Help..What Do I do? Claim Filed What's Next?
mexpo75
Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭
I purchased a card outside of Ebay and paid via paypal CC. The envelope came today opened it and there was no card. The bottom was taped and looked to have been opened. I spoke to seller and he had it insured. Do I file dispute with paypal or what should I do? This has not happened to me before. It was $1500. Might not be a lot to some, but to me might as well have $15,000. Thanks for all help.
PackManInNC
0
Comments
Did the package come /w signature confirmation and full insurance? Tell the seller they need to file for the insurance but it is still his duty to refund you before the insurance goes back his way typically.
This situation is a perfect example of how useless ebay is for buyers. OP is every bit as protected by using a credit card through PayPal outside ebay as he would have been for a routine ebay purchase.
<< <i>I want to know how the mail carrier or anyone handling the mail before him/her did not notice this? Are they told to ignore that or should they be bringing the package to their supervisor? Or is this an "out" for the PO to say that it wasnt like that as delivered and they will not pay the insured amount? This stinks for the PO. You are in a real tough situation, mexpo75. Something like that should be sent in a priority box anyway. Less likely for anyone to know what is in the box. Maybe when someone saw it was insured for 1500 they decided to steal the contents. Sometimes its worth the risk of no insurance and only DC so no one knows that something very valuable is in the package. >>
All good, pertinent questions. I often wonder myself whether it's riskier to insure a package for a high amount. Sometimes the best place to hide is in plain sight.
My feeling on the subject, for which I really have no evidence, is that high-dollar items with insurance and a signature required USUALLY get handled more carefully in most cases, because workers don't want to be responsible for causing damage that results in their employer having to pay out a high insurance claim.
But if the package ends up in the hands of a worker who is either desperate for money and/or disgruntled with his or her employer, the high amount of insurance can create unwanted attention. It's a double-edged sword.
Most packages that are secured well and have a proper address label don't get lost, especially when going to an address that is "deliverable" when checking the zip code on the postal website. Sometimes the best insurance is simply double-bagging the item using a box within a box, or a bubble mailer with cardboard within another larger bubble mailer.
Please remember that Paypal will hold the sellers account hostage once a claim is made. If the seller does not immediately refund, then I would make a claim.
Please make sure that you get your money back. Either by refund, or Paypal claim, or credit card chargeback. You should get your money back easily, but please make sure that you don't take 'no' for an answer.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Your case is not unhead of, Ive read at least a dozen similar experiences over the years, most always its modern cards and they can be tougher to ID (NRMT++ cards look the same). Vintage PreWar cards seem to have more unique characteristics (wear, etc.) so are easier to spot.
Heck 90% of my cards are so unique that if some con jacked my stuff he would have trouble selling them w/o getting caught.
good luck
<< <i>Id do paypal as well. He bought the insurance so thats his safety net and yours is with paypal so you should do what you have to and he can settle with the USPS. >>
+1
Plus, it was over $250 and he didn't do signature confirmation... slam dunk Paypal case in your favor. They don't care about the facts/circumstances, only the process.
1500 card and no signature required? if the seller really sent the card that was a stupid mistake on their part to ship without signature confirmation
<< <i>1500 card and no signature required? if the seller really sent the card that was a stupid mistake on their part to ship without signature confirmation >>
My first thought is that the card was never sent in the first place. I would be curious as to what the seller's reaction is when they find out that no card was in the package. Was this seller in the USA?
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Keep in mind that for 1500 they cabn't handle that locally and must go to a major center like St. Louis and then will not pay wo an investigation.
That can take 6 months
Work with the seller. I'm sure he knows the rules also.
Wheen I started sending bubble envelope...I taped with shipping taope the ends and through the middle. That way they can't tear easily to see whats inside and need a knife to ope,
Since then no problems. Send to a person if possible...not burbank sports cards. that televizes whats inside.
Anything over $100 goes in a secure box.
