1797 coin,Common?

joeykoins

I have an 1797 Britain Georgian coin,I picked up a while ago.It's in a fine condition.I bought it for specifically for the date!Come'on, well over 200 years old? Common? Funny business.

ricko

Check over on the darkside.... they will have an answer... Cheers, RickO

JCMhouston

1797 was the year the Royal Mint finally gave in and allowed the Soho mint to coin copper coins, specifically the Penny and Two Penny pieces. These are called cartwheels due to their large size, they were minted with the full value of the copper less a small amount for the cost of minting. Both are considered common, but they still get pretty good prices considering how many are available.

A standard 1797 Penny



A Peck 1097 Pattern penny of 1797

PerryHall

I can't imagine an coin from 1797 being common. It may not be rare but it certainly wouldn't be common.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>I can't imagine an coin from 1797 being common. It may not be rare but it certainly wouldn't be common. >>



As JCMhouston mentioned, this is when GB started to use steam-powered presses of the Soho mint for their cartwheel pennies. Due to this, both quality and quantity increased drastically. The prices today run anywhere from $50 for VF/XF to $250+ for UNC examples and yes, most are considered common.

JCMhouston

As an example over at NGC they have graded 113 Pennies and 154 Tuppances in all colors including circulated and uncirculated. So within the British collectors group that would be considered common. Most of the patterns for that year have known populations of under 2 dozen or so and they are usually considered rare to extremely rare. Most British copper collectors use C. Wilson Pecks nomenclature even though he really did not assign numbers in his rarity ratings, so from the top you have (Pecks nomenclature - my guess on rarity) based on auction appearances I am aware of:

Exceedingly Rare - usually 1-3 known (in all grades)
Extremely Rare - usually less than 7-8 known
Very Rare - usually 15-20 known
Rare - maybe up to 50 known
Very Scarce - maybe 100-200 known
Scarce - perhaps 500 or so known
Common
Very Common

Keep in mind I don't have my Peck in front of me so maybe I forgot a ranking or two. Compared to US coins the number available may be lower for a given rarity rating. The other problem with this ranking is that it gives the same rarity ranking to a 1797 penny as say a 1912 H penny which has literally several thousand known. If you were breaking down populations by grade then maybe the 1797's in uncirculated would rate scarce or very scarce.

Usually you see at least a dozen per year of the 1797 pennies and tuppances up for auction in major US auctions every year, which is more than you would see in UK auctions. But in any grade up to 64 your could buy multiple copies every year, above 64 they are extremely tough. You also can't use the PCGS/NGC pops as a guide to absolute rarity as the great majority of these are still not grade, they are generally a good guide to relative rarity.`

Here is another example of a coin that the Peck rarity rating fails with, a 1771 Halfpenny in 66 RB that is considered common when looked at by date.

joeykoins

percyb

<< <i>I can't imagine an coin from 1797 being common. It may not be rare but it certainly wouldn't be common. >>



Me neither. I have a few pennies on my desk, but they all have Lincoln's face on them. Now those are what I call common.

joeykoins

WoW guy's,thanks for all of the info. on the "common" 200+ year old coin! Now, I feel a lot more better owning one.I bet if I were 215 years old, I wouldn't be treated like a "common" guy! Nice Photo's.

Cocoinut

Here's a PCGS MS64RD 1799 half penny. It has a pop of 12with 9 better. There are a total of 26 in MS RD grades, 37 in RB, and 52 in BN, so it's not uncommon in MS; certainly more readily available than a U.S. large cent of the 1790's.



Jim

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>I can't imagine an coin from 1797 being common. It may not be rare but it certainly wouldn't be common. >>



Me neither. I have a few pennies on my desk, but they all have Lincoln's face on them. Now those are what I call common. >>



That was my point. Go to a major show and see how many of these coins are available and see how many 1909 svdb cents are available.

PerryHall

<< <i>I bet if I were 215 years old, I wouldn't be treated like a "common" guy! >>



No--you would be treated like a zombie.

keyman64

I certainly DO NOT own anything from the 1700s.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>It may not be rare but it certainly wouldn't be common. >>

There are 52 listed right now on eBay, plus 182 closed listings. Looks to be pretty common to me.

ajaan

<< <i>That was my point. Go to a major show and see how many of these coins are available and see how many 1909 svdb cents are available. >>


If the show was in London, I bet there would be a lot more 1797 1d coins than 1909 svdb cents. The 1797 penny is common. I can go to my small monthly club show in WNY and find some, eventhough most of the dealers deal in US coins. I recently bought two of these coins, in very low grade, for about $1 each.

There was also a 2d coin of this date minted. I recently sold a VF example on eBay for $44.

1797 2d

CaptHenway

One plausible definition of "common" could be "always available for a very reasonable price." By this definition, the 1797 Cartwheel is "common."

magikbilly

context, definition..rare to me, not to you..demand..supply.

Eric

mrpotatoheadd

What about coins that are always available but are expensive? Can they be common? I don't see why not. "Common" and "Expensive" don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Analyst

I cite W. David Perkins and Q. David Bowers in regards to the rarity of 1797 dollars in my recent analysis of 1797 dollars in general, with emphasis upon the three in the Newman Collection.

U.S. Silver Dollars of 1797

ajaan

From your experience, how more common is the 1d to the 2d coin?

ajaan

Sorry, I thought this thread was on the WAC forum.

JBK

Both are "common" , but condition is key. The 2p is larger and very often/usually comes with large rim dings.

grip

Agree with JBK.

coinpro76

As most here know, something I see consistently with inexperienced collectors is the mistake that age dictates Value/Rarity, this is not the case. It is always the market, supply/demand that dictates value. I have coins millenia old I could not get 20 bucks for.... But they have value to me and that's what counts right guys?

ricko

Old coins are not necessarily valuable... a shocking fact to non-collectors... That being said, most collectors would pick up the occasional coin from the 1700's for a cheap price, just as a neat thing to have...and of course ancient coin collectors have much older coins. Cheers, RickO

joeykoins

Just to throw this out there guy's. I originally posted this thread way back in 2012. Almost to the day. Since then the 1797 "common" coin is GONE! Sold it about 5yrs. ago. LOL
One More Thing... I think I sold it for the same price I paid for it, $9

1775

Don't care if they are so called common/ original coins with no rim bumps are a wonderful looking piece of history/ non coin people are fascinated with them.