Motel buyers are killing us!

jdimmick

Just a note:

The motel buyers are absolutley killing us business wise. They have been here 8 diff weeks this year already, running 1-2 full page adds. Everyone knows how they do business. Problem I am having is the way that they do business, by making adds that give a false since of value. Printing paying up to thousands of dollars of several different types of coins they show in the add. I am not sure how to compete with this, we pay fair prices, but people are just so infactuated with the adds , and that there from out of town with big $ to spend they go down there, and sell. I have tried to run adds to compete, but it just doesnt help educate folks and ends up costing me thousands becuase I dont get the cost breaks they get. It has been so slow , that I am seriously thinking about calling it quits by years end, and closing the store. Luckily, the few customers we do get are the ones that know us and have done business with us, and know not to go down there to sell. But its far and few between. It has already been slow the past two years on the selling side as far as collector coins in this area, but the bullion and scrap gold had kept us busy. The problem is , we cant get any bullion or scrap gold in becuase everyone is selling it to them and not us. Even though we pay $1-2 back of spot , and they pay 18 -20 per oz at current spot price on silver, and they are way back on scrap gold and gold bullion coins. I have herd countless numbers of people selling to them from all different sources, including some better date coins and such for peanuts. Problem is after the fact they find out. Last crowd that was here we sent someone down with a 1909-s VDB IN PCGS 63RD and they offered him 500, then went up to 600. Also sent a 21-s walker in VF, and they offered 20 bucks.

They were here several times last year, but we still managed to have a great year, but this year its really had an effect on not just me, but the other shops as well.

BryceM

They've been in my neck of the woods this week too. They're vultures but they do a very nice job of advertising. A few full-page adds in the local paper and some radio spots bring in plenty of people looking to trade junk for gas money. These people tend to not be too highly educated about whay they have and what they're selling. I suppose competition is a part of free market setup, but these types thrive on ignorance. Education is the only way to fight it, but it's an uphill battle for the established B&Ms.

kiyote

One has to wonder, if you can't beat them, join them!

jdimmick

Actually, I am very seriously leaning that way, cant beat em, so join em.


I am seriously thinking of closing the store front by years end, but keeping the place I am at as an " appointment only type appraisal venue" then do the hotel buying thing.

I can than set up at few more shows as a way to sell the stuff taken in, an still ship the bulk stuff out the the folks we deal with like apmex, etc.

The scrap gold has dried up too becuase of the number of people buying, just about every street corner has a gold buying shop, flagging down folks. Most dont pay all that well, but people go for the quick fast most convienient place to go. The town I am in is pretty sread out,

JIm

amwldcoin

LOL,Rent a room at the hotel so you can park a car in the parking lot advertising your business. Be funny to see what they could do about that!

goose3

Jim

start a facebook page for your business and try and inform people of those scumbags and their tactics.

The facebook page is about a must in this day and age anywho.

AUandAG

Have you thought about contacting them at the show and negotiating a buy? Maybe, somehow,
you can make lemonade out of those pesky lemons. The buy it sooo far below what you would
pay, perhaps they would rather sell than haul away.

bob

jdimmick

I doubt it, most of the outfits are well connected nationally, they can go were we would go to dispose of the take in.

madax425

I get it, competition kills free markets. Do what you need to do to make your business work, spend your energy and time doing positive things for you, not whining about what the other guy does. Pay someone to hold a sign up saying you pay more,or whatever to get the message out that it would be better for people to deal with you. I am not trying to be harsh, but calling people uneducated and such is an eliteist attitude. In my field(HVAC contracting), people said the same things when public utilities got into the installation end of the business. Alot of complaining and crying foul was done by many contactors, while I stuck to my business plan, focused on my business,built my reputation and I am still here, while alot of my competition just withered away. There were many times that I just wanted to pack it in.

topstuf

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....

I tried futilely to get the LOCAL dealers to chip in for CO-OP ad.
Explaining the pros and cons and having addresses and phone numbers for a place NEAR the customer.

It was shot down (sorta) by the newspaper's refusal to do common ad.

So I suggested we CALL OURSELVES SOMETHING..... and still use our phone numbers.

You think coin dealers will cooperate?

HAHAHAHAAHAAAA

indiananationals

its not hard to fight them u find out what room they are set up at and get the room next to them and set up to buy with signs saying we pay more thaan these crooks ....after a couple times they wont be back .....

Collectorcoins

Local TV around here did an undercover story on the buying prices paid. It wasnt good! I can tell you actually I went to one with a 1913-S buffalo and asked the guy if he thought it was real. He pulled out a glass and asked his assistant to look up what a 1913-F buffalo was worth. I informed him the mintmark was on the reverse!