Sorry this happened.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Unless there's reason to believe the seller is committing some sort of insurance fraud, I don't agree that he has a responsibility to issue a refund immediately. OP has 45 days to file a PayPal INR claim and at least 60 days to file a credit card chargeback. Typically, the seller should deserve the benefit of the doubt and be given an opportunity to file an insurance claim, wait a reasonable amount of time (at least a week or two, if not a full month) to be reimbursed by the insurer, and then use those funds to issue a full refund to the buyer. The seller likely doesn't have $1500 available to issue an immediate refund, and deserves an opportunity to make things right without a formal claim being filed.
This situation is a perfect example of how useless ebay is for buyers. OP is every bit as protected by using a credit card through PayPal outside ebay as he would have been for a routine ebay purchase. >>
Absolutely incorrect advice. Buyer paid $1500 for a card, buyer received empty envelope, buyer is entitled to an immediate refund of $1500. It is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the customer, NOT the customer's responsibility to wait around until its conveinent for the seller to get his money back. The seller does NOT "deserve" any opportunity to wait until he is reimbursed by any insurance claim....thats not how business works.
Let the seller know whats going on, and file a claim if no refund is issued within 2-3 days. Once the refund is issued, THEN ship back the damaged envelope so the seller may pursue an insurance claim on his own time and dime.....not yours!
Huge bummer...GL with your situation, pls post a follow-up to let us know how this turns out.
Joe
<< <i>Absolutely incorrect advice. Buyer paid $1500 for a card, buyer received empty envelope, buyer is entitled to an immediate refund of $1500. It is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the customer, NOT the customer's responsibility to wait around until its conveinent for the seller to get his money back. The seller does NOT "deserve" any opportunity to wait until he is reimbursed by any insurance claim....thats not how business works.
Let the seller know whats going on, and file a claim if no refund is issued within 2-3 days. Once the refund is issued, THEN ship back the damaged envelope so the seller may pursue an insurance claim on his own time and dime.....not yours! >>
We'll just have to disagree. All the sellers here like to complain about how lopsided the dispute process has become in favor of the buyer, and they're right. If the seller came on here and started a thread, the responses would all be "sorry, ebay sucks for sellers, you're probably screwed, make sure to use signature confirmation next time, good luck."
In this case, OP has a slam dunk win if and when he files a PayPal claim. The seller has NOTHING. He may not have known about the signature requirement on $250+ shipments. And you think he should issue a full $1500 refund without even having the damaged bubble envelope that will be an essential piece of his insurance claim? Can you at least offer to send him some vaseline first?
I recognize that many elements of this scenario seem fishy, and it's more likely than not that it's a scam of some sort. But there are enough inexperienced people out there who simply don't know the rules or what precautions to take, and to me that means it's entirely possible for the seller to be just as innocent and just as much a victim as the buyer in this case. Short of indisputable evidence that proves beyond any shodow of a doubt that the seller is running some sort of fraudulent scam or otherwise breaking the law, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with dontippet that if the seller makes excuses or "heehaws around," a formal PayPal claim is the way to go, and sooner rather than later. On the other hand, if the seller is responsive in a good way, the buyer should work with him so they together can recover the money and make sure everyone ends up whole.
EBay was started as a person-to-person trading site where people would actually communicate with each other and make their own arrangements. It has devolved into an impersonal corporate machine based on arbitrary rules created by chimps wearing business suits. Unreasonable demands spawned by a selfish lack of consideration for others has led to unnecessary and unproductive confrontations that accomplish absolutely nothing. If OP doesn't know for sure that the seller is an enemy, he shouldn't be treated like one.
<< <i>
Absolutely incorrect advice. Buyer paid $1500 for a card, buyer received empty envelope, buyer is entitled to an immediate refund of $1500. It is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the customer, NOT the customer's responsibility to wait around until its conveinent for the seller to get his money back. The seller does NOT "deserve" any opportunity to wait until he is reimbursed by any insurance claim....thats not how business works.
