming out of China. >>
I bought some cottage cheese out of China. Turned out to be recycled yak butter!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Simple for me.......If I had the talent, the means and the equipment that Dan Carr has I would be right there doing the same thing...............WTG Dan........
Yes, there are traces of the original coin strike in more than one place - date, stars, etc.
BTW - this coin is sensational in hand and looks as a matte proof. I think Dan should also sell blow up pictures of them. If my photographer dad could get his act together I would frame even a good picture of it...
Go Dan!
PS - I buy only one each of the issues I like and do NOT resell. Not all for me, but I like quite a few.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I have to go to a funeral. Please continue the piffing contest without me.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>These things should have some word on them like "COPY" or "FAKE." Then some scam artist will have a harder time selling these things as "a rare U.S. coin that has just been discovered from an unknown hoard." It's going to happen eventually, and when it does there will be a scandal. It will be one more excuse for those who like to dump numismatics to attack us all as a bunch of sharpies and con artists.
I fully support the Hobby Protection Act, and it angers me that these things are able to fly under it. >>
The date on the coins is hard to over-look.
Has anyone documented a case where someone spent many hundreds or thousands of dollars for one of the non-sensical Chinese fakes ? I'm not taliking about deceptive existing-date Bust dollars and the like, I'm talking about the non-sensical pieces like the "1846-CC" Seated Liberty, for example ? >>
A counterfeit coin is a counterfeit coin whether it is made in China or the U.S.
<< <i>It is precisely THIS discourse that will require the numismatic historians of future decades to publish diagnostics and historical accounts regarding the minting of these pieces. Whoever the Q. David Bowers of 2052 is, will write eloquently about Daniel Carr and the controversial opinions expressed by contemporary numismatists of OUR day, including (perhaps) publishing THIS very thread. Those future historical accounts may be positive or negative -- we can't know for sure -- but the low mintages and unique manufacture by an actual United States Coin designer -- overstriking actual coins using a retired mint press -- will create a demand for the limited supply of these unique collectibles. Like 'em or hate 'em, Daniel Carr has a good sense of how to parlay his knowledge and nexus to the coin design process to secure his place in numismatic history. The complete historical account of the "Daniel Carr Overstrikes" is a story not yet completed, and one that will not be written by ourselves. >>
Interesting commentary, and I generally agree.
Who hasn't dreamed of sneaking into a Mint and making some "neat" stuff ?
I'm fortunate that, in a sense, I get to do that - and I have a lot of numismatic fun doing it. If I didn't enjoy what I do, I'd do something else. >>
This reply reminded me of that fella that made up the 1913 Liberty Nickels but I guess thats a different subject.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Are you? Your antics are lame and what ever talent is clouded in my eyes by your disregard for your actions and the ramifications to our hobby. Your core (trite) argument is built around "intent" but if someone did exactly what you do but did it to deceive what exactly is the net difference? >>
What are the "ramifications to our hobby" of which you speak? What harm comes of this to coin collectors? >>
Great question ! It is the classic slippery slope to allow private manufacturers to make facsimiles of mint made products that can only be differentiated by small nuisances that only specialists know about. Show a DC 64d to my father and he will tell you about spending those when he was a kid, if he looks it up in the redbook he is going to think about which beach house to buy. And even if DC draws the line with random dates that aren't real what about the precedence that is set for the next guy who makes a 1909-s VOB off of a real 1909p and calls it a fantasy designer over-strike? Where is the line drawn? I draw mine at mint made or not . >>
Thats a great argument.
But then, many of the coins that are collected today have small nuances that make them unique. Some DDO/DDR's require good magnification to view them but they are still collectible. I know of one collector that has set his sights on collecting one of each different variety for a specific series regardless of how insignificant the variety might be. It's what he wans to do and his journey has given him some fantastic knowledge about the coins he's collecting!
Many VAM's are just as small and visually insignificant but folks collect them anyway.
Folks actually enjoy these small insignificant nuances and most are proud of the fact that they know "what" to look for.
Coin Collecting, for some, goes way beyond simply looking at the coin in hand. Most use 5x to 30x loupes. Some use 10x to 30x Microscopes to accurately identify dies and die marriages (which is yet another facet of the hobby).
It's all a part of the hobby which goes well beyond plugguing a hole in some coin album. Thats what makes us coin nerds.
Daniels coins are readily identifiable. They ALL have the same grainy satin finish. They ALL have lettering which has relief which was never used by the US Mint. All are well crafted altered fantasy pieces over struck on original coins that even a mildly intelligent numismatist could easily identify with but a little research (which we all like to do anyway since it adds value to our collections).