Walkerguy21D

Geez.....they have been camping out down here in FL all winter. They must be getting ready to head back north, as there was a real blitz the past few weeks - multiple outfits at different hotels running those full pages ads.....
But I do wonder, who do they sell the collector coins they acquire to?

truthteller

It has been so slow , that I am seriously thinking about calling it quits by years end, and closing the store.


Well, think of the bright side. If you close the store, nobody will post a "bad B&M" story of how you overcharged $2 over spot on Silver American Eagles.



TRUTH

DoubleEagle59

Jim, if you can't beat'em....join'em.

I don't mean be unethical like them, rather, set yourself up at a hotel too.

COALPORTER

<< <i>Local TV around here did an undercover story on the buying prices paid. It wasnt good! I can tell you actually I went to one with a 1913-S buffalo and asked the guy if he thought it was real. He pulled out a glass and asked his assistant to look up what a 1913-F buffalo was worth. I informed him the mintmark was on the reverse! >>



F is slang for "Frisco" Really, I wonder how many "real people" show up with coins of any real value over melt. i know we
get these adds in the news paper and they print the buy prices for coins like a 1878-S half, but really how many people with
certified coins would sell at one of those venues.?

truthteller

Have a monthly coin show at the same hotel on the same weekend as the buyers. Free advertising for you.



TRUTH

nutmeg

They are all around here in CT too. Friends and relatives have cut out the ads and thought they were doing me a favor by giving me the ads. It's a mindset reaction to a full page ad.
There isn't really any way to educate the average public. For every 10 persons you may educate, there are 10 more who don't want to learn anything and another 10 who just don't care.
A local antique dealer has an ad saying he will pay $22 for a Morgan dollar, $9 for a silver half, $4 per quarter and $1.75 for a silver dime. Heck, I am just a collector and I will pay more than that.

Shamika

<< <i>its not hard to fight them u find out what room they are set up at and get the room next to them and set up to buy with signs saying we pay more thaan these crooks ....after a couple times they wont be back ..... >>



This would probably scare them away. At the very least you'll drive up their prices.

acloco

Change your ad.

WE pay $27 per Morgan or Peace dollar if not culls.

WE pay XX per _______.

WE WANT YOUR BUSINESS!! Locally owned and operated. Member xxxxx and xxxxx.

truthteller

<< <i>Change your ad.

WE pay $27 per Morgan or Peace dollar if not culls.

WE pay XX per _______.

WE WANT YOUR BUSINESS!! Locally owned and operated. Member xxxxx and xxxxx. >>




Unfortunately, those prices will not bring people to the store. Honest prices will not attract someone's attention. You have to use phrases such as "pay up to $1000" because people see $27 and say "blech", but people see $1000 and say "wow". The motel buyers use time tested phraseology to bring the people in.


TRUTH

Buzzybest

<< <i>They are all around here in CT too. Friends and relatives have cut out the ads and thought they were doing me a favor by giving me the ads. It's a mindset reaction to a full page ad.
There isn't really any way to educate the average public. For every 10 persons you may educate, there are 10 more who don't want to learn anything and another 10 who just don't care.
A local antique dealer has an ad saying he will pay $22 for a Morgan dollar, $9 for a silver half, $4 per quarter and $1.75 for a silver dime. Heck, I am just a collector and I will pay more than that. >>



Thanks for the idea! Now I'm gonna sell my entire collection and use the cash to get myself one of them there hotel rooms!

WoodenJefferson

Take a roll of shiny new cents and round up everyone you know, at least 50 people, hand them each a penny and tell them to go get in line at the motel...synchronized so they all arrive at the same time for best effect. It has the same effect as a beaver damming up a leak in the damn dam, everything backs up.

EagleEye

Used to be you didn't need to do much more advertising than have a phone book ad. Now you need big ads every day in the local paper, TV ads and an aggressive web presence.

LotsoLuck

They have set up permanently here for the last two years. They have two hires that stand on the two major intersections (small community) with signs jumping up and down. Business must be good.

DennisH

They're here in Boise, too. Big ads and pathetic "will pay up to" prices.

Makes me so P-O'd that I think I'll go down to the local newspaper tomorrow and suggest an investigative reporting story to the editor.

nwcoast

They're all over the Seattle area as well as the suburbs. Seem to be on every street corner sometimes!
Seeing them with their sleezy signs doesn't make for a cheerful sight.

derryb

Have family and friends attend wearing T shirts that say "paying more for gold and silver" with your phone number below it.

Twinturbo

They're banned here in california.

However I do know a guy who goes to them out of state and dumps a bunch of counterfeits on them. Illegal yes, and thats why I have never done a transaction with him...