Let the seller know whats going on, and file a claim if no refund is issued within 2-3 days. Once the refund is issued, THEN ship back the damaged envelope so the seller may pursue an insurance claim on his own time and dime.....not yours! >>
This.
If the seller has a solid history, give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he is communicative and the issue is progressing. eBay punishes sellers on the number of disputes they have opened against them, so I always try to work with the seller directly within reason.
That said, your refund should not be contingent upon the insurance claim. They need to make you whole up front and you need to work with them/USPS to make the seller whole after that.
Good luck getting a fast resolution on this... $1500USD ain't chump change.
Snorto~
file paypal claim. give them a shot to refund your money. if paypal does not proceed with timely refund then proceed with your credit card but give paypal a shot first
you get your money back and the seller can take care of things on his end...working with the post office on a claim. insurance was bought for the benefit of the seller, not for the buyer.
your money.
You bought a card 'outside of ebay' but used 'paypal cc'. Is that correct?
So basically ebay has nothing to do with this and Paypal is your CC company?
If that's the case I have no idea how this will work out.
Maybe someone else has did a chargeback using a PP CC before and can chime in.
Of course the above is strictly my interpretation of your opening sentence.
Good luck in any event.
<< <i>One of the most curious things....how can it have been insured for 1500 and not have required a signature confirmation? I may be wrong but isnt that required by the PO on items over 200 or 250? Smelling fishy... >>
The post office requires a signature on all packages insured for $200 and up. My postmaster says that you can do the pink signature confirmation but its redundant.
On another note, the seller will need the help of the buyer to file the claim, such as the packaging.
The seller should have already refunded your money in my opinion. File the claim and you will be refunded. It is the seller's responsibility to file the insurance claim and to recoup his loss. You should not be strung along during the process, as it can take quite a while for the claim to be completed. Keep in mind that a claim through USPS cannot be filed until 20 or 21 days has passed since the original shipping date. Hope this helps.
If paypal doesn't rule in your favor give your CC company a call.
When I see it say "insured" in large font I know a signature is required.
This envelope was delivered without Mike's signature. There's no way to force "delivered" on our scanners without a corresponding signature on the 3849 peach colored slip.
I'm thinking a mail carrier is going to be in trouble. I'll have a copy of the signature in a couple days.
The seller should refund immediately, and Mike should cooperate with the seller in his insurance claim. The longer it takes for the refund, the less of a hurry I would be in to help the seller with his claim.
<< <i>The way I read your opening sentence:
You bought a card 'outside of ebay' but used 'paypal cc'. Is that correct?
So basically ebay has nothing to do with this and Paypal is your CC company?
If that's the case I have no idea how this will work out.
Maybe someone else has did a chargeback using a PP CC before and can chime in.
Of course the above is strictly my interpretation of your opening sentence.
Good luck in any event. >>
The buyer is screwed. Transactions conducted outside of EBAY are not covered by the EBAY rules. I have been caught on this buying a 1990 leaf sosa bgs 10, that I never received. I had absolutely no recourse, except with my credit card company. And that, my friend, will be the only way to retrieve your money. This is why EBAY tells you not to conduct business off of their site. Pay Pal my try to help you recover something because they feel sorry for you, but they are not required to.
Today one can buy an item off ebay and still be protected as long as
the invoice was sent through PP, which is how this happened.
I wasn't sure but Mex has confirmed that it was a CC through PP.
Thus, items bought on the buy/sell/trade forum can be protected now.
Of course PP rules have to be adhered to.
Haven't seen you post in a while. Always nice to have a "local" postman on the boards. Welcome back.
Jeff
Looks like it was delivered and somebody signed Mike's wife's name, she said she did not sign for it. I sent Mike a scan of the sig a few minutes ago.
I would hate to be the mail carrier if he/she signed the name. Even if the carrier didn't steal the card, by signing her name the carrier is at the top of the suspect list!