Pasco County, Florida Oppressive Coin Legislation

Seofo

Pasco County, Florida has passed a more restrictive Second Hand Dealer
law, which includes having to hold all coin purchases 30 days, along
with impossible reporting requirements. Requirements that include
taking digital pictures of every item, describe every item, and then
electronically filing all the information within 24 hours to local law
enforcement or you will be guilty of buying stolen goods. Definition
of Coin Dealer "means any person or entity who engages in the purchase,
collecting or trading in coins or other forms of minted legal tender".
As this is written this also includes collectors as well as dealers,
and also includes other personal property previously owned or used,
and will most likely close down every Coin Dealer, Coin Show, Antique
Dealer, Antique Show, Flea Market, Auction House, and Swap Shop in
Pasco County, Florida if this law is not overturned. There has also
been similiar oppressive legislation passed in Sarasota County, FL.

AUandAG

How far away is the next county???


Talk about unfriendly business practices. Do they think they just ought to have
fewer businesses? Must be a ton of thefts that is causing this to happen. As
well as a few business that are buying coins/collections that they know are
not being offered for sale by the true owner. Businesses and thieves are in
collusion?

bob

STONE

I collect $20 bills I withdraw from the ATM - does this apply to that law?

All mocking aside (and that was being partially serious), that law is
completely unfeasible.

Is there active theft of coins in Pasco County, Florida?

DAM

UFB!!

I cannot think of anything to say that would be respectful or civil.

So I'll end my reply by saying nothing.

coinkid855

Ridiculous.



-Paul

mingot

wow this law really is a bad as it sounds

astrorat

Looks like no coin show in Pasco County!

The ordinance is laughable. I seriously doubt it would stand up to a challenge in court. Regulating businesses is one thing, but legal transactions between private citizens is another.

coinkid855

<< <i>wow this law really is a bad as it sounds >>




Just read it. Apparently it applies to Flea Markets too? Those will be shut down fast, I imagine. Way too much work.



-Paul

RichieURich

Let's see, digital photos of every item within 24 hours?

So if you buy a bag of wheat cents, you need to photograph all 5000 of them within 24 hrs?

Good luck with that.

timber100

Amazing

coinkid855

<< <i> Amazing >>



...ly stupid.



-Paul

keyman64

Thank goodness for Pinellas and Hillsborough Counties!

DAM

I glanced throught the ordinance. What struck me as most disturbing is the part that requires all secondhand dealers to post a notice.

Part of what's in the notice is...

"ANY PERSON ATTEMPTING TO SELL ANY REGULATED METALS OR RESTRICTED REGULATED METALS MUST PRESENT: A CURRENT VERIFIABLE, GOVERNMENT-ISSUED PHOTOGRAPHIC IDENTIFICATION CARD, SIGNATURE, AND LEGIBLE THUMBPRINT. ...

Seller: I want to sell some wheat pennies and a few old Morgan dollars.
Coin shop: Photo ID and thumb print please.

Laughable!

Have people lost their minds?

Harry779

I have read alot of stories lately about missing brass monuments,manhole covers,funeral urns and name plates and brass bars being stolen from cell phone towers etc....
One story was about an entire brass roof stolen from a church.Missing air conditioner condensers from commercial buildings.Someone stole a brass sword from (if I remember correctly)
Lincolns crypt.
Its an epidemic.
But this wont help because the crooks will go elsewhere to sell,or melt,or cut it up.
They already have tons of requirements at the recycle/metal buying places.

Sonorandesertrat

I wonder if home foreclosures have anything to do with this---some owners are stripping their homes of fixtures, built-in appliances, etc., before turning them over to the mortgage lenders.

dogwood

Received a panic email from the huge monthly Alameda Point Antiques Fair about pending legislation here in California that has the same requirements.

Seofo

From what I have been told a large pawn broker chain in Florida is
behind all this oppressive new Second Hand Dealer Legislation,
and is pushing it in many counties and to make statewide laws
more restrictive. This will put a lot of coin dealers and coin shows out of business and then folks can take their coins to pawn shops and get 5% of what something is worth.

MsMorrisine

can you prove the money has been monetized?

MsMorrisine

what county is FUN typically in, and is there a threat there?

astrorat

<< <i>what county is FUN typically in, and is there a threat there? >>

The organization will just have to change the show's name to ... noFUN.

WhiteTornado

I lived in Pasco County FL for a few years, and this does not surprise me.

keyman64

<< <i>I lived in Pasco County FL for a few years, and this does not surprise me. >>

Pasco County is really a "backwards" type of place.

keyman64

FUN is in Orange County (Orlando)...although it was in Tampa once recently and that is Hillsborough County.

kaz

What an insane law.

LindeDad

Wonder how large a server that county has to receive digital data?

Since every dealer in the US might at some time sell something to somebody that lives in Pasco county maybe everyone needs to send them their data base of images.
Mine is only 18 gbits but wonder what the Heritage data base is like?

messydesk

I foresee a DDOS attack on the Pasco County Big Brother server by people submitting 12 MP pictures each of 3c wheat cents.

keyman64

Pasco County is sooo backwards that they do this but yet have Gun Shows almost every weekend with stuff being bought and sold without papers...not that they should be doing more to regulate guns, I am not here for that discussion....but just pointing out the stupid obvious.