SaorAlba

Usually they don't set up in motels/hotels here - but banks. They take out full page ads in the paper, and co-op stuff with the bank so that the bank has notices of the "Coin Buyers". One time I took in some $20 Liberties to see what they would offer, I told the buyer the story that they came from my Grandmother(they really did) but I salted the lot with an 1891-CC to see if they would notice. The buyer noticed it, but priced it at the melt price of the other circulateds. No wonder they make usurious profits. Needless to say I didn't sell.

19Lyds

<< <i>Just a note:

The motel buyers are absolutley killing us business wise. They have been here 8 diff weeks this year already, running 1-2 full page adds. Everyone knows how they do business. Problem I am having is the way that they do business, by making adds that give a false since of value. Printing paying up to thousands of dollars of several different types of coins they show in the add. I am not sure how to compete with this, we pay fair prices, but people are just so infactuated with the adds , and that there from out of town with big $ to spend they go down there, and sell. I have tried to run adds to compete, but it just doesnt help educate folks and ends up costing me thousands becuase I dont get the cost breaks they get. It has been so slow , that I am seriously thinking about calling it quits by years end, and closing the store. Luckily, the few customers we do get are the ones that know us and have done business with us, and know not to go down there to sell. But its far and few between. It has already been slow the past two years on the selling side as far as collector coins in this area, but the bullion and scrap gold had kept us busy. The problem is , we cant get any bullion or scrap gold in becuase everyone is selling it to them and not us. Even though we pay $1-2 back of spot , and they pay 18 -20 per oz at current spot price on silver, and they are way back on scrap gold and gold bullion coins. I have herd countless numbers of people selling to them from all different sources, including some better date coins and such for peanuts. Problem is after the fact they find out. Last crowd that was here we sent someone down with a 1909-s VDB IN PCGS 63RD and they offered him 500, then went up to 600. Also sent a 21-s walker in VF, and they offered 20 bucks.

They were here several times last year, but we still managed to have a great year, but this year its really had an effect on not just me, but the other shops as well. >>

Have you ever considered writing an article for your local newspaper outlining the fact that these folks are paying bullion prices for what "could" be a rare coin? It could be done without slandering anyone by simply pointing out what you've pointed out here. A partial list of dates and mintmarks could be provided with brief explanatins.

mr1931S

I visited a motel buyer a few months ago.They offered less than half of what the local jewelery store offered on some gold jewelery.

I asked if they buy PCGS graded coins since their newspaper ad stated that they bought gold and silver coins.

The guy asked,"What does PCGS mean?"

TwoSides2aCoin

some lady came to me with her wheat cents. I asked her if that's all she had. She said she sold her twenty dollar gold pieces for a better ratio than what I paid. I asked what she meant. "she said, You gave me one penny extra for my pennies". "The motel buyers gave me five dollars more than my twenty dollar coins." I asked her how many she sold.


She said, "I got $250 for ten of them". They're not killing us. They're killing them.

I wanted to say: "be thankful, do you know what Joan Langbord got for hers ? "

BAJJERFAN

Didn't the OP recently decline a large purchase because the seller wanted cash?

jdimmick

Tom,

didnt the recent OP decline a large purchase becuase of cash?

Yes, I did . it happened to be a week they were not here. (besides they dont pay cash out anyway)

I refuse to purchase becuase the guy wanted large cash payout well in excess of 15k with no transaction record of anykind. I dont know about you, but I dont like to do illegal activity , the IRS scares me. I keep legit.

Tassa

Sadly, one of these hotel buying groups were in town and a local newspaper reporter covered it as an event. He actually called me about the story and I tried to explain the difference their "show" and an actual coin show. At least the reporter printed some of the advice I offered about keeping up with precious metal prices and not blindly accepting an offer.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Tom,

didnt the recent OP decline a large purchase becuase of cash?

Yes, I did . it happened to be a week they were not here. (besides they dont pay cash out anyway)

I refuse to purchase becuase the guy wanted large cash payout well in excess of 15k with no transaction record of anykind. I dont know about you, but I dont like to do illegal activity , the IRS scares me. I keep legit. >>




ok gotchya!

ebaytrader

<< <i>Tom,

didnt the recent OP decline a large purchase becuase of cash?

Yes, I did . it happened to be a week they were not here. (besides they dont pay cash out anyway)

I refuse to purchase becuase the guy wanted large cash payout well in excess of 15k with no transaction record of anykind. I dont know about you, but I dont like to do illegal activity , the IRS scares me. I keep legit. >>



Kravit and Bill Ulrich are the two biggest hotel buyers in the country and they both pay cash. A good friend of mine is a buyer for Ulrich and tells me there's not a deal too big for them to pay cash - ever. They both have access to millions of $ at the drop of a hat.