Will someone come across a 64D Peace Dollar and think he hit the Jackpot? Most assuradely. Just like the fellow about 5 or 6 years ago whose boss gave him an 1804 Dollar as a retirement gift! Once that story hit the news media, the real numismatists were quick to point out exactly WHY the coin was not what this fella thought it was.
There are many, many folks out there that actually "believe" that the ballistic roll of "Golden Presidential Dollars" that they paid $125 for is actually going to be worth more than $125 in a couple of years because they have "gold" in them! Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done about this except education and knowledge.
The controversy caused by the Moonlight Mints Overstruck Coin Program is well documented for current and future numismatists. I don;t think that anybody is really going to be fooled into thinking that the coins are anything other than altered fantasy pieces. But then, those that do are going to believe what they want regardless of the evidence that is presented to them.
I kinda wish I'd of bought one of these when they were available but then they are outside of my regular collecting interests.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
He just released a few new Hard Times and Alternate currency items. One is already sold out. All of his Fantasy issues have sold out.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>... Show a DC 64d to my father and he will tell you about spending those when he was a kid, if he looks it up in the redbook he is going to think about which beach house to buy. ... >>
Why would he think that ?
If he looked up 1964-D Peace Dollar in the Red Book, he wouldn't see any price listed. He would see a note that modern remakes exist. I don't have a recent Red Book here, but there might also be a note that the original 1964-D Peace Dollars are illegal to own and are subject to confiscation.
Now, the real question to think about, is whether or not your father would spend a bunch of money on a 1964-D Peace Dollar. It is one thing to think you have happened upon something valuable. It is quite another to actually spend a bunch of money.
It is amazing how many people jump to the false conclusion that anything not listed MUST be worth a fortune!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>They didn't come from China yet people still complain. >>
I'm sure they do. Just not as many as there would be if they did come from China.
That's only reasonable, there are many more people in China.
No, all kidding aside: it's a cottage industry among seasoned Americans to complain about almost anything coming out of China.
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They didn't come from China yet people still complain. >>
I'm sure they do. Just not as many as there would be if they did come from China.
That's only reasonable, there are many more people in China.
No, all kidding aside: it's a cottage industry among seasoned Americans to complain about almost anything coming out of China. >>
I bought some cottage cheese out of China. Turned out to be recycled yak butter!
<< <i>I bought some cottage cheese out of China. Turned out to be recycled yak butter!
With copious amounts of melamine.
I knew it would happen.
Simple for me.......If I had the talent, the means and the equipment that Dan Carr has I would be right there doing the same thing...............WTG Dan........
Lafayette Grading Set
BTW - this coin is sensational in hand and looks as a matte proof. I think Dan should also sell blow up pictures of them. If my photographer dad could get his act together I would frame even a good picture of it...
Go Dan!
PS - I buy only one each of the issues I like and do NOT resell. Not all for me, but I like quite a few.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>
<< <i>These things should have some word on them like "COPY" or "FAKE." Then some scam artist will have a harder time selling these things as "a rare U.S. coin that has just been discovered from an unknown hoard." It's going to happen eventually, and when it does there will be a scandal. It will be one more excuse for those who like to dump numismatics to attack us all as a bunch of sharpies and con artists.
I fully support the Hobby Protection Act, and it angers me that these things are able to fly under it. >>
The date on the coins is hard to over-look.
Has anyone documented a case where someone spent many hundreds or thousands of dollars for one of the non-sensical Chinese fakes ?
I'm not taliking about deceptive existing-date Bust dollars and the like, I'm talking about the non-sensical pieces like the "1846-CC" Seated Liberty, for example ? >>
A counterfeit coin is a counterfeit coin whether it is made in China or the U.S.
but I just dont like those "faces" on his human interpretations? They just dont look real to me.....
<< <i>
<< <i>It is precisely THIS discourse that will require the numismatic historians of future decades to publish diagnostics and historical accounts regarding the minting of these pieces. Whoever the Q. David Bowers of 2052 is, will write eloquently about Daniel Carr and the controversial opinions expressed by contemporary numismatists of OUR day, including (perhaps) publishing THIS very thread. Those future historical accounts may be positive or negative -- we can't know for sure -- but the low mintages and unique manufacture by an actual United States Coin designer -- overstriking actual coins using a retired mint press -- will create a demand for the limited supply of these unique collectibles. Like 'em or hate 'em, Daniel Carr has a good sense of how to parlay his knowledge and nexus to the coin design process to secure his place in numismatic history. The complete historical account of the "Daniel Carr Overstrikes" is a story not yet completed, and one that will not be written by ourselves. >>
Interesting commentary, and I generally agree.