BryceM

Maybe they should look closely at some of the coins. Many of them feature the word "LIBERTY" which is very different than what they're proposing. We're slowly loosing the concept of Liberty in this country.

Making lawful behavior illegal has never stopped those wishing to engage in unlawful behavior.

keyman64

The folks that lobby for the NRA are a lot stronger than those that lobby for coin collectors.

jmski52

Somebody's getting paid off.

keyman64

<< <i>Somebody's getting paid off. >>

In tha county...you are probably correct!

nickel

From Oct 1 2011 , Connecticut has a similar law . Coin shops buying stuff are supposed
to take a photo of items , purchase invoice and drivers license. To be uploaded to town police dept .
(sending reams of paper is a no-no) Town then forwards to state police data base . This may or
may not cover pawn shops , consignment stores and show dealers .

shorecoll

There are similar laws in other places, but they don't require photos of each item. If they need to crack down on fences they should just do that. The fences here are fairly well known and I've never heard of them being busted, there's probably negotiations behind the scenes though. PM me for their eBay IDs...(just kidding, I know it but don't need that hassle).

DNADave

<< <i>

Have people lost their minds? >>




Yes.

EagleEye

County Ordinance Requires Secondhand Dealers Report to Sheriff


The "small" Government crowd again.

tincup

<< <i>I foresee a DDOS attack on the Pasco County Big Brother server by people submitting 12 MP pictures each of 3c wheat cents. >>




Actually, may not be a bad idea. Give them what they want.... and they may quickly see the foolishness of it all.

lasvegasteddy

put me in the speechless crowd here...;(

notwilight

Although this is a local problem, it is an example of a worldwide trend. Governments now work in logic tight compartments and aren't afraid to make a law to address their specific issue-du-jour without regard to the havoc that the new law may wreck in other areas--especially when it comes to businesses. Governments things a business should have unlimited resources and plenty of money to pay taxes. --Jerry

pocketpiececommems

Will banks have to hold onto and take pics of any coins that come in? I think that Casinos are getting a pass on this one. How much stolen money goes through their doors? Do they have to keep track of all of the money that any one person spends there and if a person is charge with theft do they have to return it???

WTCG

Legislation like this is extremely detrimental to our industry and any others that deal in buying and selling of second hand items although I can understand why government and law enforcement want these types of regulations. Other places around the country have also tried to pass similar regulations, with mixed success.

By the way, where is Pasco County? I've never heard of that place.

ebaytrader

<< <i>Legislation like this is extremely detrimental to our industry and any others that deal in buying and selling of second hand items although I can understand why government and law enforcement want these types of regulations. Other places around the country have also tried to pass similar regulations, with mixed success. >>



Not to worry, ICTA will have all the info so we can comply with these laws.



<< <i>By the way, where is Pasco County? I've never heard of that place. >>



It's the county immediately north of the Tampa / St Pete home counties. New Port Richey & Zephyr Hills are located there.

ebaytrader

<< <i>From what I have been told a large pawn broker chain in Florida is
behind all this oppressive new Second Hand Dealer Legislation,
and is pushing it in many counties and to make statewide laws
more restrictive. This will put a lot of coin dealers and coin shows out of business and then folks can take their coins to pawn shops and get 5% of what something is worth. >>



Yuuuuup!

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>... although I can understand why government and law enforcement want these types of regulations. >>

Of course they want these regulations. How else can you keep track of what people are doing without them?

WTCG

<< <i>

<< <i>... although I can understand why government and law enforcement want these types of regulations. >>

Of course they want these regulations. How else can you keep track of what people are doing without them? >>



And when regulations like this are proposed and sold to the public under the guise of "stopping crime" widespread public support is easy to come by.

halfcentman

No one is going to follow this stupid law. They cannot arrest everyone.

jdimmick

I hate thiefs as much as anybody here, but this is a business killer.

I would literally have to close the store, as we could not survive with this type of regulation. People would not sell, if they have to be given the third degree and provide that much info to sell a few coins, gold , etc.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>And when regulations like this are proposed and sold to the public under the guise of "stopping crime" widespread public support is easy to come by. >>

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right.

<< <i>They cannot arrest everyone. >>

They're trying. From the NY Times:

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

Goldbully

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"

Thomas Jefferson

mrpotatoheadd

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

V

coindeuce

Is the county seat of Pasco in the City of FUBAR, or in the Town of AFU ?

Granted , thieves are not usually geniuses, but word travels fast enough that ill gotten goods from Pasco County are gonna go elsewhere for a bit slower turn around. This nonsense won't stem the tide one bit. But it will lower county tax revenues for the businesses that leave or shut down in the face of oppression.

coinman23885

<< <i>I foresee a DDOS attack on the Pasco County Big Brother server by people submitting 12 MP pictures each of 3c wheat cents. >>





This seems like a fitting revenge. Hopefully the residents can garner enough support to vote out the people who passed this ridiculous law.