Outhaul

Just for craps and giggles, I went to one of those Jeweler's Workbench kiosks in the mall. They advertise to buy all gold. I have a 1907 $10 Indian pocketpiece that I told him was left to me as a good luck charm. I asked him how much and he dropped it on the scale, took out his calculator and said, "$115.00." When I told him that is melts for seven times that, he said, "So melt it."

Imagine all the people who just take the money. Same thing happens in the motel/hotel coin deals. They separate you from your stuff and then lowball you. If you refuse they give you a hard time. Bottom feeders, all of them.

Cheers,

Bob

Walkerguy21D

I thought the ol' 'estate buyers' in S. Florida were bad at lowballing until seeing some of these stories.
They're looking like saints now!

MadMarty

With all the cash or gold stores around here, the hotel buyers only do twice a year or so. But the cash or gold stores are frigan' EVERYWHERE!!!

ricko

The kiosk in the mall here pays cash (any amount) and pays $125/oz below spot for bullion.... No consideration for coin rarity. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Tom,

didnt the recent OP decline a large purchase becuase of cash?

Yes, I did . it happened to be a week they were not here. (besides they dont pay cash out anyway)

I refuse to purchase becuase the guy wanted large cash payout well in excess of 15k with no transaction record of anykind. I dont know about you, but I dont like to do illegal activity , the IRS scares me. I keep legit. >>



Kravit and Bill Ulrich are the two biggest hotel buyers in the country and they both pay cash. A good friend of mine is a buyer for Ulrich and tells me there's not a deal too big for them to pay cash - ever. They both have access to millions of $ at the drop of a hat. >>



So how much "cash" can a business person handle without triggering any kind of reporting requirements? Many transactions can be arranged for cash if one wants to "follow the rules".

Outhaul

<< <i>So how much "cash" can a business person handle without triggering any kind of reporting requirements? Many transactions can be arranged for cash if one wants to "follow the rules". >>



Read up on the Bank Secrecy Act.

Cheers,

Bob

VTCoins

The buyers are here in Vermont in six locations right now.

Here is what they are paying:

90% silver: $6 Face
Morgans and Peace: $6
Sterling silver: $4 per ounce
14K Gold : $7.50 per pennyweight

topstuf

<< <i>They're banned here in california.

However I do know a guy who goes to them out of state and dumps a bunch of counterfeits on them. Illegal yes, and thats why I have never done a transaction with him... >>



How many PAGES of them in today's newspaper would you like to see?

topstuf

Smart dealers would 2x2 thousands of coins from change and send old people in with wagonloads.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Local TV around here did an undercover story on the buying prices paid. It wasnt good! I can tell you actually I went to one with a 1913-S buffalo and asked the guy if he thought it was real. He pulled out a glass and asked his assistant to look up what a 1913-F buffalo was worth. I informed him the mintmark was on the reverse! >>



They just play dumb when in fact they really aren't.

Tassa

<< <i>

<< <i>Local TV around here did an undercover story on the buying prices paid. It wasnt good! I can tell you actually I went to one with a 1913-S buffalo and asked the guy if he thought it was real. He pulled out a glass and asked his assistant to look up what a 1913-F buffalo was worth. I informed him the mintmark was on the reverse! >>



They just play dumb when in fact they really aren't. >>



No-some of the people they have working for them really don't know anything about coins.

renomedphys

<< <i>They're banned here in california.

However I do know a guy who goes to them out of state and dumps a bunch of counterfeits on them. Illegal yes, and thats why I have never done a transaction with him... >>


Yes, it had occurred to me that these guys would make good marks for chinese counterfeits. Kind of a devilish thought. I wish I was surprised that someone out there is actually doing it.



<< <i>some lady came to me with her wheat cents. I asked her if that's all she had. She said she sold her twenty dollar gold pieces for a better ratio than what I paid. I asked what she meant. "she said, You gave me one penny extra for my pennies". "The motel buyers gave me five dollars more than my twenty dollar coins." I asked her how many she sold. >>


Look! Someone who knows how to misuse the word "ratio". Obviously this is the type of "educated" seller that these guys are after.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Usually they don't set up in motels/hotels here - but banks. They take out full page ads in the paper, and co-op stuff with the bank so that the bank has notices of the "Coin Buyers". One time I took in some $20 Liberties to see what they would offer, I told the buyer the story that they came from my Grandmother(they really did) but I salted the lot with an 1891-CC to see if they would notice. The buyer noticed it, but priced it at the melt price of the other circulateds. No wonder they make usurious profits. Needless to say I didn't sell. >>



So as you were walking out and going past that long line waiting to go in, why didn't you make a fuss/scene about how they tried to lowball/screw you out of your grandma's rare coin?