Who hasn't dreamed of sneaking into a Mint and making some "neat" stuff ?
I'm fortunate that, in a sense, I get to do that - and I have a lot of numismatic fun doing it.
If I didn't enjoy what I do, I'd do something else. >>
This reply reminded me of that fella that made up the 1913 Liberty Nickels but I guess thats a different subject.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you? Your antics are lame and what ever talent is clouded in my eyes by your disregard for your actions and the ramifications to our hobby. Your core (trite) argument is built around "intent" but if someone did exactly what you do but did it to deceive what exactly is the net difference? >>
What are the "ramifications to our hobby" of which you speak? What harm comes of this to coin collectors? >>
Great question !
It is the classic slippery slope to allow private manufacturers to make facsimiles of mint made products that can only be differentiated by small nuisances that only specialists know about. Show a DC 64d to my father and he will tell you about spending those when he was a kid, if he looks it up in the redbook he is going to think about which beach house to buy. And even if DC draws the line with random dates that aren't real what about the precedence that is set for the next guy who makes a 1909-s VOB off of a real 1909p and calls it a fantasy designer over-strike? Where is the line drawn? I draw mine at mint made or not . >>
Thats a great argument.
But then, many of the coins that are collected today have small nuances that make them unique. Some DDO/DDR's require good magnification to view them but they are still collectible. I know of one collector that has set his sights on collecting one of each different variety for a specific series regardless of how insignificant the variety might be. It's what he wans to do and his journey has given him some fantastic knowledge about the coins he's collecting!
Many VAM's are just as small and visually insignificant but folks collect them anyway.
Folks actually enjoy these small insignificant nuances and most are proud of the fact that they know "what" to look for.
Coin Collecting, for some, goes way beyond simply looking at the coin in hand. Most use 5x to 30x loupes. Some use 10x to 30x Microscopes to accurately identify dies and die marriages (which is yet another facet of the hobby).
It's all a part of the hobby which goes well beyond plugguing a hole in some coin album. Thats what makes us coin nerds.
Daniels coins are readily identifiable. They ALL have the same grainy satin finish. They ALL have lettering which has relief which was never used by the US Mint.
All are well crafted altered fantasy pieces over struck on original coins that even a mildly intelligent numismatist could easily identify with but a little research (which we all like to do anyway since it adds value to our collections).
Will someone come across a 64D Peace Dollar and think he hit the Jackpot? Most assuradely. Just like the fellow about 5 or 6 years ago whose boss gave him an 1804 Dollar as a retirement gift! Once that story hit the news media, the real numismatists were quick to point out exactly WHY the coin was not what this fella thought it was.
There are many, many folks out there that actually "believe" that the ballistic roll of "Golden Presidential Dollars" that they paid $125 for is actually going to be worth more than $125 in a couple of years because they have "gold" in them! Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done about this except education and knowledge.
The controversy caused by the Moonlight Mints Overstruck Coin Program is well documented for current and future numismatists. I don;t think that anybody is really going to be fooled into thinking that the coins are anything other than altered fantasy pieces. But then, those that do are going to believe what they want regardless of the evidence that is presented to them.
I kinda wish I'd of bought one of these when they were available but then they are outside of my regular collecting interests.
The name is LEE!
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Danny, can we have another?
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>... Show a DC 64d to my father and he will tell you about spending those when he was a kid, if he looks it up in the redbook he is going to think about which beach house to buy. ... >>
Why would he think that ?
If he looked up 1964-D Peace Dollar in the Red Book, he wouldn't see any price listed. He would see a note that modern remakes exist.
I don't have a recent Red Book here, but there might also be a note that the original 1964-D Peace Dollars are illegal to own and are subject to confiscation.
Now, the real question to think about, is whether or not your father would spend a bunch of money on a 1964-D Peace Dollar.
It is one thing to think you have happened upon something valuable. It is quite another to actually spend a bunch of money.
<< <i>This Oregon Trail piece of his very nice and I actually prefer it to the MS65 1936 S piece I have. Would not sell it.
Danny, can we have another? >>
Probably not another Oregen Trail any time in the near future, although there are several other potential fantasy dates in that series.
In a couple months I'll probably start on a "1963" Kennedy half dollar for the 50th anniversary.
<< <i>It is amazing how many people jump to the false conclusion that anything not listed MUST be worth a fortune! >>
Yes, some people definitely do that when selling.
Funny how those same people don't do that when buying.